The Instigator
greatman777
Pro (for)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
McPherson
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

whether or not being gay is moral

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
McPherson
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/30/2014 Category: Economics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,135 times Debate No: 44905
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (24)
Votes (1)

 

greatman777

Pro

i believe that being gay is moral because it isn't a choice. notice that most people that are against it just don't understand it and never will. think about it. unless you are gay how are you going to tell me whether or not i made the decision to be gay. as for the bible, it has been edited and reedited so many times it just doesn't even have any credibility anymore. not to mention that every supposed opposition to homosexuality in the bible is merely and opposition to immoral acts that would be no different for heterosexuals. and for those that refer to romans 1 it says that god gave them up to strange afflictions. that is about as vague as saying you ate food for breakfast. it goes on to prove that those who say the bible is against homosexuality are just trying to make God their ultimate authority and failing miserably at it. furthermore, there is the argument that god made man to be with a woman so homosexuality is "unnatural" well what of blind and deaf people? are they sinners too because god made their eyes to see but they don't see and their ears don't hear? jesus healed a blind man. did he ever heal a homosexual? no. because there isn't anything wrong with it. homosexuals balance the population. the earth would be severely overpopulated if it wasn't for us. we already can't feed and house and employ everybody. god put us here for a reason. that counters the "inability to procreate" but the thing is we are still firtile we just can't muster the thought of the action it requires. we could still donate our semen or whatever... but that's besides the point. so.... a penny for your thoughts??
McPherson

Con

I am a gay man. Let's get that "straight." ;)

BEING GAY IS NOT MORAL.

It's also not immoral. My sole argument against your position and stated topic is that what is moral has nothing to do with being gay. What's worse - even trying to argue against it fuels our common enemies of equality. It's about framework.

We don't even know if morality is objective or exists.

That being said - I will go over your major points.

My friend - you claimed "i believe that being gay is moral because it isn't a choice."

OBJECTION. When a subject lacks a choice it is not de facto "moral." Even in moral determinings - lacking a choice may be a modification for even being moral or accountable. My point is this does not prove that being gay is moral. Being gay is being gay.

My friend - you said "notice that most people that are against it just don't understand it and never will."

I SAY - YES. you're absolutely right. HOWEVER - since when did any demographic actually get to decide for any individual actually what was right or wrong. For those of them that somehow get locked in this weird idea that they're actually deciding what is moral for everyone- we can simply respond "Ad Populum" logical fallacy. Or "Non Sequitur". It does not follow logically that because a church says something is infallible - the whole world becomes bound to those words. Why give them any credence at all?

My friend you have said "unless you are gay how are you going to tell me whether or not i made the decision to be gay."

I am gay and I am telling you.

My friend, you said "as for the bible..."

I say "who cares"

My friend you concluded: "furthermore, there is the argument that god made man to be with a woman so homosexuality is "unnatural" well what of blind and deaf people? are they sinners too because god made their eyes to see but they don't see and their ears don't hear? jesus healed a blind man. did he ever heal a homosexual? no. because there isn't anything wrong with it. homosexuals balance the population. the earth would be severely overpopulated if it wasn't for us. we already can't feed and house and employ everybody. god put us here for a reason. that counters the "inability to procreate" "

I say OBJECTION! These were never valid arguments. Anything that happens in nature - is natural. YES even terrible things. What is of nature is beyond right and wrong - good and evil. It is a statement of what is.

Being gay, to me, makes for a wonderful life. I don't have to wonder whether my natural existence is moral because I am not subject to that actual judgment.

I am asking anyone to view this and my friend representing opposing to remove this thought from your mind - to smirk at those that would try to superimpose "moral" on any aspect of you.

Being gay is not a subject we morally determine. Love and life are not interested in the cries of the hateful and destructive.
Debate Round No. 1
greatman777

Pro

Okay your argument is full of amazing points. The only part i disagree with is when you told me it's a choice. for you it may have been. but it isn't for everybody.
McPherson

Con

Thank you. I am glad that we agree that BEING GAY IS NOT MORAL or immoral. Being gay is being gay.

With that said you did make one point that I will expand on but we both know is not essential to the question of "moral."

My friend in your round two argument you said that"
"Okay your argument is full of amazing points. The only part i disagree with is when you told me it's a choice. for you it may have been. but it isn't for everybody."

BUT I SAY OBJECTION. I never disclosed my own view on whether being gay was a choice or not.

WHAT I ACTUALLY SAID WAS:

"My friend - you claimed "i believe that being gay is moral because it isn't a choice."

OBJECTION. When a subject lacks a choice it is not de facto "moral." Even in moral determinings - lacking a choice may be a modification for even being moral or accountable. My point is this does not prove that being gay is moral. Being gay is being gay."

TO THAT I HOLD TRUE! WHY? Because it is, in fact, true. Whether or not you had a choice in being gay is not relevant.

If it is not a choice then it is not a moral dilemma. IF YOU'RE BEING GAY WASN'T A CHOICE THAT DOESN'T MAKE YOU MORAL or IMMORAL. IT MAKES YOU GAY. For me, being a disclosed gay man, I have no opinion on whether or not I made a choice to be gay or if I was just gay by genetics or nature or whatever you call it. To me it doesn't really matter.

HOWEVER - lets say, for arguments sake, that being gay WAS A CHOICE.... the only moral agent is the BARE NAKED INDIVIDUAL REGARDLESS OF IDENTITY and his actions.

I CONCLUDE BY SAYING THIS:

If I am gay beyond my choosing THEN I ALSO CHOOSE TO BE GAY. Does that make me moral or immoral? NO! Identification and subsequent action are only mine to determine for myself. If someone else has something to say then they should have their say.

AGAIN I ASK ANYONE reading this and my esteemed opponent to not accept this topic as true on the basis of what has been covered. We are who we are. All of us.
Debate Round No. 2
greatman777

Pro

greatman777 forfeited this round.
McPherson

Con

You know what to do... Vote con
Debate Round No. 3
greatman777

Pro

greatman777 forfeited this round.
McPherson

Con

Again - Vote Con

Being gay is not moral or immoral.

You just keep be-ing.
Debate Round No. 4
greatman777

Pro

greatman777 forfeited this round.
McPherson

Con

It was my pleasure to represent the position that beingness is beyond the question of moral and that being gay is not moral or immoral. I have even convinced the pro.

Reject this resolution and vote Con!
Debate Round No. 5
24 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by philochristos 3 years ago
philochristos
No, and if being gay or straight means the same thing as being engaged in gay or straight behavior, then people are born neither gay nor straight.

But suppose "being gay" is an orientation, rather than a behavior. Combined with Pro's definition of morality, it's incoherent to say "being gay is moral," since morality has to do with behavior, and being gay is not a behavior.

But if being gay IS a behavior, then it makes no sense to say people are born gay.

So there's just something awry about Pro's whole position.
Posted by McPherson 3 years ago
McPherson
people aren't born engaged in "straight" behavior are they?
Posted by philochristos 3 years ago
philochristos
Interesting. I assumed "being gay" was an orientation, disposition, desire, rather than a behavior. If it's a behavior, then what does it mean to say people are born gay? People aren't born engaging in gay behavior, are they? You say that being gay isn't a choice, but behaviors are choices, aren't they? I don't even know what your resolution means given your definition of "moral" and your arguments.
Posted by greatman777 3 years ago
greatman777
1mor"al adjective \G2;moM5;r-əl, G2;m"r-: concerning or relating to what is right and wrong in human behavior
Posted by Areth 3 years ago
Areth
Oh jeez... sorry. First time doing this kind of thing. I didn't realize if you clicked it nineteen times you'd get nineteen comments. XD
Posted by Areth 3 years ago
Areth
What is your definition of moral?
Posted by Areth 3 years ago
Areth
What is your definition of moral?
Posted by Areth 3 years ago
Areth
What is your definition of moral?
Posted by Areth 3 years ago
Areth
What is your definition of moral?
Posted by Areth 3 years ago
Areth
What is your definition of moral?
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
greatman777McPhersonTied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: Okay your argument is full of amazing points. The only part i disagree with is when you told me it's a choice. for you it may have been. but it isn't for everybody." I'm going to call that a concession, even if he should have logged in to close out the remaining rounds.