The Instigator
dairygirl4u2c
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
harrytruman
Con (against)
Winning
9 Points

voting for trump is irresponsible

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
harrytruman
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/2/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 414 times Debate No: 95166
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (2)

 

dairygirl4u2c

Pro

voting for trump is ureasonable

trump wants to cut taxes and add another trillion a year to the deficit. our debt is becoming a national security issue. he wants to repeal obamacare with no real alternative to replace it. people with medicaid expansion would no longer have healthcare, millions won't have subsidies to make care affordable, and insurance companies won't be able to afford covering people with preexisting conditions. (they can't afford them to a large extent with the subsidies and mandate, but apparently trump wants neither of these things so that'd make the problem worse)

trump's views of immigration are okay but with his flip flop on amnesty, he's not far away from clinton. he's okay on trade but at least rhetoric wise he's the same as clinton.

those are the major things. clinton is a status quo candidate. the only real difference is taxes and healthcare, and on those trump is irresponsible. thus anyone who would vote for him is being irresponsible.
harrytruman

Con

Let’s examine my opponent’s claims:

“Trump wants to cut taxes and add another trillion a year to the deficit.”

No, cutting taxes won’t necessarily increase the debt; in fact this would be the most responsible option for the long term, cut both taxes and spending. In fact, if we abolish all of these Socialist programs we could lower taxes to a flat rate of 25%, increase military spending, improve our education system, as well as pay off the national debt in 8 years, that’s how much money we are wasting with socialism.

“He wants to repeal Obama care with no real alternative to replace it. People with Medicaid expansion would no longer have healthcare, millions won't have subsidies to make care affordable, and insurance companies won't be able to afford covering people with preexisting conditions. (They can't afford them to a large extent with the subsidies and mandate, but apparently trump wants neither of these things so that'd make the problem worse)”

Actually Trump has a plan that he intends to replace Obama Care with, I haven’t read over it yet but I’m told it’s great. Either way, even if he didn’t have an alternative plan, it wouldn’t really matter, Obama Care is so bad that killing it and replacing it with nothing would still put us in a better position than we are now.

Also, insurance companies are raking in billions, they won’t have any financial issues.


“Trump’s views of immigration are okay but with his flip flop on amnesty, he's not far away from Clinton. He’s okay on trade but at least rhetoric wise he's the same as Clinton.

“Those are the major things. Clinton is a status quo candidate. the only real difference is taxes and healthcare, and on those trump is irresponsible. thus anyone who would vote for him is being irresponsible.”

The same as Clinton? Let me tell you a little something about Clinton; she is a lying treasonous war criminal, she sold US military secrets to china, she let 500,000 Iraqi children starve to death, she laughed about Kaddafi getting tortured to death, she had repeatedly tried to instigate nuclear war with Russia, she isn’t even the legitimate nominee of the DNC, and she murdered JFK Jr.

You cannot pick a worse candidate than Hillary Clinton because there is no such candidate. Voting for trump is the most responsible thing you can do because Clinton is the worst possible candidate, Johnson is a Hillary plant who would rather pretend as though our problems are not there rather than address them, and Stein- well I like Stein but the problem is she doesn’t believe in the 2nd amendment and she can’t win.

I cannot support someone who is going to take a pledge to “protect uphold and defend the constitution” if they don’t believe in the constitution. The point is Trump is the only responsible pick.

Debate Round No. 1
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

this shows that revenue has gone down with tax cuts and up with tax increases
http://www.factandmyth.com...

it's a very simple idea, cut taxes, get less tax revenue. apparently con beleives in voodoo economics where that kind of common sense doesn't make sense.

con then goes onto a tangent about how we can get flat taxes and do away with socialist programs. that doesn't have anything to do with trump though, because he desn't want to do that stuff.

con doesn't even bother reading trumps health plan, he just takes trump at his word when he says things will be "great" etc. but all his plan says is things like opening up interstate plans so you can buy insurance across borders. con also doesn't respond to my specific examplels of why obamacare as gone would be a bad thing..... people will die and have unaffordable healthcare or none at all. that's irresponsible.

con then goes on to list a bunch of conspiracy theories about clinton, showing that con will believe anything. might i sell you a bridge i have for sale?
i might believe con if he had credible sources, but he doesn't, and the stuff he spews is so obviously made up or baloney that i it was true it'd be common knowledge or she wouldn't be getting the support.

i gotta stop debating teenagers.
harrytruman

Con

First of all I never said that lowering taxes increases revenues, though in the long term this is true- for example, if you taxes people 100% there wouldn't be ay moremoney in circulation anymore, so then ta revenues would be 0 from then on. Besides, just because Uncle Sam gets more money does NOT mean that overal revenues have increased. Taxes just get rid of work incentives, why would I go out and earn more money if I end up with less money after taxes? If you could earn 10,000$ but pay 20% taxes, you would have no reason to earn 12,000$ and pay 40% taxes, because, even though you earned 2,000$ more, you end up with 2,800$ less than last month after taxes. Getting rid of work incentives WILL reduce revenue since people earn less money.
Second of all, getting rid of Obamacare will NOT leave people without healthcare. Everyone wo uses Obamacare really wants to get off of it, all it does is relace your current healthcare plan with the sh*ttiest one imaginable, then charge you money for it, on top of taxing you to subsidize it, and it inflates the healthare cost.
So let's imagie a hypothetical scenario; tons of people are working with obamacare, then obamacare is repealed, they will most likely go get their previous healthcare plans that they had before obamacare, which will create competition amongst insurance companies. Even if you cannot afford another plan, it wouldn't matter; you would be better off paying out of pocket that with obamacare.
Third of all, healthcare isn't that compecated, the industry behaves like any other industry, so Trumps plan doesn't really have to do much. Also I have now read his plan and its pretty basic,
https://www.donaldjtrump.com...
This will work, you don't have to be an expert to tell that since this is a really basic system.

Clinton Conspiracies:
These aren't conspiracy theories, we all know this:
1. Hillary Clinton sold US military secrets to China:
http://www.nytimes.com...
2. Hillary Clinton let 500,000 Iraqi children starve to death (this is an exerpt from a news story)
https://www.youtube.com...
3. Hillary Clinton laughed about Kidaffi getting tortured to death:
https://www.youtube.com...
4. Hillary Clinton wants to instigate war with Russia:
http://www.washingtontimes.com...
5. Hillary Clinton isn't even the legitimate nominee of the Democratic Party:
That was Bernie, he won the primaries they just committed election fraud and gave it to Hilary Clinton.
6. Hillary Clinton killed JFK Jr:
http://www.morningnewsusa.com...
Debate Round No. 2
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

not wasting my time on this. sorry.
harrytruman

Con

My opponent has dropped all of my points, as well as forfeited the debate, that means that I WIN.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by whiteflame 6 months ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: ILikePie5// Mod action: NOT Removed<

4 point to Con (Conduct, Arguments). Reasons for voting decision: Conduct goes to Con, because Pro said "i gotta stop debating teenagers." S/G in my viewpoint is tied because although Pro didn't capitalize, it didn't affect the comprehension of the argument. Arguments go to Con as he refuted and defended a majority of his arguments while Pro failed to. Sources are even because both used credible sources supporting their arguments. Pro basically forfeited the debate and that is a reason why Con has won the debate.

[*Reason for non-removal*] This debate is over 1 month out from the end of the voting period, and as such, is beyond the statute of limitations for moderation.
************************************************************************
Posted by whiteflame 8 months ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: Tree_of_Death// Mod action: NOT Removed<

5 points to Con (Conduct, S&G, Arguments). Reasons for voting decision: Conduct-Pro essentially forfeited the debate in the last round, as well as using several insults such as "I gotta stop debating teenagers." S&G-Pro did not capitalize any of her sentences and had several fragmented or run-on sentences. Arguments-Pro dropped almost all of Con's arguments, and Con responded quite well to all of Pro's. Con gives valid economic arguments pertaining to flat taxes and so forth, whereas Pro just vaguely states that Trump will cause the deficit to go up "a trillion a year" without backing it up. Although I disagree with his opinions on socialism, taxes, and Obamacare, Con presented a valid and well-reasoned argument on each of these issues.

[*Reason for non-removal*] The vote is sufficient, though the explanation for S&G is borderline. While sentence structure and capitalization can impede reading comprehension, it should be clear that these were pervasive enough to do so. Nonetheless, that point allocation is supported well enough, and the remainder of the vote justifies the other points awarded.
************************************************************************
Posted by ILikePie5 8 months ago
ILikePie5
I can understand people not supporting Trump, but what I don't understand is why you would support Hillary. She is a disgrace to Americans being corrupt and totally bought off, not to mention a criminal.
Here's a short list of what Hillary has done:

-Hillary Clinton put national security at risk whether you like it or not.
-Hillary Clinton wants to bring in 550% more refugees even though ISIS and senior officials have said that operatives will infiltrate.
-Hillary Clinton accepts money from nations that are anti-LGBT and anti-Women. Hillary Clinton is owned by lobbyists and donors.
-The State Department under Hillary Clinton rejected 600 individual requests for security in Benghazi.
-Hillary Clinton lied to the families of the fallen soldiers in Benghazi and called them liars.
-Hillary Clinton is laying a siege upon the 2nd Amendment. Hillary Clinton wants to raise taxes on the middle class.
-Hillary Clinton gave Russia Uranium. Bill Clinton along with Hillary signed NAFTA and WTO which led to the massacre of jobs.
-Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq War and later withdrew the troops which led to the formation of ISIS.
-Hillary Clinton called for the overthrow of Ghaddafi which led to the destablization of Libya.
-Hillary Clinton brought Iran to the negotiating table which led to the Iran Deal which is a disaster.
-Hillary Clinton knowingly defended a child rapist
-Hillary Clinton used Pay to Play during term as SoS
-Hillary Clinton supports the BLM organization that chants "Death to Cops"
-Who was caught lying about her crowd sizes? Hillary Clinton

But to her supporters......What difference does it make?
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by ILikePie5 8 months ago
ILikePie5
dairygirl4u2charrytrumanTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct goes to Con, because Pro said "i gotta stop debating teenagers." S/G in my viewpoint is tied because although Pro didn't capitalize, it didn't affect the comprehension of the argument. Arguments go to Con as he refuted and defended a majority of his arguments while Pro failed to. Sources are even because both used credible sources supporting their arguments. Pro basically forfeited the debate and that is a reason why Con has won the debate.
Vote Placed by Tree_of_Death 8 months ago
Tree_of_Death
dairygirl4u2charrytrumanTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct-Pro essentially forfeited the debate in the last round, as well as using several insults such as "I gotta stop debating teenagers." S&G-Pro did not capitalize any of her sentences and had several fragmented or run-on sentences. Arguments-Pro dropped almost all of Con's arguments, and Con responded quite well to all of Pro's. Con gives valid economic arguments pertaining to flat taxes and so forth, whereas Pro just vaguely states that Trump will cause the deficit to go up "a trillion a year" without backing it up. Although I disagree with his opinions on socialism, taxes, and Obamacare, Con presented a valid and well-reasoned argument on each of these issues.