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what is required to be belived for salvation is unclear, for christians

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/22/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 352 times Debate No: 55238
Debate Rounds (3)
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the requirements are either too vague, or too listy/dogmatic.

the bible says if you confess with your mouth jesus is lord, and beleive in your heart that he was raised from the dead you will be saved. it also say if you believe in the lord you will be saved. it also has all kinds of other statements.

so what is it?

if you believe he existed or is God is that enough? probably not cause the bible says demons do likewise.

what about a list of of common beleifs? that you rely on him generally, that he is your savior, that you are a sinner, that he is lord, tha he rose from the dead, that he was incarnated, that he is God, that he is the son of God, substitutionary atonement v 'christus victor' etc etc.

ask different christians, get a different answer, almost every time. they just have 'gut feelings' but dont have firm answers.

some say you have to admit you're a sinner and that he is your savior. what if you believed all the other things and not these? or what if you believe you're a sinner, and that he's a savior, but not that he's God, or a various type of atonement belief. eg, chrsitaus victor v substitutionary.
some say that he is God is required, some say legal substitution is mandatory.

and how do you demarcate the requirements for those who are new to the faith, and those who are really knowledgeable? it might be seen a okay for a newbie to miss a thing or two, but less understandable for the expreinced etc.

so what's the magical formula?


Based on the context of the words used and the requirements to be saved, it is only logical to conclude that:

1. God exists
2. You must put your trust in him, that Jesus came, died, and rose again
3. Repent or turn away from your sins

It is not a matter of belief or doctrine as much as it matters to acknowledge Jesus as Lord of your life, God's existence, and the need to repent and be cleansed of your sins through his atonement.

A convert should receive instructions on what to do in his/her life rather than taught a set of doctrine.
Debate Round No. 1


so here it is then the final decree for all of mankind in a debate post con?

what if you believe 1 2 and 3, except you had reason to doubt the resurretion of Jesus? that that mean you're condemned?

and you mention in a point after your list, being cleansed by atonement. is this required to be believed in, too, or is it something that doesn't have to be in the list? and what if people have varying view of the atonement?

what if the person believes in their heart that Jesus is lord, and that he rose from the dead? the bible say they will be saved. but what if they don't believe all of your three points? does that mean they won't be? is the bible wrong, and you right?

how are you so sure of yourself, and where are you getting all this stuff?


If you don't believe in the resurrection, that is the equivalent of rejecting his victory over death and sin, thus demonstrating you never really believed in the first place.

Atonement is required for your sin to be purged, what examples are there for different views on atonement?

If the Bible says believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord, he rose from the dead, and that he came to save people of their sins as the Bible says, my 3 points are therefore biblical.

I get all this stuff from studying the Bible and meditating on acting upon the Gospel vs. simply teaching/explaining different beliefs on it.
Debate Round No. 2


so you are basically adding a number 4 then? the resurrection. as for atonement, see christus victor and penal substitution. most christians dont say you have to believe one or the other. what's your magical sollution?

you missed the point about the 'believe in your heart and rose from the dead stuff'. the bible says if you do that, you will be saved. but you have this magical list of four things that must be believed. do you contradict the bible? that your three points are biblical doesnt answer this situatin that needs reconciled.

you just seem to spout the big things that pop out at you and as far as i can see are missing the point about how the vague versus too listy problem is always going to be there.
i see there being no solution.... all we can say is it all depends and we aren't God and so we can't know.


Most Christians don't say that because they know you must believe in atonement and resurrection or otherwise, how will you receive forgiveness and let God into your life?

My four points are simply paraphrases of what the Bible teaches with verses such as the ones you quoted, thus i don't contradict the Bible.

God has given us the only way to salvation clearly defined in Scriptures once we study it for ourselves.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by dairygirl4u2c 2 years ago
how do you reconcile that your list is different than con's list, and all the people i've debated or asked about this issue?

also do you disagree with the bible, then. when it says if you confess with your mouth that jesus is lord, and believe in your heart that he rose from th dead, you will be saved. you add other requirements.

what about the differences in new v knowledgeable christians, do you account any diifferences for them?
Posted by creationtruth 2 years ago
The ultimate "thing" you must believe is that Jesus shed His blood, making atonement for your sins, died, was raised from the dead, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father. This is the gospel (good news). Consider what the Apostle Paul says, "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins [Atonement] according to the scriptures; and that he was buried, and that he rose again [Resurrection] the third day according to the scriptures" (1 Corinthians 15:3-4). You must also recognize that the Gospel of Grace (by which you are able to simply believe on Jesus and what He did for you on the cross and thereby be saved and secure until your death) was given to Paul. Peter was given the Gospel of the Kingdom concerning their Messiah which message was for Israel. You can witness this transition between Acts 10 and 28. This Gospel of Grace was a mystery kept hid from the foundation of the world (Romans 16:25-27, Ephesians 3:1-9, et al). Since Christ's revelation to Paul, we now live in the Church Age where any man or woman, whether Jew or Gentile, can trust in Jesus Christ and be saved (Acts 15:8-9, Romans 3:21-23, Romans 10:12-13, and Ephesians 2:11-18).
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