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"All Art is Political"

CosmicAlfonzo
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5/9/2011 12:29:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
So art that is meant to be pornography for the senses would not be art?
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
PoeJoe
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5/9/2011 12:52:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/9/2011 12:29:42 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
So art that is meant to be pornography for the senses would not be art?

I'm just asking the question.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't object to someone calling pornography "art," although I would say that the production values are typically quite awful. Furthermore, I think trying to judge pornography as art would be a rock hard thing to do. ;D

Central question: is all art political?
Television Rot: http://tvrot.com...
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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5/9/2011 12:55:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
No. Unless you can explain how a picture of a brook winding through a fall forest landscape is political. Or the picture of my two good ol hunting dogs I have hanging in my den is political.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,295
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5/9/2011 1:14:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/9/2011 1:11:04 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Contaire. All art is anti-political.

You're right!

because if it is not, it ceases to be art, and then becomes propaganda.
CosmicAlfonzo
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5/9/2011 1:21:15 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
There is an art to propaganda.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/9/2011 1:32:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Political implications of this, go.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/9/2011 1:34:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
As far as porn goes, I do recall reading a feminist interpretation of 2 girls 1 cup.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
CosmicAlfonzo
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5/9/2011 1:39:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
By porn for the senses, I was referring to art that is specifically tailored to elicit the most pleasure from the sense that it is stimulating.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
belle
Posts: 4,113
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5/9/2011 1:41:43 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
i always have trouble understanding what people mean when they use the word "political". its one of the most vague and yet widely used terms out there. assuming something along the lines of power relations and collective decision making, i would say yes insofar as art is an attempt to influence (change) the people who consume it in some way. that is a kind of power and it can shape the decisions they make. you can then go on to argue if most movies/ novels/etc made today can be considered "art" or not, since the majority are an attempt to entertain rather than influence or even communicate (after most movies i feel i've just wasted a chunk of my life).

on the other hand, i think the reason the word "political" is so hard for me to pin down is because its used in so many contexts (especially in postmodern and femminist writers) that i've completely lost track of the limits of the term. once every action a person can take becomes political, the term loses all meaning. so one could also argue for a stricter definition of political, such that mere influence does not qualify. and i think thats probably a more accurate route, since as it stands, politics (government) is an identifiable thing, and theres no compelling reason to allow personal agendas to distort the word into meaninglessness.

anyways, i doubt many people here give a sh*t about art. so chill.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
CosmicAlfonzo
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5/9/2011 1:59:51 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/9/2011 1:41:43 AM, belle wrote:
on the other hand, i think the reason the word "political" is so hard for me to pin down is because its used in so many contexts (especially in postmodern and femminist writers) that i've completely lost track of the limits of the term. once every action a person can take becomes political, the term loses all meaning.

The reason why I'm confused about everything.

We live in the tower of babel, yo.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
bigpoppajustice
Posts: 7
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5/10/2011 2:13:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/9/2011 1:46:55 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
I think art is such a personal thing, there is no way it can have any universal political ties.

I agree. It all depends on the way one interprets the work. If someone feels the piece has political implications (and can justify it, of course), then that feeling is just as valid as any other.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,295
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5/10/2011 2:50:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Even if you have a rap artist singing about killing cops and anarchy, some people will insist that it is just a song and not a political statement.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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5/10/2011 2:59:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
If it's political, it's not art, it's a non-verbal statement. "Art" that i have seen that is political is usually predictable in its message and ugly in its presentation. "Art" that seems to require some sort of statement is a redefinition of what once was.
Greyparrot
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5/10/2011 3:02:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 2:59:24 PM, innomen wrote:
If it's political, it's not art, it's a non-verbal statement. "Art" that i have seen that is political is usually predictable in its message and ugly in its presentation. "Art" that seems to require some sort of statement is a redefinition of what once was.

INNOMEN whaassssuup?
innomen
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5/10/2011 3:05:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 3:02:04 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/10/2011 2:59:24 PM, innomen wrote:
If it's political, it's not art, it's a non-verbal statement. "Art" that i have seen that is political is usually predictable in its message and ugly in its presentation. "Art" that seems to require some sort of statement is a redefinition of what once was.

INNOMEN whaassssuup?

Hey grey, pokin' around. U?
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,295
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5/10/2011 3:11:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 3:05:05 PM, innomen wrote:
At 5/10/2011 3:02:04 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/10/2011 2:59:24 PM, innomen wrote:
If it's political, it's not art, it's a non-verbal statement. "Art" that i have seen that is political is usually predictable in its message and ugly in its presentation. "Art" that seems to require some sort of statement is a redefinition of what once was.

INNOMEN whaassssuup?

Hey grey, pokin' around. U?

I'm stressed out and procrastinating a paper on why OPEC and the "oil weapon" fails.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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5/10/2011 3:17:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 3:11:33 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/10/2011 3:05:05 PM, innomen wrote:
At 5/10/2011 3:02:04 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/10/2011 2:59:24 PM, innomen wrote:
If it's political, it's not art, it's a non-verbal statement. "Art" that i have seen that is political is usually predictable in its message and ugly in its presentation. "Art" that seems to require some sort of statement is a redefinition of what once was.

INNOMEN whaassssuup?

Hey grey, pokin' around. U?

I'm stressed out and procrastinating a paper on why OPEC and the "oil weapon" fails.

More interesting than the work I'm doin'
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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5/16/2011 9:51:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The statement seems to be a bit of a stretch to me, but a surprising amount of art is more political than initially seen. Then again, a lot can be interpreted as "political" - I sure know philosophy can. Should art that expresses philosophical messages be considered political? I can understand saying yes, but I feel a line needs to be drawn. Can someone explain to me how the Mona Lisa is political? I'm not the most artistic person around, so the artists who answer "yes" to this question should take no hesitant to tear down my views here.

I can certainly see how modernist works are political, you'll see conservative critics commenting all the time on that.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/21/2011 12:35:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 2:59:24 PM, innomen wrote:
If it's political, it's not art, it's a non-verbal statement.

Ayn Rand says art is a selective recreation of reality according to an artist's metaphysical value-judgments (and I agree). It exemplifies man's fundamental view of himself and of existence, and tells man in effect which aspects of his experience are to be regarded as significant. Why then can a non-verbal statement not be considered art? That doesn't make sense to me. Art can be political. Would you like to debate it? I feel I haven't debated in ages.

"Art" that i have seen that is political is usually predictable in its message and ugly in its presentation.

Ouch.

http://www.malaspina.org...

That's a political piece by Caravaggio.
President of DDO
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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5/21/2011 1:03:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Art is the organization of different elements to produce an effect that is stimulating to one or more senses.

Art doesn't have to mean anything. The people who find meaning in meaningless art are just overly analytical... Sometimes to the point of retardation. Not that an artist would complain if you were overly analytical about their art. They just might smack you in the head with the gnarled Buddha stick until you realize that there is no meaning, you fvckwad, it is what it is.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/21/2011 1:05:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/21/2011 1:03:01 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Art doesn't have to mean anything.

So what's the difference between art and non-art?
President of DDO
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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5/21/2011 1:12:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/21/2011 1:05:23 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 5/21/2011 1:03:01 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Art doesn't have to mean anything.

So what's the difference between art and non-art?

How pretentious you are about it. Hah.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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5/21/2011 1:29:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/21/2011 12:35:11 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 5/10/2011 2:59:24 PM, innomen wrote:
If it's political, it's not art, it's a non-verbal statement.

Ayn Rand says art is a selective recreation of reality according to an artist's metaphysical value-judgments (and I agree). It exemplifies man's fundamental view of himself and of existence, and tells man in effect which aspects of his experience are to be regarded as significant. Why then can a non-verbal statement not be considered art? That doesn't make sense to me. Art can be political. Would you like to debate it? I feel I haven't debated in ages.

"Art" that i have seen that is political is usually predictable in its message and ugly in its presentation.

Ouch.

http://www.malaspina.org...

That's a political piece by Caravaggio.

- An artist who is painting a particular political scene isn't necessarily making a political statement but just painting something that moves him.
- "a selective recreation of reality according to an artist's metaphysical value-judgments" Would then a painter of the 1700's who is looking to create a portrait of a subject as accurately and objectively as possible to real life - the sole objective - not be considered an artist, or his paintings art?
- By that same quote, what then of talent? If that is the definition of art then that which qualifies as art and an artist can encompass anyone with intent, regardless of actual talent. What is good art, what is bad art by that definition?

Debating it would be an uphill struggle because i admit in this thread i am making subjective statements that buck up against the common and current acceptable meaning of art. Although it might be fun to debate you ;-).