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The Final Irony of Plato (literature)

Stephen_Hawkins
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5/27/2012 4:31:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Just a quick question, but Plato uses socratic dialogue to represent Socrates speaking, as well as analogy, repetition, hyperbole and imagery in most of his arguments. Also, in Republic, he famously states how rhetoric is bad (and again in Apology). Anyone else see a serious irony issue?
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MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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5/29/2012 12:46:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
This doesn't have anything to do with your thread, but Plato is actually a nickname, meaning "broad shouldered." Thought you'd like to know.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
CiRrK
Posts: 670
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6/3/2012 8:47:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 4:31:54 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
Just a quick question, but Plato uses socratic dialogue to represent Socrates speaking, as well as analogy, repetition, hyperbole and imagery in most of his arguments. Also, in Republic, he famously states how rhetoric is bad (and again in Apology). Anyone else see a serious irony issue?

Read Leo Strauss' analysis of the Republic and the Apology...also Bloom's interpretative essay
CiRrK
Posts: 670
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6/3/2012 8:52:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Also my debate on Plato's Republic can shed light on why Plato finds it necessary to use hyperbole but at the same time have the exoteric text follow a plot line

http://www.debate.org...
carpediem
Posts: 61
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7/21/2012 9:08:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 4:31:54 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
Just a quick question, but Plato uses socratic dialogue to represent Socrates speaking, as well as analogy, repetition, hyperbole and imagery in most of his arguments. Also, in Republic, he famously states how rhetoric is bad (and again in Apology). Anyone else see a serious irony issue?

Plato doesn't believe that rhetoric is in itself an evil. He merely condemns the way in which the sophists of that time period used it: replacing reason with rhetoric, and oratory with logic.
"I would die at the stake rather than change a semi-colon!"
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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7/21/2012 11:31:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 4:31:54 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
Just a quick question, but Plato uses socratic dialogue to represent Socrates speaking, as well as analogy, repetition, hyperbole and imagery in most of his arguments. Also, in Republic, he famously states how rhetoric is bad (and again in Apology). Anyone else see a serious irony issue?

The Fool: No its not rhetoric. why are you hiding this up here. lol. It comes out like that in the Translation from old Greek. The language is simplified, and more of the terms are in a metaphorical sense. It was popular way of that kind of discourse. Back then. Most ancient greek philospohy is in Poem or Story based. So you are comparing apple with oranges. Rhetoric is really bad, its can be used to corrupt dishonestly. And is probally one of the main causes of societies problems. It okay in arts, and ofcourse if you are putting it together with good logical argument.

But he hates the sophists because they argue to win and not for truth value. aka debate value as appose to truth value. (its not just money) For a president may say "vote for change" with mass audience eat up. But there is nothing rational about it. Because there is Bad change as well as Good change. Getting cancer is a bad change. But mass audiences are much more influence to rhetoric even when the reasoning is false,. No very much of the audience is going to understand and have patients to listen to Obama break down the logic of everything. So they just yell 'aphorism" the more educated the society in critical thinking. The less suseptible they will be to rhetoric.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
carpediem
Posts: 61
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7/22/2012 7:50:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Plato doesn't believe that rhetoric is in itself an evil. He merely condemns the way in which the sophists of that time period used it: replacing reason with rhetoric, and oratory with logic.

*logic with oratory* lol
"I would die at the stake rather than change a semi-colon!"