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Is Hip Hop truly dead ?

inferno
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7/27/2011 10:15:15 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
It aint what it used to be. Remember when you had rap groups like The Furious Five, Two Live Crew, Public Enemy, NWA, and more. Rap music created the culture of what we know today as hip hop. It all derived from the early 70's and was an artistic blend of urban beats and catchy rhymes. Now it is so commercialized, these elements have faded away. It has taken the authenticity and creativity out of the
music. Todays rap game is not the same. The theme and content is more about
material things than it is anything else. It has become narrow, generic, and repetitive.
So it is a product of what our society considers to be the norm. And that is one must thrive on quantity and not quality. It is all about making an 'image' to please the masses. Needless to say that hip hop as it is now, is dead. What do you think ?
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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7/27/2011 1:06:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/27/2011 10:15:15 AM, inferno wrote:
It aint what it used to be. Remember when you had rap groups like The Furious Five, Two Live Crew, Public Enemy, NWA, and more. Rap music created the culture of what we know today as hip hop. It all derived from the early 70's and was an artistic blend of urban beats and catchy rhymes. Now it is so commercialized, these elements have faded away. It has taken the authenticity and creativity out of the
music. Todays rap game is not the same. The theme and content is more about
material things than it is anything else. It has become narrow, generic, and repetitive.
So it is a product of what our society considers to be the norm. And that is one must thrive on quantity and not quality. It is all about making an 'image' to please the masses. Needless to say that hip hop as it is now, is dead. What do you think ?

If you want quality, its usually a mistake to look at the mainstream commercial music industry. But it's also a mistake to conflate music with what the mainstream music industry produces. Just because Yo MTV rap sucks (or whatever it is the kids are watching these days) doesn't mean an entire genre is dead. Some of the best music being made today is rap. And you can find it if you look hard enough. They'll never play the good stuff on the air anymore though (unless its an undergroud radio station).

I never liked rap much in the 80's and 90's but looking back at the old classics that came out of that era, I realize how devolved the mainstream stuff has become. It's all seems to be a formula now: Woman cars, violence and ice grilling. This is all just garbage and should be ignored.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
inferno
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7/27/2011 1:10:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/27/2011 1:06:33 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 7/27/2011 10:15:15 AM, inferno wrote:
It aint what it used to be. Remember when you had rap groups like The Furious Five, Two Live Crew, Public Enemy, NWA, and more. Rap music created the culture of what we know today as hip hop. It all derived from the early 70's and was an artistic blend of urban beats and catchy rhymes. Now it is so commercialized, these elements have faded away. It has taken the authenticity and creativity out of the
music. Todays rap game is not the same. The theme and content is more about
material things than it is anything else. It has become narrow, generic, and repetitive.
So it is a product of what our society considers to be the norm. And that is one must thrive on quantity and not quality. It is all about making an 'image' to please the masses. Needless to say that hip hop as it is now, is dead. What do you think ?

If you want quality, its usually a mistake to look at the mainstream commercial music industry. But it's also a mistake to conflate music with what the mainstream music industry produces. Just because Yo MTV rap sucks (or whatever it is the kids are watching these days) doesn't mean an entire genre is dead. Some of the best music being made today is rap. And you can find it if you look hard enough. They'll never play the good stuff on the air anymore though (unless its an undergroud radio station).

I never liked rap much in the 80's and 90's but looking back at the old classics that came out of that era, I realize how devolved the mainstream stuff has become. It's all seems to be a formula now: Woman cars, violence and ice grilling. This is all just garbage and should be ignored.

I agree Vbac. Even if you are not a casual fan of hip hop, you know what good quality music sounds like and persists of. There is still some quality stuff out there
in todays world, but it is not close to what it use to be. Mainstream was once the
gold standard in the music industry. It was much more liberated back in those days and time and was not so controlled. I guess this is a reflection of other themes in our society that has also changed for the worse. This is just one of them.
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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7/27/2011 1:28:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/27/2011 1:10:45 PM, inferno wrote:
At 7/27/2011 1:06:33 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 7/27/2011 10:15:15 AM, inferno wrote:
It aint what it used to be. Remember when you had rap groups like The Furious Five, Two Live Crew, Public Enemy, NWA, and more. Rap music created the culture of what we know today as hip hop. It all derived from the early 70's and was an artistic blend of urban beats and catchy rhymes. Now it is so commercialized, these elements have faded away. It has taken the authenticity and creativity out of the
music. Todays rap game is not the same. The theme and content is more about
material things than it is anything else. It has become narrow, generic, and repetitive.
So it is a product of what our society considers to be the norm. And that is one must thrive on quantity and not quality. It is all about making an 'image' to please the masses. Needless to say that hip hop as it is now, is dead. What do you think ?

If you want quality, its usually a mistake to look at the mainstream commercial music industry. But it's also a mistake to conflate music with what the mainstream music industry produces. Just because Yo MTV rap sucks (or whatever it is the kids are watching these days) doesn't mean an entire genre is dead. Some of the best music being made today is rap. And you can find it if you look hard enough. They'll never play the good stuff on the air anymore though (unless its an undergroud radio station).

I never liked rap much in the 80's and 90's but looking back at the old classics that came out of that era, I realize how devolved the mainstream stuff has become. It's all seems to be a formula now: Woman cars, violence and ice grilling. This is all just garbage and should be ignored.

I agree Vbac. Even if you are not a casual fan of hip hop, you know what good quality music sounds like and persists of. There is still some quality stuff out there
in todays world, but it is not close to what it use to be. Mainstream was once the
gold standard in the music industry. It was much more liberated back in those days and time and was not so controlled. I guess this is a reflection of other themes in our society that has also changed for the worse. This is just one of them.

Yeah, it's in interesting point (that mainstream used to be the gold standard).
I think what happens is, in the beginning the music experts (artist, producers, etc...) have a lot of control over how the music sounds. As time progresses, market pressure forces the music to conform to the desires of the masses whose musical tastes and sensibilities can't be expected to be as refined as the experts. Mainstream rap seems to be a perfect example of this but I suppose the same thing happens in all genres.

Or maybe I'm just starting to say the types of things people say after they turn 35.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
inferno
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7/27/2011 1:32:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
35 is a great age, as it is a reflection of maturity. Where you are then may say where you will be years from now. Anyway, to those who are great thinkers, change is inevitable. The music will be part of the revolution, and we are on the brink of one as we speak.
Lickdafoot
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7/28/2011 5:04:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
there is a lot of good underground rap music out there. unfortunately, the children who make music popular are so influenced by the media that the goodies don't make it to the spotlight. the american mainstream music industry as a whole is a joke right now.

90's rock and 90's rap were two of the best musical movements, IMO, and they both went to the ground!
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Lickdafoot
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7/28/2011 5:08:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
i should rephrase that. its not so much the kids faults as it is the music industry shoving things down their throats. if you hear enough of something, you start to like it, especially if you havent heard better.
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Lasagna
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7/29/2011 1:24:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Yeah I liked the 90s too... the birth of hip-hop and alternative rock were both awesome. The naughts just sucked... alternative rock just kind of tapered off, and rap went from street poetry to "I'm at the club, check out my rims, I'm rich, I degrade women." Here we are at the dawn of a new decade, and I'm not convinced it's going to be any better! Rap is continuing to worsen, rock is still stagnant, and nothing new and refreshing is aloof. It's interesting how revolutionary each one of the twentieth century decades were (80s was so original that we can just say "eighties," for instance) and how stale each one of the twenty-first's are looking to be.
Rob
sadolite
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7/29/2011 8:09:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/29/2011 1:25:16 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Perhaps we should ask is music truly dead...

I think it is. There isn't anything worth listening to on the radio anymore. It's all negative mindless liberal garbage. Metallica was the last great band in league with the Beatles and Led Zeppelin Aerosmith ZZ Top. Like anything can even hold a candle to them today.

50 cent ya right
P Diddy ya right
Lady GaGa ya right

None of the bands today have any "class" They can't make it on talent alone.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
inferno
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8/1/2011 11:48:48 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/29/2011 8:09:46 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/29/2011 1:25:16 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Perhaps we should ask is music truly dead...

I think it is. There isn't anything worth listening to on the radio anymore. It's all negative mindless liberal garbage. Metallica was the last great band in league with the Beatles and Led Zeppelin Aerosmith ZZ Top. Like anything can even hold a candle to them today.

50 cent ya right
P Diddy ya right
Lady GaGa ya right

None of the bands today have any "class" They can't make it on talent alone.

I agree. The music you see in the mainstream today is generic and uncreative.
Everything sounds the same.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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8/1/2011 12:25:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/1/2011 11:48:48 AM, inferno wrote:
At 7/29/2011 8:09:46 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/29/2011 1:25:16 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Perhaps we should ask is music truly dead...

I think it is. There isn't anything worth listening to on the radio anymore. It's all negative mindless liberal garbage. Metallica was the last great band in league with the Beatles and Led Zeppelin Aerosmith ZZ Top. Like anything can even hold a candle to them today.

50 cent ya right
P Diddy ya right
Lady GaGa ya right

None of the bands today have any "class" They can't make it on talent alone.

I agree. The music you see in the mainstream today is generic and uncreative.
Everything sounds the same.

For once, Inferno/Interrogator/Alien/Bill is right.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Man-is-good
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8/1/2011 12:42:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/1/2011 12:28:50 PM, inferno wrote:
Man Is Good. Do you even listen to hip hop ? Im curious about this one.

Nope. I only commented since I agreed with your comment about the generic, and poor, quality of today's music....
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
inferno
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8/3/2011 8:27:51 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/2/2011 7:34:32 PM, seraine wrote:
Music is dead? Check out Nox Arcana's stuff, they have a pretty good quality.

Nox Arcana. I will have to look them up.
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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8/3/2011 11:20:47 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/27/2011 10:15:15 AM, inferno wrote:
It aint what it used to be. Remember when you had rap groups like The Furious Five, Two Live Crew, Public Enemy, NWA, and more. Rap music created the culture of what we know today as hip hop. It all derived from the early 70's and was an artistic blend of urban beats and catchy rhymes. Now it is so commercialized, these elements have faded away. It has taken the authenticity and creativity out of the
music. Todays rap game is not the same. The theme and content is more about
material things than it is anything else. It has become narrow, generic, and repetitive.
So it is a product of what our society considers to be the norm. And that is one must thrive on quantity and not quality. It is all about making an 'image' to please the masses. Needless to say that hip hop as it is now, is dead. What do you think ?

Hey Interrogator, I totally agree with a lot of what you're saying here, especially in terms of the lack of creativity, artistry and authenticiy in a lot of modern commercial hip hop.

I do think though, that it's worth considering that part of the problem is the actual perspective of the aging rap fan. Looking back, you or I can have fond memories of groups like NWA and 2Live Crew, and obviously those recordings have an energy and vitality that is missing from most modern stuff (although personally I think NWA tunes have aged a lot better than any of Luke's stuff.)

However, objectively it is clear that these artists were often just as guilty of including some of the shallow content that I find myself bemoaning in modern hip hop, for example the glorification of gangsterism by NWA, and disgusting attitudes towards women from both those groups. PE are a clear exception, as although they had a militant message they explored a lot of positive themes.

I guess the main difference between then and now is that there was a lot more variety of succesful hip hop music, with overtly conscious groups like De La Soul getting as much recognition as gangsta rap like NWA.

Overall, I don't think hip hop is dead, though it has certainly been kidapped and heavily sedated. You can't completely destroy a culture that lives on in the hearts and minds of so many.
inferno
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8/3/2011 12:04:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 11:20:47 AM, feverish wrote:
At 7/27/2011 10:15:15 AM, inferno wrote:
It aint what it used to be. Remember when you had rap groups like The Furious Five, Two Live Crew, Public Enemy, NWA, and more. Rap music created the culture of what we know today as hip hop. It all derived from the early 70's and was an artistic blend of urban beats and catchy rhymes. Now it is so commercialized, these elements have faded away. It has taken the authenticity and creativity out of the
music. Todays rap game is not the same. The theme and content is more about
material things than it is anything else. It has become narrow, generic, and repetitive.
So it is a product of what our society considers to be the norm. And that is one must thrive on quantity and not quality. It is all about making an 'image' to please the masses. Needless to say that hip hop as it is now, is dead. What do you think ?

Hey Interrogator, I totally agree with a lot of what you're saying here, especially in terms of the lack of creativity, artistry and authenticiy in a lot of modern commercial hip hop.

I do think though, that it's worth considering that part of the problem is the actual perspective of the aging rap fan. Looking back, you or I can have fond memories of groups like NWA and 2Live Crew, and obviously those recordings have an energy and vitality that is missing from most modern stuff (although personally I think NWA tunes have aged a lot better than any of Luke's stuff.)

However, objectively it is clear that these artists were often just as guilty of including some of the shallow content that I find myself bemoaning in modern hip hop, for example the glorification of gangsterism by NWA, and disgusting attitudes towards women from both those groups. PE are a clear exception, as although they had a militant message they explored a lot of positive themes.

I guess the main difference between then and now is that there was a lot more variety of succesful hip hop music, with overtly conscious groups like De La Soul getting as much recognition as gangsta rap like NWA.

Overall, I don't think hip hop is dead, though it has certainly been kidapped and heavily sedated. You can't completely destroy a culture that lives on in the hearts and minds of so many.

Feverish. I think that hip hop in the mainstream world is dead. But the underground version is best. You have legendary rappers such as LL Cool J, Snoop, Dr Dre, Ice Cube, Nas, Jay Z, Wu Tang, and Public Enemy still putting out
good music which is vaguely seen even now as novelty. That is because we live in such a commercialized culture. They top the charts barely when the album is
released and then they fall quickly to the botton due to other mainstream artist
getting airplay today. So it is not the same radio wise. You can go to Amazon
and see the reviews for the old school rappers. They are still a force to be
reckoned with. I just wish that the industry still embraced them the way they did
20 years ago. Unfortunately their agenda is different now. They want cheapers,
low quality, unproductive music to fill our heads and dumb down our children.
That is what is really boils down to nowadays. But I believe it will make a comeback and we will bear witness to another movement soon.
CosmicAlfonzo
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8/3/2011 1:10:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Lets get real here for a second, fellahs. The lyrical content of pop music has ALWAYS been incredibly insipid.

Hip Hop isn't doing anything different. IN fact, I'd rather listen to contemporary hip hop than the alternative club/rave sh!t. Hip hop is like Rock N' Roll to that Disco sh!t.

And I'll have to say this, Rock music forgot it's roots, which was all about the sexual revolution. Rock music is not rock music without the sex. I don't care how loud your power chords are, and how How much your vocalist screams, if there isn't a at the very least a mentally ill amount of innuendo in your music, it isn't rock. That's one of the main problems I have with metal. It takes itself too seriously to do some songs about violent fvcking(which would be the brutal way to do it).

But no, Hip Hop will not die any time soon. Neither will rock. Hell, even blues is still alive and breathing(at least in Chicago, there is a pretty big scene, with Blues Bars scattered about.). Hell, blues has been trying to die for over a century now, but the people won't let it.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
inferno
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8/3/2011 2:17:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 1:10:19 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Lets get real here for a second, fellahs. The lyrical content of pop music has ALWAYS been incredibly insipid.

Hip Hop isn't doing anything different. IN fact, I'd rather listen to contemporary hip hop than the alternative club/rave sh!t. Hip hop is like Rock N' Roll to that Disco sh!t.

And I'll have to say this, Rock music forgot it's roots, which was all about the sexual revolution. Rock music is not rock music without the sex. I don't care how loud your power chords are, and how How much your vocalist screams, if there isn't a at the very least a mentally ill amount of innuendo in your music, it isn't rock. That's one of the main problems I have with metal. It takes itself too seriously to do some songs about violent fvcking(which would be the brutal way to do it).

But no, Hip Hop will not die any time soon. Neither will rock. Hell, even blues is still alive and breathing(at least in Chicago, there is a pretty big scene, with Blues Bars scattered about.). Hell, blues has been trying to die for over a century now, but the people won't let it.

Cosmic. I get what you are saying though. Outside the mainstream world these
zenres of music is growing daily on a global scale. Dont forget about how big music is in the UK and Canada. There are nightclubs, conventions, house parties, concerts, and festivals that keep them going. They are the most requested and respected. And that is because they are actually talented and authentic.
They will always be around and people will always demand them.
Danielle
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8/13/2011 4:48:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
@ Lasagna - Hip hop wasn't birthed in the 1990s...

I agree with the person who said there is still a lot of good music underground, so no hip hop is not truly dead despite mainstream rap being more popular. I also agree with Cosmic insofar as pop music traditionally being pretty innocuous. However that is often the entire point of the genre: simple, catchy music.

I can't take it seriously when people criticize music for its simplicity; sometimes that's it's charm. You don't have to be snobby about music. I can recognize a vast difference in terms of musical ability, difficulty or artistry amongst genres but that doesn't mean a good pop song every now and then isn't fun to jam out too. Unlike Cosmic, I friggin love electronic/dance music (and I actually vehemently disagree that it doesn't demonstrate 'real musicianship' as many of my friends allege - but I digress). As much as I love BB King, when I'm at a bar/club, I really don't feel like hearing the blues.

At home I might listen to classical, jazz, classic rock, etc. all day, but you best believe I'll enjoy every minute of dancing my a$s off to an absolutely retarded Britney Spears song at night. I don't see why people can't enjoy frivolous music so long as to them it doesn't sound like complete and utter crap. I mean most of it does, but I think people should just get over it and appreciate the good stuff but embrace the catchy mediocrity of the mainstream :P
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Lasagna
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8/13/2011 5:38:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 4:48:50 PM, Danielle wrote:
@ Lasagna - Hip hop wasn't birthed in the 1990s...

I'm far from an expert, but I consider 80s "rap" and 90s "hip-hop." The main difference is the excitement in the voice (or how-ever you want to put it). Rakim is generally considered the one who brought about this transition; before him it was the hyped-up, loud-mouthed, percussion-heavy type (rap) and after that it became the smooth, relaxed type (loosely speaking, of course) which is more melody-driven.

I agree with the person who said there is still a lot of good music underground, so no hip hop is not truly dead despite mainstream rap being more popular. I also agree with Cosmic insofar as pop music traditionally being pretty innocuous. However that is often the entire point of the genre: simple, catchy music.

It's popular to hate on popular, though. If the genre was good, then it would be good enough to make something pop-worthy. It's not becoming popular because it isn't fresh enough. Of course, some pop is absolute garbage, but that's because it's fresh in a different sense - it's appealing to a certain crowd.

I can't take it seriously when people criticize music for its simplicity; sometimes that's it's charm. You don't have to be snobby about music. I can recognize a vast difference in terms of musical ability, difficulty or artistry amongst genres but that doesn't mean a good pop song every now and then isn't fun to jam out too. Unlike Cosmic, I friggin love electronic/dance music (and I actually vehemently disagree that it doesn't demonstrate 'real musicianship' as many of my friends allege - but I digress). As much as I love BB King, when I'm at a bar/club, I really don't feel like hearing the blues.

At home I might listen to classical, jazz, classic rock, etc. all day, but you best believe I'll enjoy every minute of dancing my a$s off to an absolutely retarded Britney Spears song at night. I don't see why people can't enjoy frivolous music so long as to them it doesn't sound like complete and utter crap. I mean most of it does, but I think people should just get over it and appreciate the good stuff but embrace the catchy mediocrity of the mainstream :P

Those pop dance tunes often have excellent beats. Britney and company excel because they capture that emotion that you want when you're out at the club - the "I don't give a sh*t I want to party" vibe. I think the heart of music is capturing the emotion. A good song is only good if you can relate to it emotionally, and the pop-stars are simply reflecting the mood of the people.

No good hip-hop is being produced to capture the emotion in the people. Underground only plays to the hardcore crowd, so that will alyways exist and yes, to someone hardcore it's just as good as the best ever. But no hip-hop artist can cross that threshold these days and capture the emotions of the masses - because it's dead. That's not to say it can't be revived though.

Hip-hop is BLACK; whether you want to admit it or not. It represents their culture (although not exclusively). Black culture is what is dying; not hip-hop itself.
Rob
Danielle
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8/13/2011 6:35:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 5:38:11 PM, Lasagna wrote:
I'm far from an expert, but I consider 80s "rap" and 90s "hip-hop." The main difference is the excitement in the voice (or how-ever you want to put it). Rakim is generally considered the one who brought about this transition; before him it was the hyped-up, loud-mouthed, percussion-heavy type (rap) and after that it became the smooth, relaxed type (loosely speaking, of course) which is more melody-driven.

Not really, because I'm sure you would consider both Biggie and Tupac hip-hop artists yet Biggie is known specifically for his smooth flow while Tupac's is more aggressive. Hip-hop refers to aspects of a particular culture, including rapping, DJing, break dancing, graffiti, and beatboxing. It has origins in the 1970s, not the 90s. The reason people refer to current music as rap as opposed to hip hop is because the rap songs that are out do not seem realistic or pertinent to the particular culture that hip-hop represents. Hip-hop is still out there; it's just not Lil Wayne. Talib Kweli is probably the most mainstream hip-hop artist.

Those pop dance tunes often have excellent beats. Britney and company excel because they capture that emotion that you want when you're out at the club - the "I don't give a sh*t I want to party" vibe. I think the heart of music is capturing the emotion. A good song is only good if you can relate to it emotionally, and the pop-stars are simply reflecting the mood of the people.

I agree. Her producer is a genius. I love almost every song she puts out, despite her being one of the absolute worst singers I have ever heard in my life. I think of it in terms of music being what you're feeling and lyrics being what you're thinking. When I'm out drinking and having fun, I'm not thinking about the complexities of human existence - I'm thinking "If I said I want your body now, would you hold it against me?" :P

No good hip-hop is being produced to capture the emotion in the people. Underground only plays to the hardcore crowd, so that will alyways exist and yes, to someone hardcore it's just as good as the best ever. But no hip-hop artist can cross that threshold these days and capture the emotions of the masses - because it's dead. That's not to say it can't be revived though.

If it's underground and you haven't heard it then how can you make these assumptions?

Hip-hop is BLACK; whether you want to admit it or not. It represents their culture (although not exclusively). Black culture is what is dying; not hip-hop itself.

I see so many people lost who really try to pretend
But am I just another white boy who has caught on to the trend?
When I take a step to the mic is hip-hop closer to the end?
Cuz when I go to shows the majority have white skin

They marketed the windmill, the air flair and head spin
And white rappers albums really get the most spins
The face of hip-hop has changed a lot since Eminem
And if he's taking away black artists' profits I look just like him

Claimed a culture that wasn't mine - the way of the American
Hip-hop is gentrified and where will all the people live
It's like the central district - Beacon Hill to the South End
Being pushed farther away because of what white people did, now

Where's my place in a music that's been taken by my race
Cultural appropriated by the white face
And we don't want to admit that this is existing
So scared to acknowledge the benefits of our white privilege

Cuz it's human nature to want to be part of something different
Especially when your ancestors are European Christians
And most whites don't want to acknowledge this is occurring
Cuz we got the best deal - the music without the burden

Of being black in a system that really wants you to rock
Cuz all you need is a program and you can go and make hip-hop
And we hate the mainstream, cuz we're the ones that took it
Now we listen to Aesop Rock and wear t-shirts that say Brooklyn

But it's not about black and white, right?
I mean good music is good music regardless of what you look like
But when you don't give them props isn't that selfish?
That's like saying rock was actually started by Elvis

So where does this leave me?
I feel like I pay dues but I'll always be a white MC
I give everything I have when I write a rhyme
But that doesn't change the fact that this culture's not mine

But I'm gonna be me, so please be who you are
This is something that's effortless and shouldn't be hard
I said I'm gonna be me, so please be who you are
But we still owe 'em 40 acres, now we've stolen their 16 bars

Hip-hop started off in a block that I've never been to
To counteract a struggle that Ive never even been through
If I think I understand just because I flow too
That means I'm not keeping it true, nope

Now I don't rap about guns so they label me conscious
But I don't rap about guns cause I wasn't forced into the projects
See I was put in the position where I could chose my options
Blessed with the privilege that my parent's could send me to college

Now who's going to shows - the kids on the block starving?
Or the white people with dough that can relate to my content?
Marketed the music, now adapted to the lifestyle
What happened to jazz and rock and roll is happening right now

Where's my place in the music that's been taken by the media
With white corporations controlling what they're feeding ya
I brought up Aesop Rock but I'm not even dissing dude
We love hip-hop and what do you think Caucasians are listening to?

And I speak freely when I write this
If a black MC examined race, there goes half their fan base - white kids
And this is so true, and we didn't even have to fight the system
We just went and picked up the microphone too

And we got good at it, so we should be rapping
But only supporting them is like burning Jimmy and buying Clapton
Now Clapton's incredible, but no Jimmy no foundation
So here comes history and the cultural appropriation

White kids with do-rags trying to practice their accents
From the suburbs to the upperclass mastering a language
But hip-hop is not just memorizing words
It's rooted in authenticity - something you literally can't learn

But I'm gonna be me, so please be who you are
This is something that's effortless and shouldn't be hard
I said I'm gonna be me, so please be who you are
But as I'm blessed with the privilege, they're still left with the scars

Hip-hop started off in a block that I've never been to
To counter act a struggle that Ive never even been through
If I think I understand just because I flow too
That means I'm not keeping it true, nope

... Ps. Black culture is not dying; it's evolving like every other culture. Hip-hop started off as a representation of a particular culture where the majority of people happened to be black, and likely endured particular struggles BECAUSE they were black, but that culture or experience is not exclusive to blacks. Do you consider Eminem hip-hop? And why isn't rapping authentically about other pertinent adversaries not definitively hip-hop? I don't agree with that.
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inferno
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8/15/2011 8:36:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 4:48:50 PM, Danielle wrote:
@ Lasagna - Hip hop wasn't birthed in the 1990s...

I agree with the person who said there is still a lot of good music underground, so no hip hop is not truly dead despite mainstream rap being more popular. I also agree with Cosmic insofar as pop music traditionally being pretty innocuous. However that is often the entire point of the genre: simple, catchy music.

I can't take it seriously when people criticize music for its simplicity; sometimes that's it's charm. You don't have to be snobby about music. I can recognize a vast difference in terms of musical ability, difficulty or artistry amongst genres but that doesn't mean a good pop song every now and then isn't fun to jam out too. Unlike Cosmic, I friggin love electronic/dance music (and I actually vehemently disagree that it doesn't demonstrate 'real musicianship' as many of my friends allege - but I digress). As much as I love BB King, when I'm at a bar/club, I really don't feel like hearing the blues.

At home I might listen to classical, jazz, classic rock, etc. all day, but you best believe I'll enjoy every minute of dancing my a$s off to an absolutely retarded Britney Spears song at night. I don't see why people can't enjoy frivolous music so long as to them it doesn't sound like complete and utter crap. I mean most of it does, but I think people should just get over it and appreciate the good stuff but embrace the catchy mediocrity of the mainstream :P

Acutally hip hop was actually birthed during the 1980's and derived from music of the late 1970's. It was a mixture of things ranging from gospel to reggae and had some international influence. But todays version of mainstream hip hop is absolute garbage and lacks creativity.
feverish
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8/16/2011 11:29:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/15/2011 8:36:19 AM, inferno wrote:

Acutally hip hop was actually birthed during the 1980's and derived from music of the late 1970's.

No. The culture definitely took shape in the 1970s. The first hip hop records appeared in 1978 (King Tim III Personality Jock by Fatback band, closely followed by The Sugarhill Gang's Rapper's Delight). The music in a live form definitely predates those releases by several years, with DJs cutting up breaks from a variety of music genres and MCs rapping over it in New York block parties.

At 8/13/2011 5:38:11 PM, Lasagna wrote:

I'm far from an expert, but I consider 80s "rap" and 90s "hip-hop."

Interesting, I've heard other people say the old skool is hip hop, and new stuff is rap. I personally subscribe to the KRS-One ideology that there is no such thing as "rap music", just hip hop.

The main difference is the excitement in the voice (or how-ever you want to put it). Rakim is generally considered the one who brought about this transition; before him it was the hyped-up, loud-mouthed, percussion-heavy type (rap) and after that it became the smooth, relaxed type (loosely speaking, of course) which is more melody-driven.

Totally disagree there. Rakim did change the game, but plenty of pre-Rakim rappers had a smooth, relaxed flow (Spoonie G, Spyder D etc) and shouty rapping certainly continued long after he broke out (MOP, DMX etc.):


Hip-hop is BLACK; whether you want to admit it or not. It represents their culture (although not exclusively). Black culture is what is dying; not hip-hop itself.

I'm glad you included the "not exclusively" qualifier, but that's still a massive over-simplification and generalisation.

The music (and particularly rapping) have certainly always been heavily dominated by black people, but not necessarily other aspects of the culture. B-boying was from the beginning massive among latinos, as well as black people, and most of the leading international breakers nowadays are White Europeans or Japanese kids. Graffiti has arguably always been dominated by white people and latinos.

If you're talking just about the music you do have more of a point. Obviously the vast majority of rappers are black and so were most of the pioneer DJs and producers , also there's the roots of the music in soul, funk and rock, and particularly the music of James Brown, the african story telling traditions personified by the griots, the soundsystem culture and DJ (MC) traditions of Jamaica, the focus on improvisation and personal expression that come from Jazz etc. Despite this though, from the beginning hip hop incorporated music by white people too. Quite a lot of the breaks samples that underpin classic hip hop records are played by white drummers and white musicians in all white bands, Michael Veiner's Incredible Bongo Band, John Bonham, Aerosmith etc, Afrika Baambaata incorporated all sorts of white people's music in his sets and his production, from Punk, to The Monkees, to German Electro heads Kraftwerk.

The most popular rapper of the last 15 years is probably Eminem, who's white, the most famous breakdancer of all time, Crazy Legs, is Hispanic, the "godfather" of graffiti is Seen, who's white, most of the top scratch DJs are now (and have been for decades) Americans of East Asian heritage like Q-Bert, Mixmaster Mike, Honda etc. or white Europeans like DJ Noize and my mate Tony (DJ Switch, three time world champion and performing at the BBC proms this year) so saying that hip hop music is black clearly doesn't tell the whole story.

It's kind of like saying "Classical music is white" which most people would recognise as having historical basis but being extremely offensive to non-white classical musicians. Hip hop is of course bred from a ghetto environment of impoverished, disenfranchised people, and as it was born in America it's no surprise it is mostly associated with black people. It's an international culture now though and white people have probably always been the primary consumers of the product.

Plenty of black people despise hip hop music and culture and I'm sure they wouldn't appreciate it being equated with their culture in general. Labelling any modern day cultures as exclusively belonging to a racial group seems ludicrous to me, although obviously there is often correlation. It's kind of like the white nationalists who say they are concerned with culture rather than race, when there's no such thing as a white culture.
Calvincambridge
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9/10/2011 7:02:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/29/2011 8:09:46 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/29/2011 1:25:16 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Perhaps we should ask is music truly dead...

I think it is. There isn't anything worth listening to on the radio anymore. It's all negative mindless liberal garbage. Metallica was the last great band in league with the Beatles and Led Zeppelin Aerosmith ZZ Top. Like anything can even hold a candle to them today.

50 cent ya right
P Diddy ya right
Lady GaGa ya right

None of the bands today have any "class" They can't make it on talent alone.

This
Trying to figure out women is like trying to solve a Rubik's cube with missing pieces. While blind. And on fire. And being shot.-Agent_Orange
Dude. Shades
That is all.- Thaddeus Rivers
One thing that isn't a joke though is the fact that woman are computers.Some buttons you can press and it'l work fine, but if you push the wrong one you'll get the blue screen of death.
silly, thett. girls are only good for sex. being friends with a female is of no value.-darkkermit
Calvincambridge
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9/10/2011 7:05:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/1/2011 12:28:50 PM, inferno wrote:
Man Is Good. Do you even listen to hip hop ? Im curious about this one.

I'm man is goods age and I hate modern music thats why when I say rap I mean 2000s 2010s rap and hip hop 90s and 80s never heard the rap and hip hop from them so not sure but other than that I love 60s 70s and 80s.
Trying to figure out women is like trying to solve a Rubik's cube with missing pieces. While blind. And on fire. And being shot.-Agent_Orange
Dude. Shades
That is all.- Thaddeus Rivers
One thing that isn't a joke though is the fact that woman are computers.Some buttons you can press and it'l work fine, but if you push the wrong one you'll get the blue screen of death.
silly, thett. girls are only good for sex. being friends with a female is of no value.-darkkermit