The Instigator
jordyz
Con (against)
Losing
6 Points
The Contender
beem0r
Pro (for)
Winning
15 Points

universal healthcare

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/21/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 879 times Debate No: 3734
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (7)

 

jordyz

Con

Universal healthcare is not ok. It supports the bottom part of America. It is making the producers pay the nonprodurcers. In short it is punishing the rich for being rich. It is Americas subtle way of saying appologize for making money.
beem0r

Pro

First, I'd like to say that there is nothing wrong with supporting the bottom part of America. Universal healthcare is not 'punishing' the rich, it is simply rewarding them slightly less for being successful. Universal healthcare does not even require a heavily-progressive tax system, like we have now. However, any tax system taxes the rich more than the poor. I will attempt to explain why it is justifiable to allow the rich to pay more for universal healthcare than the poor would.

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Contention 1: Minimum Standard of Living

All publicly provided services, such as public roads or public schools, are in place so that no member of society, no matter how poor, is denied certain services. As we as a society become more and more prosperous, there comes a higher minimum standard of living that we should allow everyone to have. We are simply too prosperous as a nation to require people to have a certain amount of money to get an education. We are simply too prosperous as a nation to require people to have a certain amount of money if they want to travel from place to place on roads. We are simply too prosperous a nation to require people to have a certain amount of money to get the medical attention they need. Anything implemented like this does put an uneven burden on the rich. This is a necessity based on the issue it is trying to address.
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Contention 2: Supporting the Poor

The poor, if left to fend completely for themselves, will often not do so well. As a whole, this hurts our nation, lowering our productivity and standing in the global market. Public schooling, for instance, helps our nation immensely: so many people who would otherwise not be able to afford an education are able to get an education and be much more productive members of society. An uneducated worker is not a good worker (this is not true for a few job markets, where unskilled labor works fine). In the same light, an unhealthy worker is not a good worker (this is true for all job markets). Ratehr than trapping our poorest members in a cycle of poverty, universal healthcare would allow them to be as productive as they can, and they would therefore be much more able to support themselves and their families. America prospers as a whole when all our workers are prosperous. Thus, even the rich would eventually be better off because of universal healthcare.
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Contention 3: Magnanimosity

'Tis selfishness for the rich to only look out for their own interests. In order that we all prosper as a collective, the strong must be magnanimous to the weak; the rich must be magnanimous to the poor. I realize that the virtue of it no longer exists if it is forced by a tax, but I am not arguing that they should be magnanimous because it's virtuous. They should be magnanimous because the collective must look out for all its members' needs. It is the government's job to protect its citizens and insure their well being, and if that means making the rich pay more than the poor for the same service so that all might have it, then so be it.
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I have provided a few threads of reason for why universal healthcare is a good idea, despite the inherently higher burden on the rich. That'll be all for round 1, good luck to my opponent and may this be a good debate.
Debate Round No. 1
jordyz

Con

Selfish? Is it selfish for the rich to look after only their own needs? Well what about the poor? The poor dont care about anyone elses needs? Is it selfish to spend the money that you have earned, that you are entitled to, in the way that you want? Is that what is considered selfish? Also my oppenent says that it is the governments resposibility to take care of citezens. I think that the general consenses of Americans today is not what can I do for my country, but rather what can my country do for me. Universal healthcare will be the ultimate proof of this.
beem0r

Pro

My opponent only has qualms with one of my contentions, contention 3. The rest remain standing, completely unscathed. I will now defend contention 3.

My opponent claims that it is not selfishness to only look after your own needs. However, this is the very definition of selfishness. The poor do not have the ABILITY to look after anyone else's needs; they're the one's who NEED the help.

Since his only problem with contention 3 was the fact that I equated only looking after your own needs with selfishness, I have now defended that point.

Next, he notes that I said that a government is responsible for taking care of its citizens. He offers no criticism of this, and simply notes that most people agree with me ("what can my country do for me").

My case still stands.
Debate Round No. 2
jordyz

Con

jordyz forfeited this round.
beem0r

Pro

My opponent has forfeited, which means one very simple thing. I trust that ye voters will be able to figure it out.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by beem0r 8 years ago
beem0r
Oh wait, that was Colonel Sanders.
Posted by beem0r 8 years ago
beem0r
And here I always thought it was with a chicken wing.
Posted by Kleptin 8 years ago
Kleptin
"My opponent has forfeited, which means one very simple thing. I trust that ye voters will be able to figure it out."

Yes...YES...It means...

Colonel Mustard...in the Library...with a candlestick!
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by Logical-Master 8 years ago
Logical-Master
jordyzbeem0rTied
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Vote Placed by pitteas 8 years ago
pitteas
jordyzbeem0rTied
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Vote Placed by attrition 8 years ago
attrition
jordyzbeem0rTied
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Vote Placed by jordyz 8 years ago
jordyz
jordyzbeem0rTied
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Vote Placed by Oolon_Colluphid 8 years ago
Oolon_Colluphid
jordyzbeem0rTied
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Vote Placed by JTSmith 8 years ago
JTSmith
jordyzbeem0rTied
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Vote Placed by beem0r 8 years ago
beem0r
jordyzbeem0rTied
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