which makes more sense? islam(pro) vs christianity(con)
Debate Rounds (5)
hello! my name is hamze ojjeh and i'm a muslim, in english my friends call me hamzay.
1_be polite, no cursing, sarcasm, or being rude
2_everything you say has to have a proof.
3_you can't link to untrusted websites for your proof, like wikipedia, yahoo answers or any of that kind.
4_if your not sure about what are you talking about don't write it.
5_ you have to have a valid proof to support claim
6_ you can't support your claim using the bible, same thing applies to me, you can't get a proof from a verse, but you can get a proof from certain verses for an example, you can't get a proof from a verse that says jesus is a god, and same thing for me i can't get a proof just by saying that the quran says that jesus isn't a god, but you can get a verse that supports what it is saying for an example, god is etc etc etc because etc etc.
may the best one :)
1)_Is jesus the son of god ?
So christians believe that jesus is a son of god and that his a god, lets talk first about him being god,jesus can't be god because..
1_He was created and he was born
2_He used to eat, drink and sleep
3_He even prayed for someone
4_It's not that i believe that jesus got crucified, but i'm going to put it in your way, jesus got crucified right ? this god got tortured and he died, which that doesn't make him a god
5_ How can mary mother of jesus hold a god in her billy for 6 months ?, it doesn't make sense
2)Christians think that we're the enemy
1_In the qur'an jesus is mentioned more then mohamed, and mary mother of jesus is mentioned more than the two of them, marry is mentioned 18 times in all 75 versiones of the bible, but in the quran marry is mentioned 32 times in one version(theres no other versions) she even has her own surah(surah means chapter and every chapter is 20 pages).
2_ In islam jesus is one of the best prophets of all time, and it is written in the quran that he will be coming back, him coming back well be one of the proofs that the last day of the universe is close.
3) The bible has scientific errors(please do not consider this offencive)
The reason why it has scientific errors is because christians written the book after jesus died, which left the people to try to remember, and by time passing, 90% of the book is not valid, but the other 10% of the book is what jesus really said, the nearest one to the org is james version, so i don't consider the bible that now christians read as a bible
1_Genesis chapter 1, it says that god created earth then the sun, this is a scientific error because if you know the big bang, and how the universe works it won't apply to that, and if this didn't convince you earth obits around the sun so you can't create earth then the sun, and another thing is that earth is created from a star explosion, which will lead to birth of planets, and new stars, the star will either go back to normal after the explosion or turn into a black hole.
2_ Genesis chapter 1 also says that god created plants before the sun, which doesn't make sense because plants can't grow without sunlight.
3_Genesis chapter 1 also says that the moon has it's own light and not a reflected light, which scientists discovered before 200 years or so that the moon borrows the light from the sun.
The bible has many verses that are rated R( again please don't consider this offencive)
1_Genesis chapter 19:32 to 33 two daughters were having sex with there father
2_ Genesis chapter 35:22 robin was having sex with his mother
3_Genesis chapter 38 from 50 to what's after it, judah the father of the jewish race, he went and did sex with his daughter in law on the road side
4_ Do you remember the story of abraham and sarah ? when god and went and also did sex with sarah ?
I wanna talk more but i have no more characters left, thank you
God-An all-powerful being
1) Jesus is the son of God
Your reasoning that Jesus is not God or the Son of God is mainly his physical nature. Two points of refutation
-Many gods in other religions are physical as well as spiritual (Greek and Roman gods come instantly to mind). To say that Jesus cannot be God because he is physical is excluding these mythical examples. An all-powerful being isn't necessarily all physical or spiritual. This also means that these gods can feel physical pain and, to a point, be tortured. But these gods don't die. Which means that if Jesus died, he must not have been God right?
-To quote the Nicene Creed, Jesus "came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man." As weird as this is going to sound, Jesus was man and God, "begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father." This means that Jesus shared characteristics with both man and God, but wasn't a demigod, but rather both God and man.
2) Christians think that we're the enemy
First, I would like to point out that you set a standard that Pro cannot site the Qur'an as proof, neither can Con site the Bible as proof. Your first sub point under this section sites the Qur'an as proof that Islam is not an enemy.
As a Christian, I firmly believe that no humans are the enemy. Radicals like Westboro Baptist make a bad name for Christians, and I would hope most non-Christians recognize this. Point 2 is relevant to Christians like those that attend Westboro, but since I am not one, this point is not applicable to all Christians.
3) The Bible has scientific errors
You open up in this point with saying that the Bible was written after Jesus died. The Bible is composed of two sections: The Old Testament and the New Testament. The Old Testament was not only written before Jesus was born, but all of the books were written at least 400 years beforehand. Most of the errors in the New Testament (and I am admitting that there are some errors) are spelling errors, and don't affect the actual translation of the Bible. The documents written by Paul, Luke, and others were copied zealously, which made more copies, and more, and more, but not one by one. There would be, say, fifty copies of Paul's letter to the Ephesians, and five-hundred copies from those. In regards to your other sub points, there are many different theories by Christians on the creation story, but in short: it is not necessary to take the creation story literally.
4) The Bible has many verses that are rated R
I have refuted all of your points. I await the third round.
that doesn't make him a god if he feels pain, and a god being tortured also doesn't make him a god, a god that created a universe, a god who created this really huge massive sun, is being tortured by little humans ? no i don't' think so, and a god that was in a billy of a woman who was created by a god doesn't make since, a god must be the only one powerful, if theres another one like you that doesn't make you a god, jesus was eating and drinking, jesus didn't say that he is god, he didn't say that he is the son of god, but it was the roman people who started talking about that, history doesn't agree with that, in torah it mentions him as a savior and in the quran it mentions him as a prophet, and the bible doesn't say that he's a god, but your gonna tell me that theres a verse in the bible that says(i don't remember it entirely) that only who pass through jesus well go to heaver or something right ? well that was 100% true, before islam came people who follow jesus as a christine's well go to heaven, and before christianity came people who follow mosa as a jewish will go to heaven, and before the three of them came, the people who were doing good well go to heaven, because there was nobody to tell them.
"""First, I would like to point out that you set a standard that Pro cannot site the Qur'an as proof, neither can Con site the Bible as proof."""
I wasn't bringing facts and getting proofs from the quran.
"""" it is not necessary to take the creation story literally"""
Why ? the bible is the word of god right ?
Huh ? you do know that your bible has many errors and really really bad stuff, but you still consider it to be the word of god ?
as a muslim i do not consider the bible right now as the word of god, but as a muslim i have to believe in christianity, and judaism, if i don't believe in jesus i'm not a muslim, i believe in all of his miracles he did, but i don't believe that he is a god or a son of god, it's like 1,2,3 first came judaism then christianity then islam, and mohamed is the last prophet, there is over 100,00 prophet and only 25 are mentioned and only 4 that came with a book.
i wanna ask you a question, you can get whatever you want from the bible for this one, where did in the bible say that jesus is the son of god or god ?
soo is that the bible says you can't do adultery but theres many stories in the bible that support adultery, GOD i mean GOD was sleeping with sarah, wow, and the kid she got why isn't he a god ?
VampyIceMan forfeited this round.
john 16:7 """"Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is expedient for you that I go away, for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you""""
and in the quran, jesus says," a messenger will come after me and his name shall be ahmed" which is another name for mohamed.
so tell me this comforter who can it be if it's not mohamed ?
VampyIceMan forfeited this round.
-When Jesus came down to earth, he was both man and God. As confusing as that sounds, when studying the Bible you HAVE to keep this in mind. Humans eat and drink, so since Jesus was human, he also ate and drank. But Jesus never sinned, because God cannot sin. I tried to use the Greek and Roman gods as an example, since that's the closest comparison, but I must have failed to get my point across. When Jesus was questioned by the Pharisees and Saducees, he said that he was, in fact, God.
-When I said you don't have to take it literally, I meant that you don't. God doesn't have to say everything literally. When Jesus said "I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing." (John 15:5), he didn't mean he was a literal vine and that his followers were literal branches.
-SPELLING ERRORS. Your response in Round three says I admit it has errors, but as I said, "Most of the errors in the New Testament are spelling errors, and don't affect the actual translation of the Bible." Only a couple are not spelling errors, and neither affect the overall message the NT gets across, which is this: For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believed in him will not perish, but have eternal life.
-God never had sex with Sarah. This was the one verse from the Bible you didn't site. For the others: the reason my response was so, was because the Bible was merely mentioning the R rated and X rated stuff. These are people from the Old Testament, and like everyone but Jesus, they sinned.
-In round four, you ask who the comforter in John 16:7 is. I have an answer: The Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is what comes into your heart when you believe in Christ, and He is the comforter.
Again, I'm so sorry to keep you waiting. Unfortunately, this is the final round, and I had fun doing it. Have a blessed day.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by bladerunner060 3 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Conduct for the forfeits from Con. Arguments because this debate focused on Christianity--Con spent what little time he spent participating on defending Christianity, and never attacked Islam. If Islam is a null value in terms of "sense", and there are *any questions whatsoever* as to Christianity, then Islam wins this essentially by default. As a comment overall, I'd just like to note found this debate clunky to read from the way it was formatted and the syntax used.
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