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The decline of poetry and painting

vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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12/2/2011 11:03:51 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
It seems that two art forms: poetry and painting, were very popular and relevent in the 19th century and before. In the 20th century they seem to have become irrelevent in most people's estimation. Two questions: Is this just my perception; do I have it wrong? Or -if I'm correct-, what accounts for their decline. Is it simply that we have better forms of entertainment (recorded music replaced poetry, movies and tv replaced static images)? Or is it that the educational system has turned what were once vibrant forms of entertainment into rigid, stodgy forms of education that one must learn to "appreciate" rather than simply be allowed produce and enjoy. Does the educational system insist that certain styles are legitimate and that only refined sensibilities can appreciate the legitimate styles? Has education killed poetry and painting?
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mrbusy
Posts: 29
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1/3/2012 2:57:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I enjoy to read russian literature written in 19th centry to 20th for example, because the feeling found there can't be found in any of contemporary literature.

I think it more than educational system to be blamed. Many great art forms have waned because of liberalism where individual's thinking is highly regarded while any orthodoxy is universally refuted, making almost any arbitrary interpretation is accepted hence the artwork became to lose its proper way of appreciation. Artists have also made fun in postmodern era. Also in modernism, art has dissected by reasoning instead of proper appreciation.
CosmicAlfonzo
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1/5/2012 10:02:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I still enjoy paintings.

Poetry is harder for me to get into. I thing 90% of the poetry I've read is terrible. Then too many who recite have terrible delivery.
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OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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1/7/2012 12:51:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't get to much into Art, and Poetry, just cause I can't grasp them as well. Though personally, I find some video games an art form. I'm not saying the whole idea of shooting someone is, but I just enjoy looking at those little details that they put around, which almost nobody really notices, but without them, it would look horrible.
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DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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1/8/2012 9:27:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/7/2012 12:51:51 AM, OberHerr wrote:
I don't get to much into Art, and Poetry, just cause I can't grasp them as well. Though personally, I find some video games an art form. I'm not saying the whole idea of shooting someone is, but I just enjoy looking at those little details that they put around, which almost nobody really notices, but without them, it would look horrible.

Oh no, it's obviously an art form.

I didn't even know that was still up for debate anymore.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Man-is-good
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1/8/2012 9:31:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Forcing one to appreciate something often takes the color and impact of a piece of literature (poetry, novel, and so on) or art. It's one reason why I dislike how the curriculum is patterned, focusing specifically only on certain types in literature (in my school)-Romantic poems, Gothic literature, the works of Shakespeare for most students (though some, but not much, variations exist per class).
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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1/8/2012 9:35:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/5/2012 10:02:59 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I still enjoy paintings.

Poetry is harder for me to get into. I thing 90% of the poetry I've read is terrible. Then too many who recite have terrible delivery.

most people have that problem with poetry, and I am one of them.
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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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1/8/2012 9:36:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 9:27:48 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:

Oh no, it's obviously an art form.

I didn't even know that was still up for debate anymore.

Art may be a famously/infamously broad term, but it still has parameters.

Video games are not art forms....The characters they make are art. Whatever they have to draw is art. Simply arranging a game is not. It makes me angry the way people water down the word art to include some of the things that honestly don't warrant the same degree of human expression. Not everything is art, and the fact that you think this one in particular is an uncontroversial given, is what worries me the most. In a video game, can you point out to me who exactly is expressing what?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
16kadams
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1/8/2012 9:36:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/7/2012 12:51:51 AM, OberHerr wrote:
I don't get to much into Art, and Poetry, just cause I can't grasp them as well. Though personally, I find some video games an art form. I'm not saying the whole idea of shooting someone is, but I just enjoy looking at those little details that they put around, which almost nobody really notices, but without them, it would look horrible.

eh...it actually is. Graphic design = art
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
DetectableNinja
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1/8/2012 9:36:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 9:35:31 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/5/2012 10:02:59 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I still enjoy paintings.

Poetry is harder for me to get into. I thing 90% of the poetry I've read is terrible. Then too many who recite have terrible delivery.

most people have that problem with poetry, and I am one of them.

And how does that reflect on the value of poetry.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Man-is-good
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1/8/2012 9:36:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
After all, I tend to generalize it more like analyzing and forcing yourself to consider the little workings--symbols, meter, beat, sound (which encompasses the former two) of poems rather than letting the author's harmonious mix of such devices to effect something on the reader. (This only applies to secondary education) In spite of this, understanding the conventions of language and literature is important, as well as interpreting themes and tones of a poem/piece of literature, and may even help a reader understand a work better....
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
UnStupendousMan
Posts: 3,475
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1/8/2012 9:37:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 9:31:08 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
Forcing one to appreciate something often takes the color and impact of a piece of literature (poetry, novel, and so on) or art. It's one reason why I dislike how the curriculum is patterned, focusing specifically only on certain types in literature (in my school)-Romantic poems, Gothic literature, the works of Shakespeare for most students (though some, but not much, variations exist per class).

This. So much this.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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1/8/2012 9:38:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 9:31:08 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
Forcing one to appreciate something often takes the color and impact of a piece of literature (poetry, novel, and so on) or art. It's one reason why I dislike how the curriculum is patterned, focusing specifically only on certain types in literature (in my school)-Romantic poems, Gothic literature, the works of Shakespeare for most students (though some, but not much, variations exist per class).

This is the reason why art hath no form in modern society.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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1/8/2012 9:48:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 9:36:14 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/8/2012 9:27:48 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:

Oh no, it's obviously an art form.

I didn't even know that was still up for debate anymore.

Art may be a famously/infamously broad term, but it still has parameters.

Video games are not art forms....The characters they make are art. Whatever they have to draw is art. Simply arranging a game is not. It makes me angry the way people water down the word art to include some of the things that honestly don't warrant the same degree of human expression. Not everything is art, and the fact that you think this one in particular is an uncontroversial given, is what worries me the most. In a video game, can you point out to me who exactly is expressing what?

Sure.

In the game "BioShock," the game explores the ideas of Objectivism, as well as the power that our ideologies can have over us, as evidenced in both the city of Rapture, as well as Andrew Ryan.

In "Shadow of the Colossus," the game explores the lengths people go to to get what they want, as well as our connections to those we love, as evidenced by Wander, and his hunting of the 16 otherwise innocent Collossi to resurrect a girl named Mono, as well as his sacrifice of his own innocence along the way.

In "LIMBO," the game has a very minimalistic style with beautiful artwork. It is effectively an abstract piece of visual art--but it also has an abstract story, as we play a boy that travels through a forest-like world as well as an industry-like world, in the end crashing through a large window, ending up in the place where he started--this time, a girl (commonly thought to be his sister) is there. Some people think that they both have died, and, as the title implies, they are going through Limbo.

In fact, all three games have beautiful graphic design (to cover visual art) in addition to their intriguing stories and themes (covering literary art).

And those are just three examples.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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1/8/2012 9:53:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 9:48:39 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 1/8/2012 9:36:14 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/8/2012 9:27:48 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:

Oh no, it's obviously an art form.

I didn't even know that was still up for debate anymore.

Art may be a famously/infamously broad term, but it still has parameters.

Video games are not art forms....The characters they make are art. Whatever they have to draw is art. Simply arranging a game is not. It makes me angry the way people water down the word art to include some of the things that honestly don't warrant the same degree of human expression. Not everything is art, and the fact that you think this one in particular is an uncontroversial given, is what worries me the most. In a video game, can you point out to me who exactly is expressing what?

Sure.

In the game "BioShock," the game explores the ideas of Objectivism, as well as the power that our ideologies can have over us, as evidenced in both the city of Rapture, as well as Andrew Ryan.

In "Shadow of the Colossus," the game explores the lengths people go to to get what they want, as well as our connections to those we love, as evidenced by Wander, and his hunting of the 16 otherwise innocent Collossi to resurrect a girl named Mono, as well as his sacrifice of his own innocence along the way.

In "LIMBO," the game has a very minimalistic style with beautiful artwork. It is effectively an abstract piece of visual art--but it also has an abstract story, as we play a boy that travels through a forest-like world as well as an industry-like world, in the end crashing through a large window, ending up in the place where he started--this time, a girl (commonly thought to be his sister) is there. Some people think that they both have died, and, as the title implies, they are going through Limbo.

In fact, all three games have beautiful graphic design (to cover visual art) in addition to their intriguing stories and themes (covering literary art).

And those are just three examples.

lol thanks for that.

In the game Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, it explores the moral travesty of war by simulating the conditions under which our soldiers are forced to endure. It then makes implicit commentary on our arsenal of nuclear weapons by giving us the option to nuke the enemy. It proceeds to provide stunning perspectives on the value of teamwork and courage on the battlefield. Bravo Modern Warfare! you are a work of true art, and triumph in human expression!

...see how easy that was?....
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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1/8/2012 9:55:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
000ike, what is the definition of art?
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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1/8/2012 9:55:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 9:53:40 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/8/2012 9:48:39 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 1/8/2012 9:36:14 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/8/2012 9:27:48 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:

Oh no, it's obviously an art form.

I didn't even know that was still up for debate anymore.

Art may be a famously/infamously broad term, but it still has parameters.

Video games are not art forms....The characters they make are art. Whatever they have to draw is art. Simply arranging a game is not. It makes me angry the way people water down the word art to include some of the things that honestly don't warrant the same degree of human expression. Not everything is art, and the fact that you think this one in particular is an uncontroversial given, is what worries me the most. In a video game, can you point out to me who exactly is expressing what?

Sure.

In the game "BioShock," the game explores the ideas of Objectivism, as well as the power that our ideologies can have over us, as evidenced in both the city of Rapture, as well as Andrew Ryan.

In "Shadow of the Colossus," the game explores the lengths people go to to get what they want, as well as our connections to those we love, as evidenced by Wander, and his hunting of the 16 otherwise innocent Collossi to resurrect a girl named Mono, as well as his sacrifice of his own innocence along the way.

In "LIMBO," the game has a very minimalistic style with beautiful artwork. It is effectively an abstract piece of visual art--but it also has an abstract story, as we play a boy that travels through a forest-like world as well as an industry-like world, in the end crashing through a large window, ending up in the place where he started--this time, a girl (commonly thought to be his sister) is there. Some people think that they both have died, and, as the title implies, they are going through Limbo.

In fact, all three games have beautiful graphic design (to cover visual art) in addition to their intriguing stories and themes (covering literary art).

And those are just three examples.

lol thanks for that.

In the game Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, it explores the moral travesty of war by simulating the conditions under which our soldiers are forced to endure. It then makes implicit commentary on our arsenal of nuclear weapons by giving us the option to nuke the enemy. It proceeds to provide stunning perspectives on the value of teamwork and courage on the battlefield. Bravo Modern Warfare! you are a work of true art, and triumph in human expression!

...see how easy that was?....

And your point is what? Besides what appears to be you saying that you are the last word in what is art?

And, yes. MW3 is art as well. That's why it was so easy.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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1/8/2012 10:03:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 9:55:33 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
000ike, what is the definition of art?

Art is the channel of expression that is supposed to reflect something about a persons thoughts or emotions. Its a broad definition, but its not that broad. People have taken this definition and clawed it open to include things so infantile and insignificant, that the creations that ARE art, and that ARE expression have no name to accurately call themselves....Anyone who can moves shapes around can make a basic video game. Call of Duty is not created to reflect ANYTHING, its created to be fun and captivating.

Lumping that in with Micheal Angelo's sistine chapel painting, and Chopin's Nocturne is what makes me so angry.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
DetectableNinja
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1/8/2012 10:09:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 10:03:31 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/8/2012 9:55:33 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
000ike, what is the definition of art?

Art is the channel of expression that is supposed to reflect something about a persons thoughts or emotions. Its a broad definition, but its not that broad. People have taken this definition and clawed it open to include things so infantile and insignificant, that the creations that ARE art, and that ARE expression have no name to accurately call themselves....Anyone who can moves shapes around can make a basic video game. Call of Duty is not created to reflect ANYTHING, its created to be fun and captivating.

Lumping that in with Micheal Angelo's sistine chapel painting, and Chopin's Nocturne is what makes me so angry.

Who gives a sh1t if video games are lumped in with your precious Sistine Chapel and Chopin?

I agree, both are very beautiful, but to eliminate one because you think it's beneath you (which is, in effect, what you're saying), is elitist to a disgusting level.

Also, counter definition: The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture.

Also: The product or process of deliberately arranging items (often with symbolic significance) in a way that influences and affects one or more of the senses, emotions, and intellect.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
UnStupendousMan
Posts: 3,475
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1/8/2012 10:10:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 10:03:31 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/8/2012 9:55:33 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
000ike, what is the definition of art?

Art is the channel of expression that is supposed to reflect something about a persons thoughts or emotions. Its a broad definition, but its not that broad. People have taken this definition and clawed it open to include things so infantile and insignificant, that the creations that ARE art, and that ARE expression have no name to accurately call themselves....Anyone who can moves shapes around can make a basic video game. Call of Duty is not created to reflect ANYTHING, its created to be fun and captivating.

Lumping that in with Micheal Angelo's sistine chapel painting, and Chopin's Nocturne is what makes me so angry.

http://accidental-historian.typepad.com...
There's a Calvin and Hobbes for that.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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1/8/2012 10:18:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 10:09:03 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 1/8/2012 10:03:31 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/8/2012 9:55:33 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
000ike, what is the definition of art?

Art is the channel of expression that is supposed to reflect something about a persons thoughts or emotions. Its a broad definition, but its not that broad. People have taken this definition and clawed it open to include things so infantile and insignificant, that the creations that ARE art, and that ARE expression have no name to accurately call themselves....Anyone who can moves shapes around can make a basic video game. Call of Duty is not created to reflect ANYTHING, its created to be fun and captivating.

Lumping that in with Micheal Angelo's sistine chapel painting, and Chopin's Nocturne is what makes me so angry.

Who gives a sh1t if video games are lumped in with your precious Sistine Chapel and Chopin?


I agree, both are very beautiful, but to eliminate one because you think it's beneath you (which is, in effect, what you're saying), is elitist to a disgusting level.

Ah, just like telling you a rubber eraser does not count as food is elitist on the definition of food right?

Also, counter definition: The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture.

All you did was arrange a mess of saccharine words to distract the fact that the definition is absurd. Thanks to you a pencil is art, a lamp is art, this piece of paper is art, everything is art actually! It takes imagination to do EVERYTHING man-made in case you didn't realize. You have diluted the potency and magnificence associated with this word!

Also: The product or process of deliberately arranging items (often with symbolic significance) in a way that influences and affects one or more of the senses, emotions, and intellect.

Same as above.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Man-is-good
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1/8/2012 10:23:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 10:03:31 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/8/2012 9:55:33 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
000ike, what is the definition of art?

Art is the channel of expression that is supposed to reflect something about a persons thoughts or emotions. Its a broad definition, but its not that broad. People have taken this definition and clawed it open to include things so infantile and insignificant, that the creations that ARE art, and that ARE expression have no name to accurately call themselves....Anyone who can moves shapes around can make a basic video game. Call of Duty is not created to reflect ANYTHING, its created to be fun and captivating.

Lumping that in with Micheal Angelo's sistine chapel painting, and Chopin's Nocturne is what makes me so angry.

Would a landscape painting of an artist's favorite view be art or not?
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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1/8/2012 10:24:50 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 10:18:24 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/8/2012 10:09:03 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 1/8/2012 10:03:31 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/8/2012 9:55:33 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
000ike, what is the definition of art?

Art is the channel of expression that is supposed to reflect something about a persons thoughts or emotions. Its a broad definition, but its not that broad. People have taken this definition and clawed it open to include things so infantile and insignificant, that the creations that ARE art, and that ARE expression have no name to accurately call themselves....Anyone who can moves shapes around can make a basic video game. Call of Duty is not created to reflect ANYTHING, its created to be fun and captivating.

Lumping that in with Micheal Angelo's sistine chapel painting, and Chopin's Nocturne is what makes me so angry.

Who gives a sh1t if video games are lumped in with your precious Sistine Chapel and Chopin?



I agree, both are very beautiful, but to eliminate one because you think it's beneath you (which is, in effect, what you're saying), is elitist to a disgusting level.

Ah, just like telling you a rubber eraser does not count as food is elitist on the definition of food right?

Also, counter definition: The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture.

All you did was arrange a mess of saccharine words to distract the fact that the definition is absurd. Thanks to you a pencil is art, a lamp is art, this piece of paper is art, everything is art actually! It takes imagination to do EVERYTHING man-made in case you didn't realize. You have diluted the potency and magnificence associated with this word!

Also: The product or process of deliberately arranging items (often with symbolic significance) in a way that influences and affects one or more of the senses, emotions, and intellect.

Same as above.

Telling a rubber eraser it isn't food is a false analogy, as food entails being edible. Art entails human expression, which video games are. Ike, you're just being intellectually dishonest and elitist now.

I will also remind you that the track record of all art follows the same pattern that video games are on right now. With films, they started out as just being considered a form of simple-minded entertainment. Now they are considered one of the leading mediums of art. Unless, of course, you think even FILMS aren't art.

The same applies to theatre, one of my favorite mediums of art. That was considered mere entertainment too, but then things changed, and theatre is one of the most elite forms of art.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Man-is-good
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1/8/2012 10:30:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 10:29:48 AM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
I would honestly read a "Video Games are Not Art" debate. PRO: 000ike, CON: DetectableNinja

Who's with me?

I'm with you as well. A semantical and aesthic debate over 1) the value of video games and 2) the nature and definition of art.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
000ike
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1/8/2012 10:31:50 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 10:24:50 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 1/8/2012 10:18:24 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/8/2012 10:09:03 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 1/8/2012 10:03:31 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/8/2012 9:55:33 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
000ike, what is the definition of art?

Art is the channel of expression that is supposed to reflect something about a persons thoughts or emotions. Its a broad definition, but its not that broad. People have taken this definition and clawed it open to include things so infantile and insignificant, that the creations that ARE art, and that ARE expression have no name to accurately call themselves....Anyone who can moves shapes around can make a basic video game. Call of Duty is not created to reflect ANYTHING, its created to be fun and captivating.

Lumping that in with Micheal Angelo's sistine chapel painting, and Chopin's Nocturne is what makes me so angry.

Who gives a sh1t if video games are lumped in with your precious Sistine Chapel and Chopin?



I agree, both are very beautiful, but to eliminate one because you think it's beneath you (which is, in effect, what you're saying), is elitist to a disgusting level.

Ah, just like telling you a rubber eraser does not count as food is elitist on the definition of food right?

Also, counter definition: The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture.

All you did was arrange a mess of saccharine words to distract the fact that the definition is absurd. Thanks to you a pencil is art, a lamp is art, this piece of paper is art, everything is art actually! It takes imagination to do EVERYTHING man-made in case you didn't realize. You have diluted the potency and magnificence associated with this word!

Also: The product or process of deliberately arranging items (often with symbolic significance) in a way that influences and affects one or more of the senses, emotions, and intellect.

Same as above.

Telling a rubber eraser it isn't food is a false analogy, as food entails being edible. Art entails human expression, which video games are. Ike, you're just being intellectually dishonest and elitist now.

I will also remind you that the track record of all art follows the same pattern that video games are on right now. With films, they started out as just being considered a form of simple-minded entertainment. Now they are considered one of the leading mediums of art. Unless, of course, you think even FILMS aren't art.

The same applies to theatre, one of my favorite mediums of art. That was considered mere entertainment too, but then things changed, and theatre is one of the most elite forms of art.

Fine, I'm finding this is an unsustainable position. I concede,...again.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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1/8/2012 10:31:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 10:29:48 AM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
I would honestly read a "Video Games are Not Art" debate. PRO: 000ike, CON: DetectableNinja

Who's with me?

The only problem I have with that is that it would turn into one big definition argument.

A more interesting debate would be "Resolved: Video games should be considered art."
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
UnStupendousMan
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1/8/2012 10:33:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/8/2012 10:31:57 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 1/8/2012 10:29:48 AM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
I would honestly read a "Video Games are Not Art" debate. PRO: 000ike, CON: DetectableNinja

Who's with me?

The only problem I have with that is that it would turn into one big definition argument.

A more interesting debate would be "Resolved: Video games should be considered art."

I second the resolution.
DetectableNinja
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1/8/2012 10:37:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
In celebration of my victory, I have changed my profile picture. Check it!
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
OMGJustinBieber
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1/8/2012 10:53:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Modern video games have incredible aesthetic elements. That said, if you go through an art museum today you're bound to run into the occasional ridiculous piece of "modern" art consisting of basically trash. I remember last week I was in LA and visited a museum and came across an art piece that was literally a ladder with a swimming pool toy stuck through it. It's as if the museum put it there to say "hey, bet you never thought that could be considered art, amirite?" If everything is art there must be a distinction between good and bad art.