The Instigator
Shadowwalker
Pro (for)
Winning
9 Points
The Contender
NeenahLibertarian
Con (against)
Losing
6 Points

why Ron Paul will not win the Republican nomination for president.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/7/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,088 times Debate No: 1496
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (5)

 

Shadowwalker

Pro

Before I go any further let me state that I am a supporter of Ron Paul and believe in nearly all of his basic political positions/beliefs. Having said this I just can't see any way for him to be nominated in the present political climate of the U.S. I am hoping that someone can convince me otherwise by this debate and therefore give me hope that all is not lost.

#1. Ron Paul is anti entitlement. The majority of the population is 100% in favor of entitlements as long as they believe they are the ones going to receive them

#2. Ron Paul has very low name recognition and many of the people who do know it consider him either a fringe candidate with very little chance of winning or just think he is a little crazy.

#3. The main stream media refuse to acknowledge Ron Paul as a viable political candidate. This is easily verified by any neutral/non opinionated perusal of the coverage he does receive
NeenahLibertarian

Con

#1. Ron Paul is anti-entitlement.

The majority of American citizens are in the middle or upper-middle class, they recieve very few entitlements and the ones that they do get, such as social security, are starting to disappear as the taxes associated with them continue to go up. They don't want their hard earned money to support people who they believe don't pull their weight in society. His popularity is growing among fiscal conservatives and even pro-entitlement social liberals are willing to compramise and because they like Ron Paul's foreign policy and disagree with some of the more radical views of Hillary and Obama.

#2. and #3. Ron Paul has low name recognition and the media doesn't acknowledge him.

Your second point is a direct result of number three. If media coverage goes up, so will name recognition. He hasn't been popular in some of the early states like Iowa and Wyoming because he is a fiscal conservative and those states are more socially conservative. Look for a stronger showing in the more independent New Hampshire. If his network of internet supporters continue to provide this level of financial backing he should be able to hang in through some of the more independent states that have primaries/caucuses throughout January and February, if he can even win one of these his coverage will skyrocket. Besides, he's made a few t.v. appearances recently and it appears more networks are recognizing him.
Debate Round No. 1
Shadowwalker

Pro

Middle class Americans are in love with the entitlements that they do receive. Ask anyone of them over the age of 40 if they are willing to give up Social Security checks in their future and they will do a Dan Rostenkowski number on you(ittle white haired old ladies will beat you over the head with their umbrellas).
As far as winning will then cause the media to pay attention goes Ron Paul has won numerous straw polls and the media just ignores it. Recently they went so far as to remove him from the debate sponsored by Fox news. In the debate sponsored by ABC that he managed to be included in they simply ignored him as if he wasn't even there. More of the same will simply prevent him from gaining the attention required to force the media to cover him fairly.
NeenahLibertarian

Con

Well I'm not sure which middle class people you are asking, because the ones around here realize that their benefits will be minimal if they get them at all and are ready to cut their losses and start investing in private markets, if only there wasn't a social security tax they would have the money to do that. And that's not just people under 40, my parents who are in their mid-40's feel that way. Besides, Ron Paul supports continuing social security for those that have already paid into the system, it's not like he's just going to cut it on the spot.

Straw polls obviously mean nothing this early in the race and the media realizes that, they only use them to compare the big names. Win a primary and that's a different story, they can't ignore him if he pulls that off. It appears likely that he can do that in a few upcoming primaries. Of course if you're referring only to television, you'll be disappointed. They will pick up coverage with a win, but nobody can expect him to get the same attention there as a Romney or Giuliani, his big following is on radio and more importantly the internet. Internet advertising is considered by many to be the most important form of media in this election. He'll be fine.
Debate Round No. 2
Shadowwalker

Pro

Your argument about Ron Paul being very popular on the internet is a valid one but unfortunately the vast majority of that support consists of young people and they are neither registered as republicans or do not vote in large numbers even if they are eligible. The largest voting block in the Republican party are white, over 50 years old and members of the religious right.As the primaries move into the next stage in the south Huckaby will be the outright favorite with the only challenge coming from Rudy Guliani, possibly in Florida. As far as the national media is concerned watch the news programs this weekend such as Face the Nation and see if Ron Paul is even acknowledged to exist. They won't even bring up his name unless it's to announce that he is withdrawing from the election.

In closing let me say that it was fun debating this issue with you. Unfortunately I still feel that we are both doomed to disappointment on this issue and Ron Paul at best will be a third party candidate which means he has no chance at all.
NeenahLibertarian

Con

His support may be among younger people, but that doesn't mean they don't vote. Again, I'm not sure about how it is where you are, but around here, many of the polling places are high schools and college campuses and at my high school many of the teachers will excuse you from the day's homework and material covered in class if you take that time to go down to the gym and vote. I am still 17 but all of my friends who are 18 plan to vote in our primary which I believe is in mid-February. Of course Huckabee is going to be dominant in his region, but Paul's ability to win the nomination is not contingent on placing first in every state. First is predicted to be largely inconsistent, so a good string of second and thirds could result in enough delegates to do the job. And if you have any doubt about the national media's acknowlegment of Ron Paul's legitimacy watch this:

I agree it was a fun debate and I'm sorry you have given up on Ron Paul so easily.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by jazzynicnac 9 years ago
jazzynicnac
Ron Paul will not win the Republican nomination because he is already planning to run as an independent in the general election. He has placed little or no ambition on getting the republican nomination.
Posted by RepublicanView333 9 years ago
RepublicanView333
Well, I kno why Paul won't win the Republican nomination...he's not a Republican
Posted by ScrewSociety62 9 years ago
ScrewSociety62
I debated this once and lost... Good luck to the contender.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by Hurley451 9 years ago
Hurley451
ShadowwalkerNeenahLibertarianTied
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Vote Placed by johnwooding1 9 years ago
johnwooding1
ShadowwalkerNeenahLibertarianTied
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Vote Placed by Chob 9 years ago
Chob
ShadowwalkerNeenahLibertarianTied
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Vote Placed by mmadderom 9 years ago
mmadderom
ShadowwalkerNeenahLibertarianTied
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Vote Placed by NeenahLibertarian 9 years ago
NeenahLibertarian
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