The Instigator
ickda
Pro (for)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
Ore_Ele
Con (against)
Winning
34 Points

weed

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
Ore_Ele
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/23/2012 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,253 times Debate No: 26517
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (5)

 

ickda

Pro

sigh, no trolls, Because of them I had to redo this debate.

Now I believe will help with the mind body and spirit. I believe it has great use in the medical system and that it should not be illegal
Ore_Ele

Con

I thank my opponent for this debate. Since I will get the final argument, I shall allow my opponent to go first and present their case in R2.

I do want to clarify for the voters. The topic is only "weed" however, based on the previous debate [1] that my opponent referenced and their statements on "it should not be illegal" it is reasonable to conclude that the debate is about the legality of recreational marijuana use.

I await my opponent's argument.

[1] http://www.debate.org...
Debate Round No. 1
ickda

Pro

No I thank you for reading my last one

weed is not a drug, a dug has at least one or two side affect that are bad for you. My ref? Go grab a bottle and read the warning label.

weed? The only bad one is the panic attack. Make it legal and 80/cent of it will be gone, The rest is for those pron to panic attacks and those that smoke medical and hydro.

Now the ones that suffer panic attack can still benefit weed.

how you might ask? Easy if they can learn how to meditate they may be3 able to divert there thout process over time and over come there fear or what ever that may course the attack.

Why do I think this okay here my thinking.

Okay read any thing about meditatoun........ Good you done? Yeas okay, know weed help amplifies or strengthen ones ability to focus the mind in ways that may help them open doors that one may not have ether whys have access to.


that is about them

weed is a tool t6hat can be treated like a drug but a lot of what inside the plant are already inside of are body.
Ore_Ele

Con

I would like to thank my opponent for their arguments. My opponent's argument can be summed up in three points, 1) not a drug, 2) medication, and 3) good for the mind.

1) Marijuana is a drug.

My opponent provides an interesting definition of "drug." While I do reject my opponent's definition, it is important to know that regardless, my opponent contradicts himself in the next paragraph when he admits that there is at least one bad effect of it, panic attacks. However, I propose referring to WM for a real definition.

Drug [1] - "something and often an illegal substance that causes addiction, habituation, or a marked change in consciousness."

Since my opponent has already admitted that there is a change in consciousness, this definition also shows that it is a drug.

2) Medication and health

Marijuana can be used as medicine, as can snake venom, radiation, or nearly any other substance. This does not mean that any of them are safe for general private consumption. Let us go over the health issues associated with Marijuara. First, in regards to how THC interacts with the body, this meta-source should suffice [2]. The health risks in short term range from, impaired memory and judgement, to reduced reaction time, to accelerated heart rates [3]. And the long term includes dependency, lung damage, depression (as well as a number of other disorders), weakened immune system, and decreased cognitive ability [3][4][5].

As with any medicine, it is only beneficial when used properly. And as with any medication, the public has shown time and time again, that they cannot accurately and safely self-medicate.

3) Effects on the mind

This can actually trace back to the last round. The effects on memory, and long term effects of social disorders and impacts on cognitive skills shows that it does not yield a net positive. While it does cause one to "think differently" that does not equate to a positive or something good.

I shall pass this back to my opponent to address these points.

Thank you,

[1] http://www.merriam-webster.com...
[2] http://www.debate.org...
[3] http://www.drugabuse.gov...
[4] http://www.livestrong.com...
[5] http://www.drugabuse.gov...
Debate Round No. 2
ickda

Pro

thanks for the links, tho I wont bother with the .gov links. the government keep running there fear campaigns
weed dos not cuss depression ether most use for weed are qouit a few but the one a the few that a lot of my friends use it for are stress relatid ishuse and some me included use it for whin they became depressed
allso the def for drug only wins 2 out of three
by your use of these def meaning the one change of thout is that meditation used by the monk is a typ of drug cens long term meditation is meant to bring you closer to god and And I repeat these if I could it is to help you change you psyche so that you may git rid of behaver that are bad for you like obsession over worldly goods.
juist look at this Buddha link (!)
(1 )
http://www.psychologytoday.com...
http://www.adolphus.nl...
so by what you sad medition is a drug right?
Oh yay my panic attack thing you tride to use aginst me smart tack what I say out of context to cunfuse the reders
I sad if it were legil it would remove alot of thes attack from pepole becuse the resine most have these attacks are subconsciously afraid of bing caught and jailed for possession and medical and hydro grade weeds, now reggy don't normally cause these attacks if you not already porn to the attack you self. pleas don't tack my stuff out of context.
now the accelerated heart rate you quoted I ain't going to ague that but i ask going to ague this if you can walk for 30 minuets no problem then you can smoke weed, because the increase heart rate is the same as if you went for a 30 minute walk.
okay the short team memory loss can be a good thing i watched a video a few years back cant remember the name of it at the moment but is show and talk about how this may be the resin most artist day the can think better on weed and help them think better because the present isn't clouding you mind just the here and now.
I drive better on weed also less tens less nerves and I can react better and faster to some thing because whine I am high time feels slower sometimes allowing me more tim then normal to react to thing tho this only happens whine i perceive danger but cents I am more forces also I tend not to miss anything any way.
Ore_Ele

Con

I thank my opponent for their last round. I have a few things to bring up.

1) My opponent dismisses any ".gov" sources. This is an Ad Hominem fallacy against the source, it would be like me rejecting any of his sources because the are Pro-marijuana. Regardless of the what their motives may be (which no evidence was presented regardless), the science stated in them is accurate. If my opponent wishes to argue that they are not, they still have 2 rounds to do so.

2) My opponent attempts to argue the definition, however I've already showed that it fits the definition by his definition. He also fails to present any solid argument against the dictionary. He also does not present any support for the claim that meditations causes a change in conscious. MRI results show only minimal change and in parts of the brain that do not mark an actual change in consciousness that drugs do [1][2]. My opponent does present links that show that long term meditation can cause a physical difference in the brain, but a long term physical difference is not the same as a conscious change after a single use.

3) My opponent claims that I took him out of context. He claimed that "...thes attack from pepole becuse the resine most have these attacks are subconsciously afraid of bing caught and jailed for possession..." however, this claim was never made in his R2.

4) I must apologize, when my opponent said "meditatoun" in their R2, I thought they meant "medication." This is the importance of proper spelling, to avoid confusion. However, this clarification does not change the facts presented that Marijuana harms one's reasoning and memory, it does not strengthen it like my opponent says.

5) Marijuana and the Heart. My opponent claims that the heart rate change is only the same as a 30 minute walk. However, that is completely ignoring the issue at hand. It compounds on to anything they do. Meaning if they get hungry and decide to walk down to 7-11, their heart rate will be 20-50% [3] higher than if they hadn't. This can raise the heart rate over 150 bpm, which can be stressful on the heart and prolonged exposure can weaken the heart.

6) My opponent presents anecdotal evidence about their driving. Something that cannot be confirmed, and even if it could, it is not evidence of anything (just like saying I can drive perfectly fine while drunk does not mean that alcohol does not impair judgement). Studies on all levels (from scientific studies, to driving simulations, to traffic fatality rates) show that marijuana has a negative effect on driving skills [4]. If we choose to believe my opponent's unsupported claim, they are nothing more than an anomaly and outlier, not even close to the rule.

[1] http://multiply.com...
[2] http://www.gophoto.it...
[3] http://www.cannabismd.net...
[4] http://adai.washington.edu...
Debate Round No. 3
ickda

Pro

ickda forfeited this round.
Ore_Ele

Con

I will extend my arguments and hope that my opponent comes back for his final round.

Thank you,
Debate Round No. 4
ickda

Pro

sorry I wass gone for last round if you like i can chaling you to a nother one later it late here and time is low and I feel like one round wont cap this all in.
1st mediton does read anthing the monks have on it, it to chang you vewe of the would and I have shown evidence but if I must I will show more if you accccept a round 2 of of sort later.
2cnd the usa govermint hads weed as a levil 1 drug listid as more dangeris then cocain, a drug that pp will sell there live to gite more of or kill for. this is commin info for pp that evin bother to pay attanchin to anything drug relatid and from my vew of some of you debate I see you have a intrest in it wather or not you use or a family abuse one whay or a nother you seem to have some care nagitive or not.
so then you have there over three decade smear campain on the drug. and miss I now errr my self includid ahhh 5 pepole that smoke and drive. none of them have been in a acident in there lives i just got done smoking with my dad in his car driving down to the Detrit and he had no problime if anything he wass more aware of thing. now 1 otr 2 pp is nothing for a test you need more but for crying out lode have or more of my frind smoke and drive that is good avidence it show what a normile smoker can do if one or two had insidence then mabey you would have something in my old debat with that troll I dropt a few links read them it 5 am now and i am falling a sleep other whys i would do it my self for you but i not evin going to spell check this sorry.
allso the gove tends to give unusuling hiigh amount of thc in the test drug higher then normorll agin i think it in thos link in my old one. if you wont to do a nother with me later just saY SO if that the case i will post them in round one plus the ones frome here for the other plus a brife recew of this.
allso some time the test drug can be umm icant spell that word so um you now win you eat or swalowe somthing orile and that give pp a diffrint high then what some or ised to.
aggin the merey thing is short term and gos away whin you are not high and allso can vering for some peple weed is not a drug it has the same things in it as the humion boding agine i can go further on this later if you wish.
driving is some what like playing a video game by the whay sand if you say no to that then think of this on a game you ave a controler andascreen right? a car you aver a streering weel and you brake and gass and the shifter pluse the emergincuung break. oh yah and a wind sheald.
pot head tend to be beeter gamers cos of somthing to do with there refelix and timeing in game or somthing agin I can go deeper in to this allso if we do go on i try to curb my crapping speeling but for now i need sleep so good night I hop to read in you post that you wish to carig this on.
Ore_Ele

Con

I have to apologize, I cannot make out what my opponent is saying, however, since this is the last round, I will only summarize so far.

From what I can make out, my opponent has just restated his case yet again, without providing any sources or evidence. He provides more anecdotal evidence, despite the links provided that show the statistics both in lab tests and real world numbers.

I can only move this to the voters now.

Thank you
Debate Round No. 5
No comments have been posted on this debate.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by utahjoker 4 years ago
utahjoker
ickdaOre_EleTied
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Total points awarded:16 
Reasons for voting decision: point for trying
Vote Placed by muzebreak 4 years ago
muzebreak
ickdaOre_EleTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Con clearly won this debate. Pro was nearly incomprohensible. He commited an Ad-Hominem against a source, and provided no real arguments in favor. In fact, the entire resolution is quite unclear. Pro forfeited a round, and generally did horribly in this debate.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 4 years ago
RoyLatham
ickdaOre_EleTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro incoherent, forfeited, ad did not define a clear resolution.
Vote Placed by Muted 4 years ago
Muted
ickdaOre_EleTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro forfeited. Pro's spelling was bad. Pro did not really contend with Con's rebuttals, and I'm giving Con the sources because Pro cited Yahoo.
Vote Placed by TrasguTravieso 4 years ago
TrasguTravieso
ickdaOre_EleTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: It was so difficult to read ickda's posts due to bad grammar and brick wall layout I am quite sure I missed some of what he said. I am confident it was just as poorly argumented as what I did read, however. Conduct-Forfeit Sp/gr-Terrible in pro Arguments-Cogent and supported by facts Sources-Con's sources were altogether more relevant