The Instigator
aguilarjohn7
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
DanielChristopherBlowes
Con (against)
Winning
19 Points

women should preach

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
DanielChristopherBlowes
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/5/2012 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,023 times Debate No: 27870
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (5)

 

aguilarjohn7

Pro

Why do you say women shoulnt preach?
DanielChristopherBlowes

Con

A Christian is a follower of Christ and someone who believes the Bible to be the inspired word of God.

As a Christian (from a Pentecostal background like my opponent) I take the Bible and it's instructions as God's instructions.

To do otherwise is to be my own god; the knowledge of good and evil: SIN.

Regarding women preaching the Bible is crystal clear:

1Timothy2:12
I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man; she must be silent.

Self explanatory.

1Corinthians11:3
Now I want you to realise that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of every woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

The head leads: God leads Christ, Christ leads men, men lead women.

1Corinthians14:34
Women should remain silent in the Churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.

How can they preach if they are silent?

Older women may train younger women:

Titus2:3-4
Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good.
Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children.

All Bible passages are from the New International Version.
Debate Round No. 1
aguilarjohn7

Pro

Wow, will ill like to start off by saying thank you to accept this debate. As i see your a mature christian, and im very glad.On the way you put down your point of view.

i am a Apostolic Christian Pentecostal, 3months ago i changed my point of view and said "women should preach". Now ill set my reason why i say Yes.

first of all, Paul was talking in his 5 sences, he wasn't in the spirit, as we could see in this verse: 1Cor 7:10 But to the married I give orders, though not I but the Lord, that the wife may not go away from her husband.
in this verse we could Clearly see that Paul specificly said "Not I but the Lord", now in this next verse he says: 1Cor 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away..
He specifically said "I, not the Lord".
What I'm trying to show you is he was sitting his point of view, his personal point of view, Not Gods point of view but
Paul, he also says it version Basic Bible English 1Tim 2:12 In my opinion it is right for a woman not to be a teacher,
or to have rule over a man, but to be quiet.

He Said "In my opinion"... well that's he's opinion, I didn't get Baptist in the name of Paul, i Got Baptist in the name of Jesus Christ, So why should i do what Paul said to the church in Corinthians?

Now, he also said: 1Cor 14:34 Let women keep quiet in the churches: for it is not right for them to be talking; but let them be under control, as it says in the law.
He said "as it says in the law", What does the law say? Lets start off like this, first of all your a gentile not a Jew, so the law says that us gentiles weren't aloud not even to enter into the holy place lets see: Eze 44:9 For this cause the Lord has said, No man from a strange land, without circumcision of heart and flesh, of all those who are living among the children of Israel, is to come into my holy place.

Ex 29:33 And they shall eat those things wherewith the atonement was made, to consecrate [and] to sanctify them: but a stranger shall not eat [thereof], because they [are] holy.

So if we go by the law Neither would you be able to participate, because we were unwanted because were gentiles, which. Paul him self says it: Eph 2:11 For this reason keep it in mind that in the past you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are looked on as being outside the circumcision by those who have circumcision, in the flesh, made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That you were at that time without Christ, being cut off from any part in Israel's rights as a nation, having no part in God's agreement, having no hope, and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who at one time were far off are made near in the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who has made the two into one, and by whom the middle wall of division has been broken down,
Eph 2:15 Having in his flesh put an end to that which made the division between us, even the law with its rules and orders, so that he might make in himself, of the two, one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that the two might come into agreement with God in one body through the cross, so putting an end to that division.
Eph 2:17 And he came preaching peace to you who were far off, and to those who were near;
Eph 2:18 Because through him the two of us are able to come near in one Spirit to the Father.
Eph 2:19 So then you are no longer as those who have no part or place in the kingdom of God, but you are numbered among the saints, and of the family of God,
Eph 2:20 Resting on the base of the Apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief keystone,
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building, rightly joined together, comes to be a holy house of God in the Lord;
Eph 2:22 In whom you, with the rest, are united together as a living-place of God in the Spirit.

So when Paul understood that he said: Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Now, where does the bible say, that preaching is about to sit authority? Isn't preaching, is speaking the word of God? Now the word is already written, what difference is there if a women preaches the word, isn't it the same word spoken the same, i meen is not the person who speaks it that has the power, it is what it says that has the power, even if a kid speaks the word, there is power because its the word of God.

Now yes the bible says The man is the head of the women, but were all 1in Christ, and church ain't to seperate women from men, church is ro worship God,
The bible says be in the Spirit, do men that think wen can't preach, is because there ain't in the spirit and to be the spirit is following the fruit of the spirit,
1Cor 11:11 But the woman is not separate from the man, and the man is not separate from the woman in the Lord.
1Cor 11:12 For as the woman is from the man, so the man is through the woman; but all things are from God.

Now what happends in the beggining
Gen 2:24 For this cause will a man go away from his father and his mother and be joined to his wife; and they will be one flesh.
One flesh literally in the spiritually life, why do you seperate it in church?
Now doesn't the bible say: Acts 17:24 The God who made the earth and everything in it, he, being Lord of heaven and earth, is not housed in buildings made with hands;
Acts 17:25 And he is not dependent on the work of men's hands, as if he had need of anything, for he himself gives to all life and breath and all things;
Acts 17:26 And he has made of one blood all the nations of men living on all the face of the earth, ordering their times and the limits of their lands.

Were the temple now how can you avoid women speak in her temple?
were all in one same blood, were all supposed to be in 1 same spirit, and i know while Women Preach Word of God, God well back them up because Its word of God not of men.
DanielChristopherBlowes

Con

ROUND 2 REBUTTAL.

1) 1Timothy 2:12
I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.

This is easily the most devastating scripture to my opponents case and so if he can successfully show that Paul is merely conveying a personal opinion it would indeed be a knockout blow.

I do not believe my opponent has done so: Paul does not say "in my opinion" in any translation I can find and I would challenge my opponent to supply one if he has it.

The context of the scripture is shown in the very next two verses:

1Timothy 2:13-14
For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

Paul is showing that this is a fundamental issue; if a woman can be deceived she cannot be held accountable. This is why the enemy went straight to Eve and God straight to Adam.

Here's another:

1Corinthinians 11:8-9
For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.

2) 1Corinthians 14:34
women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.

The New Testament clearly teaches that Christians are not under the law but under grace:

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the spirit, you are not under law.

So Paul is clearly appealing to a law rather than The Law.

3) Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

The context here is faith and unity; Paul is trying to halt divisions that arose due to race, sex or position. As he is not specifically talking about teaching then it is in no way contrary to 1 Timothy 2:12.

4) 1Corithians 11:11-12
In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.

We see from the earlier Corinthians verses (11:8-9 above) that the context here is not equality but headship. Then Paul reminds us, in the Lord, that men and women are not independent of each other, this is to counter the natural desire to 'lord it over' women rather than serving them in the Lord.

5) Genesis 2:24
For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

It says one flesh, not one spirit.
Debate Round No. 2
aguilarjohn7

Pro

aguilarjohn7 forfeited this round.
DanielChristopherBlowes

Con

As my opponent has forfeited round 3, I'll let my round 2 rebuttal stand as my concluding remarks.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by DanielChristopherBlowes 4 years ago
DanielChristopherBlowes
All three voters tied for spelling and grammar; can you read?
Posted by DanielChristopherBlowes 4 years ago
DanielChristopherBlowes
Whoever wins this debate, I would like you to prayfully consider whether you changed your mind about women preaching to please men, to be popular, to be 'in'..

Because the fear of man is a snare but the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by drafterman 4 years ago
drafterman
aguilarjohn7DanielChristopherBlowesTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by johnlubba 4 years ago
johnlubba
aguilarjohn7DanielChristopherBlowesTied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by medic0506 4 years ago
medic0506
aguilarjohn7DanielChristopherBlowesTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit- Con provided the winning argument anyway. Biblically, Pro provided nothing that counters Con's verses.
Vote Placed by Maikuru 4 years ago
Maikuru
aguilarjohn7DanielChristopherBlowesTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Conduct to Con for forfeit
Vote Placed by AlwaysMoreThanYou 4 years ago
AlwaysMoreThanYou
aguilarjohn7DanielChristopherBlowesTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit.