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wtf is so special about Beethoven?

000ike
Posts: 11,196
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7/17/2012 3:16:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I've tried for a very long time to see the genius in his music, especially symphony 9, but I still don't get it. Why does the top video get to be called "THE" 9th symphony, as opposed to the bottom video. Listen to the 1st minute of both videos and tell me that the bottom isn't 10 times better.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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7/17/2012 6:40:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/17/2012 3:16:45 PM, 000ike wrote:
I've tried for a very long time to see the genius in his music, especially symphony 9, but I still don't get it. Why does the top video get to be called "THE" 9th symphony, as opposed to the bottom video. Listen to the 1st minute of both videos and tell me that the bottom isn't 10 times better.

There are a couple reasons why he's considered genius when composing his 9th. First of all, he was completely deaf when he composed it. I give him a ton of credit just for that. Second, it was the first SYMPHONY that used vocals in it. I mean much of listening to music and deciding what is better is just subjective, but Beethoven's ninth is considered his finest work, even though he was deaf. I personally like Beethoven's ninth better than the New World Symphony, Vivaldi's Four Season's is my favorite though.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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7/17/2012 6:44:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Saying that anything is "better" is stupid. People invented aesthetics so that they could have opportunities to exercise their judgment and show off how cultured and tasteful they are. But normativity in art is dumb--it's a positive, creative enterprise for the artist--not just something to be consumed by passive, critical idiots.

They're both pleasant to listen to, and that's good enough for me. End of thread.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/17/2012 6:48:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Haha, I don't know what you're talking about. I love Beethoven.

As for being genius, keep in mind that he wrote much of his works while deaf.
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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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7/17/2012 9:06:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/17/2012 6:44:35 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Saying that anything is "better" is stupid. People invented aesthetics so that they could have opportunities to exercise their judgment and show off how cultured and tasteful they are. But normativity in art is dumb--it's a positive, creative enterprise for the artist--not just something to be consumed by passive, critical idiots.

They're both pleasant to listen to, and that's good enough for me. End of thread.

I hope you're not calling me a passive critical idiot. That's not very kind :/

Composers create their music for other people whether or not as a career or as a hobby. There is limited enjoyment in making music for only oneself...and I say that as a novice music writer myself. It's meant to be criticized and examined by other people and meant to be placed by some kind of standard. I, and the rest of the english speaking world uses the word "better" in a subjective context, depending on what the standard is. I'm not sure why you have a problem with that...or people expressing their opinions for that matter.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Steelerman6794
Posts: 158
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7/17/2012 9:28:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Beethoven is so special because he revolutionized the way people perceived music. He pioneered the transition from the vanilla Classical period to the rich, emotional Romantic era. His Fifth symphony (dah-dah-dah-DUUMMM) was extremely controvertial at first for its epicness, and critics chastised his music as celebrating human emotion (a.k.a. sin) in place of classical Christian restraint. He brought the eighteenth century equivalent of rock and roll to an extremely repressed European society.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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7/18/2012 12:44:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/17/2012 9:06:47 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 7/17/2012 6:44:35 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Saying that anything is "better" is stupid. People invented aesthetics so that they could have opportunities to exercise their judgment and show off how cultured and tasteful they are. But normativity in art is dumb--it's a positive, creative enterprise for the artist--not just something to be consumed by passive, critical idiots.

They're both pleasant to listen to, and that's good enough for me. End of thread.

I hope you're not calling me a passive critical idiot. That's not very kind :/

I hope you're not a passive spectator who conceives of art as an occasion to exercise your sense of good taste. Kindness isn't really relevant.

Composers create their music for other people whether or not as a career or as a hobby. There is limited enjoyment in making music for only oneself...and I say that as a novice music writer myself.

Not true at all. Plenty of people compose, write, paint, etc. without the intention to make public.

It's meant to be criticized and examined by other people and meant to be placed by some kind of standard.

Yeah, and my counterpoint is that aesthetics, as a discipline, is f*cking stupid for precisely that reason, and needs to be thrown out. The notion of taking art, setting it apart from its historical cultural significance, dressing it up in formalities and critical structures, making it just another isolated and partitioned category--all of that is a big pile of dumb. I don't think there's any reason to compartmentalize art as one small piece of culture--I would say, on the contrary, that it deserves the spot in the very center, as a powerful directional force that actually moves culture in some or other direction.

I, and the rest of the english speaking world uses the word "better" in a subjective context, depending on what the standard is. I'm not sure why you have a problem with that...or people expressing their opinions for that matter.

What I have a problem with is the way people treat both art and artists.
BennyW
Posts: 698
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7/18/2012 3:17:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
You can't blame him, he was deaf, and a dog.
Bachalbel was better anyway.
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It's pretty lazy to quote things you disagree with, call it stupid and move on, rather than arguing with the person. -000ike
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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7/18/2012 10:11:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/17/2012 9:28:29 PM, Steelerman6794 wrote:
Beethoven is so special because he revolutionized the way people perceived music. He pioneered the transition from the vanilla Classical period to the rich, emotional Romantic era. His Fifth symphony (dah-dah-dah-DUUMMM) was extremely controvertial at first for its epicness, and critics chastised his music as celebrating human emotion (a.k.a. sin) in place of classical Christian restraint. He brought the eighteenth century equivalent of rock and roll to an extremely repressed European society.

Eh, I would say this though to impose formal criticism and to project (often arbitrary or shaped by cultural standards or even whims) individual critical structures into long-standing artwork, apart from historical significance, is perhaps one of the more definite flaws of aesthetics.
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thett3
Posts: 14,336
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7/18/2012 6:29:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
He slapped around Justin Bieber and has more c0ck than smith and wesson. The man is amazing.

But really, look up his 7th mvt. 2. I personally love it
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Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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8/11/2012 8:31:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/18/2012 6:29:26 PM, thett3 wrote:
He slapped around Justin Bieber and has more c0ck than smith and wesson. The man is amazing.

But really, look up his 7th mvt. 2. I personally love it

Same.
1dustpelt
Posts: 1,970
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8/12/2012 4:36:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/19/2012 2:11:17 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
*Kills a squirrel with a rake to let out frustration*


That is awesome.

And Jean Baptiste Lully is severely underrated.
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