The Instigator
dairygirl4u2c
Pro (for)
Losing
12 Points
The Contender
eyeleapy
Con (against)
Winning
13 Points

what one must believe to be saved is not simple, or at least is not simply taught

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/15/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 840 times Debate No: 2673
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (6)

 

dairygirl4u2c

Pro

what the absolute minimum needed to believe is not clear. i am not saying this in terms of seeking to do or believe the minimum such as to "do as little as i have to to get saved". i am saying for theoretical purposes, what a christian must believe as a minimum to be saved (assuming they don't know or won't know everything possible to believe) is not clear, or at least clearly taught.

i ask christians and they say "believe in jesus". then i point out that the devil does. so they say believe he's your savior. then i point out that some believe that different people see that differently... a good message v atonement etc. a fundamentalist would say a good message is not sufficient. so... you have to believe in atonement is one element.
some don't believe he's god... is that okay? a dogamatic would start to list things you must believe. then i point out that that's dogmatic, and most would shy away from that. they want to have their cake... easy answer... and eat it too.. not giving a clear answer.
it could be generally whatever savior means to you. but what if someone only believes he's god etc, a new convert? that wouldn't cut it. basically everyone is at different stages.
it seems the right conclusion is it depends on hwere you are in your walk.

some people say you can't violate a tenant of the bible beliefs of Jesus... but there are many i know who say they don't believe he's god or aren't sure despite the bible. does that mean they're not saved? i know some who say it don't matter if they believe these things... they must believe in atonement. if that's the case though, then atonement is a necessary thing and all that's really necessary.
i could point out many christian who don't know what that is... beyond the mere lack of knoing the definition etc. they do't know the concept.
so could it be it's not what you believe but rather what you don't? that doesn't help cause the list problem is just starting in the negative direction.

it seems the right answer is it depends on where you are and your heart relationship with God in terms of your believe in jesus. you can't proactively violate a tenant but it depends. how many christians would say that when you ask them what you must believe? i know of none.

so... beyond the whole faith v works debate.. even in terms of faith... what one must believe is not clear or taught very well.
eyeleapy

Con

Hi dairygirl4u2c I honestly am a chatholic but am losing my religion at an extremely fast paste. I find it hard to believe that there is a God out there and that he has infinite patiense for human even though we're all evil people. Maybe I can learn a few things in this debate. But I do need a few good reasons on to why i should accept christ as my savior, and i'm not talking about the whole, burning in hell stuff, because right now, burning sounds much better than servitude.
Debate Round No. 1
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

well i admire you're honesty if you're not playing games with me.

i'm a christian because i have hope. there's plenty of circumstantial proof for God, even if you can't prove it. there's plenty of circumstantial historical evidence for Jesus, even if you can't prove it.
i can't prove columbus existed, but i believe it. not compltely analogous, but it makes a point.

if God is out there and he's love and all that, it'd seem he'd have communiated with us. i'd like to think he did. it's based on faith but that's that.
why faith? well, i think personally that he wants us to live his life through our own free will. because we realize it's the right thing to do.
is faith in jesus required? i'd say not necessarily... and i'd argue in another thread that even the bible says that it's required.
but, if you're looking for hope, and believe the evidence and such... to deny it would be because you have an ax to grind and you have other issues condemning you to reject what you know to be true.
the innocent will always survive.

i believe Jesus is my savior. whereever i go, he'll meet me half way. when i'm in the dark after death, he'll save me. he's defeated death.. which is wht the orthodox believe in Jesus. and he can reach you wherever you are. just like he came to earth to do with us humans.
www.nderf.org you can find accounts for that here.
the general hope i have ensures that if i live and act to my principles, i'll never be condemned.

i don't think i have to believe... but i can't deny what i believe so i do. if yopu fall away, you won't necessarily be condemned. it depends on why you dn't believe and your motives etc.
belief in Jesus then is simply belief in the full truth. it's the fullness of life on earth. if you die without believe, but good intentioned etc, a part of you will never have experience that. but, it doesn't mean you're in hell forever.

think of the story of the prodigal son. that's our relationship with God.
eyeleapy

Con

eyeleapy forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

dairygirl4u2c forfeited this round.
eyeleapy

Con

eyeleapy forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Kleptin 9 years ago
Kleptin
"Don't worry Diarygurl, I have God on my side so I have to win!!! :)"

God's not going to help you. You need the heart of the cards. Or some cheating.
Posted by SolaGratia 9 years ago
SolaGratia
"fast paste." Oh, my gosh. ROFLMBO. Yeah, I hate fast pastes. I do love a little bit of onion paste on my hors d'oeuvres once in a great while, however. This is an idiotic debate.
Posted by YummyYummCupcake 9 years ago
YummyYummCupcake
Dude..both of you are against me? wtf.
Your dumb eyeleapy..But i gots no problem dueling.
I already went first..so your turn.
Posted by eyeleapy 9 years ago
eyeleapy
How bout we duel for that proof Yummyyumcake? I challenge you to a Yugioh duel. If I win, then God exists, if you win then I will forever give up my faith.

Don't worry Diarygurl, I have God on my side so I have to win!!! :)

Ok you can go first!
Posted by YummyYummCupcake 9 years ago
YummyYummCupcake
There's no prove that god really existed. The day you show me pictures with you and god..I might belive..But yet..It's called photoshop..We have our own beliefs. There's no acual prove that god really existed..For all we know..He could've been just a man trying to run as president way way way back then...But turning water to whine is pretty ridiculous.It's like the acient greek people use to pray for the acient greek gods..But nobody really has prove that zues really existed..as silly as it sounds..so does our soo called god.
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by Ron-Paul 4 years ago
Ron-Paul
dairygirl4u2ceyeleapyTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:13 
Vote Placed by quarterexchange 6 years ago
quarterexchange
dairygirl4u2ceyeleapyTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:10 
Vote Placed by BellumQuodPacis 7 years ago
BellumQuodPacis
dairygirl4u2ceyeleapyTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by Tatarize 8 years ago
Tatarize
dairygirl4u2ceyeleapyTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by YummyYummCupcake 9 years ago
YummyYummCupcake
dairygirl4u2ceyeleapyTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by GaryBacon 9 years ago
GaryBacon
dairygirl4u2ceyeleapyTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30