The Instigator
donkey
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
DanMGTOW
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points

what evidence

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
DanMGTOW
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/1/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 188 times Debate No: 94335
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (1)

 

donkey

Con

>>that is your opinion, i support your right to believe in fairy tales.
maybe someday you will care enough to look for evidence to support your claims, if you expect others to accept your claims.<<

Maybe one day you will care enough to present the evidence that Christianity is a fairy tale. Your opinion is not evidence. I do support your right to believe in somethng for which you have no evidence.
DanMGTOW

Pro

I believe that Christianity is a fairy tale, because Christianity is based on a book which contains talking animals, magic, unicorns, dragons, etc. (all of which were in the Harry Potter series).
There is also no physical evidence for the resurrection of Jesus ( if the stories of Jesus were based on a real person).
My argument is very simple.
If my opponent is saying that Christianity is true, then he/she has the burden of proof.
so i only have a few questions ( a simple yes or no will do).
1. Do you have any evidence (other than stories and hearsay) that the resurrection actually happened?
2. Do you have any evidence (other than stories and hearsay) that any of the above (talking animals, magic, unicorns, dragons) where actual events, and not delusions, tricks, or stories?
3. Are you claiming that the Bible is a reliable source of information?
Debate Round No. 1
donkey

Con

>>I believe that Christianity is a fairy tale, because Christianity is based on a book which contains talking animals, magic, unicorns, dragons, etc. (all of which were in the Harry Potter series).<<

First of all the Bible doe snot mention unicorns. Serpents and dragons are used as metaphors to teach spiritual truth. Only one animal in the Bible talked. God gave it that ability to teach its master a lesson. For One who can speak the universe into being, causing an animal to speak would be a piece of cake. There is no mention of magic in the Bible. I assume you are speeking of miracles. Miracles are performed by the power of God, no magic involved.

>>There is also no physical evidence for the resurrection of Jesus ( if the stories of Jesus were based on a real person).<<

Of course there is. You just don't accept the evidence. His resurrection has been reported in the Gospels by men who considered it a sin to lie. What is your basis for rejecting their accounts?

My argument is very simple.
If my opponent is saying that Christianity is true, then he/she has the burden of proof.
so i only have a few questions ( a simple yes or no will do).<<

If you say it is not true, the burden of proof also have the burden of proof. I accepet wht I beleive the same way you accept what you believe---by faith alone.

>>1. Do you have any evidence (other than stories and hearsay) that the resurrection actually happened?<<

No. Do you have any evidence the stories are not true?

2. Do you have any evidence (other than stories and hearsay) that any of the above (talking animals, magic, unicorns, dragons) where actual events, and not delusions, tricks, or stories?<<

I have already addressed that question.

>>3. Are you claiming that the Bible is a reliable source of information?<<

Yes. I can prove more of what it says than you can prove that what is says is not reliable.
DanMGTOW

Pro

Thank you so much, for making it so easy for me to show you how wrong you are.
Apparently you didn't even bother to do a simple word search to find out what I was referring to, before you decided to show off your ignorance.
"First of all the Bible doe snot mention unicorns."
I noticed that you didn't bother to say which version of the bible you are using
So maybe your version of the bible reads differently.
however the KJV (King James Version 1611) mentions unicorns several times.
Numbers 23:22
God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.
Numbers 24:8
God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn: he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows.
Deuteronomy 33:17
His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.
Job 39:9
Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?
Job 39:10
Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee?
Psalms 22:21
Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
Psalms 29:6
He maketh them also to skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young unicorn.
Psalms 92:10
But my horn shalt thou exalt like the horn of an unicorn: I shall be anointed with fresh oil.
Isaiah 34:7
And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org...

"Only one animal in the Bible talked."
Talking serpent - genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Talking (donkey)- numbers 22:28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the (donkey), and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?
29 And Balaam said unto the (donkey), Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee.
30 And the (donkey) said unto Balaam, Am not I thine (donkey), upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? And he said, Nay.

" There is no mention of magic in the Bible. I assume you are speeking of miracles. Miracles are performed by the power of God, no magic involved."
Here are 4 examples of magicians using magic ie. enchantments
Exodus 7:11
Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.
Exodus 7:22
And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said.
Exodus 8:7
And the magicians did so with their enchantments, and brought up frogs upon the land of Egypt.
Exodus 8:18
And the magicians did so with their enchantments to bring forth lice, but they could not: so there were lice upon man, and upon beast.

>>There is also no physical evidence for the resurrection of Jesus ( if the stories of Jesus were based on a real person).<<

Of course there is. You just don't accept the evidence. His resurrection has been reported in the Gospels by men who considered it a sin to lie. What is your basis for rejecting their accounts?
I reject their accounts because all they have is hearsay, maybe you can believe stories without evidence, but I require evidence.
The same reason why I reject accounts of alien abductions and big-foot sightings.

"If you say it is not true, the burden of proof also have the burden of proof. I accepet wht I beleive the same way you accept what you believe---by faith alone."

Wrong, the burden of proof is on the person saying something is true, not on the person saying they don't believe their claims. Also I don't have any faith. Faith is believing something without evidence, if you had evidence then your faith would be unnecessary.
The same reason that i don't have to prove that Santa Claus isn't real, the burden of proof is on the person claiming Santa is real.

"No. Do you have any evidence the stories are not true?"
Yes, I have almost 40 years of experience and never saw a unicorn, magic, talking animal, or dragon in real life.
If you think testimonial evidence is valuable, then you have no sound reason to discard my testimony.

"I can prove more of what it says than you can prove that what is says is not reliable."
It doesn't matter if 90% of a book were true, if 10% is unreliable, then the entire book is in unreliable.

"Of course there is (physical evidence for the resurrection). You just don't accept the evidence. His resurrection has been reported in the Gospels by men who considered it a sin to lie.
I didn't claim they lied, but they could be tricked or hallucinating, or they could have thought lying was for the greater good.
If there is physical evidence for the resurrection, then present it, then i'll try and explain why I accept or reject that evidence.

You should focus on evidence for the resurrection, since that is a key element that Christianity is based on.
If you can't provide evidence for the resurrection actually happened, then you have no case.
Debate Round No. 2
donkey

Con

Thank you so much, for making it so easy for me to show you how wrong you are.
Apparently you didn't even bother to do a simple word search to find out what I was referring to, before you decided to show off your ignorance.
"First of all the Bible doe snot mention unicorns."
I noticed that you didn't bother to say which version of the bible you are using
So maybe your version of the bible reads differently.
however the KJV (King James Version 1611) mentions unicorns several times.
Numbers 23:22
God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.
Numbers 24:8
God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn: he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows.
Deuteronomy 33:17
His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.
Job 39:9
Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?
Job 39:10
Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee?
Psalms 22:21
Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
Psalms 29:6
He maketh them also to skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young unicorn.
Psalms 92:10
But my horn shalt thou exalt like the horn of an unicorn: I shall be anointed with fresh oil.
Isaiah 34:7
And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org......

"Only one animal in the Bible talked."
Talking serpent - genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Talking (donkey)- numbers 22:28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the (donkey), and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?
29 And Balaam said unto the (donkey), Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee.
30 And the (donkey) said unto Balaam, Am not I thine (donkey), upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? And he said, Nay.

" There is no mention of magic in the Bible. I assume you are speeking of miracles. Miracles are performed by the power of God, no magic involved."
Here are 4 examples of magicians using magic ie. enchantments
Exodus 7:11
Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.
Exodus 7:22
And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said.
Exodus 8:7
And the magicians did so with their enchantments, and brought up frogs upon the land of Egypt.
Exodus 8:18
And the magicians did so with their enchantments to bring forth lice, but they could not: so there were lice upon man, and upon beast.

>>There is also no physical evidence for the resurrection of Jesus ( if the stories of Jesus were based on a real person).<<

Of course there is. You just don't accept the evidence. His resurrection has been reported in the Gospels by men who considered it a sin to lie. What is your basis for rejecting their accounts?
I reject their accounts because all they have is hearsay, maybe you can believe stories without evidence, but I require evidence.
The same reason why I reject accounts of alien abductions and big-foot sightings.

"If you say it is not true, the burden of proof also have the burden of proof. I accepet wht I beleive the same way you accept what you believe---by faith alone."

Wrong, the burden of proof is on the person saying something is true, not on the person saying they don't believe their claims. Also I don't have any faith. Faith is believing something without evidence, if you had evidence then your faith would be unnecessary.
The same reason that i don't have to prove that Santa Claus isn't real, the burden of proof is on the person claiming Santa is real.

"No. Do you have any evidence the stories are not true?"
Yes, I have almost 40 years of experience and never saw a unicorn, magic, talking animal, or dragon in real life.
If you think testimonial evidence is valuable, then you have no sound reason to discard my testimony.

"I can prove more of what it says than you can prove that what is says is not reliable."

>>It doesn't matter if 90% of a book were true, if 10% is unreliable, then the entire book is in unreliable.<<

Although that statement is not 100% accurate, I will accept it. Now show me the 10% that is not true. If you can't, why should anyone accept your biased opinion? I will even make it easy for you; show me one thing in the Bible that is not true. Here opinions are of no value. You must also provide some evidence.

"Of course there is (physical evidence for the resurrection). You just don't accept the evidence. His resurrection has been reported in the Gospels by men who considered it a sin to lie.

>>I didn't claim they lied, but they could be tricked or hallucinating, or they could have thought lying was for the greater good.

You are still guessing. You still have not presented any evdence to support you biased opinion

>>If there is physical evidence for the resurrection, then present it, then i'll try and explain why I accept or reject that evidence.<<

I have presented it; you have rejected it and that without any evidence. I have a written record of 4 honest men. All you have is your biased opinion. Since you can't disprove what they wrote, I have the better position. Not only that, His death and resurrection was prophesied in the OT.

>>You should focus on evidence for the resurrection, since that is a key element that Christianity is based on.
If you can't provide evidence for the resurrection actually happened, then you have no case.<<

I have provided it. If you can't prove the gospel writers were wrong, you have no case.
DanMGTOW

Pro

"I have provided it. If you can't prove the gospel writers were wrong, you have no case."

Wrong. Since you are claiming the writers of the gospels are right, then you have the burden of proof.
The reason I reject their claims, is because i haven't seen any evidence to justify their claims.
The same reason that i reject claims of alien abductions and big-foot sightings.
All you have presented is hearsay.
Debate Round No. 3
No comments have been posted on this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by BackCommander 4 months ago
BackCommander
donkeyDanMGTOWTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: I agreed with Pro coming in, still do. Pro gets the conduct vote due to Con's frequent sarcasm. S&G vote is tied. Con failed to even attempt to convince anyone of his side (the argument for which was non-existent) and chose instead to spend the entire debate trying to poke holes in the argument Pro was making, losing the Convincing Argument vote. Pro, being the only one to link to a source, and pulling correct information from it, gets the sources vote. Pro wins my vote.