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There should be more money for Arts

True2GaGa
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1/8/2010 2:35:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/8/2010 2:32:56 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
No. Money is best spent elsewhere.

I understand that. For example, at some sschools, the make money selling cookies, fries, and other crap. Where does that money go?
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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1/8/2010 2:38:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Here's an idea: how about funding the military less and putting the money into things that actually helps enhance society such as universal healthcare and the arts. Yes, I hold the arts in high regard as it greatly enhances diversity in our society.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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1/8/2010 2:39:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I agree, depending on what you mean, of course.

The arts industry is huge in Canada, and employs quite a lot of people. I don't remember the exact numbers, but the industry brings in something like 900 million per annum, and that is just with direct revenue. Its an excellent area to invest money in, so long as its actually going to make a profit, which unfortunately, a lot of them sometimes don't.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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1/8/2010 2:40:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Arts industries that can't make a profit without government funds are a drain on society.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
I-am-a-panda
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1/8/2010 2:42:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/8/2010 2:35:46 PM, True2GaGa wrote:
At 1/8/2010 2:32:56 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
No. Money is best spent elsewhere.

I understand that. For example, at some sschools, the make money selling cookies, fries, and other crap. Where does that money go?

Helping to educate students, not teaching them watercolours.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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1/8/2010 2:43:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/8/2010 2:40:31 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Arts industries that can't make a profit without government funds are a drain on society.

I don't think that its very proper for someone who ascribes being a "libertarian" to say what is and isn't a "drain on society" for others.

Drain on the coffers? Sure. But, leave it there.
wjmelements
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1/8/2010 2:45:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/8/2010 2:43:05 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 1/8/2010 2:40:31 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Arts industries that can't make a profit without government funds are a drain on society.

I don't think that its very proper for someone who ascribes being a "libertarian" to say what is and isn't a "drain on society" for others.

What I said is economically objective.

Drain on the coffers? Sure. But, leave it there.

In what ways is sapping money from the pockets of the populace into art that not anybody wants beneficial?
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
True2GaGa
Posts: 1,574
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1/8/2010 2:46:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/8/2010 2:42:30 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/8/2010 2:35:46 PM, True2GaGa wrote:
At 1/8/2010 2:32:56 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
No. Money is best spent elsewhere.

I understand that. For example, at some sschools, the make money selling cookies, fries, and other crap. Where does that money go?

Helping to educate students, not teaching them watercolours.

I hope you understood. I meant music, arts, etc.
I-am-a-panda
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1/8/2010 2:53:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/8/2010 2:46:54 PM, True2GaGa wrote:
At 1/8/2010 2:42:30 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/8/2010 2:35:46 PM, True2GaGa wrote:
At 1/8/2010 2:32:56 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
No. Money is best spent elsewhere.

I understand that. For example, at some sschools, the make money selling cookies, fries, and other crap. Where does that money go?

Helping to educate students, not teaching them watercolours.

I hope you understood. I meant music, arts, etc.

Still better spent educating students in a school.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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1/8/2010 2:57:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/8/2010 2:45:34 PM, wjmelements wrote:
What I said is economically objective.

In what ways is sapping money from the pockets of the populace into art that not anybody wants beneficial?

Oh, so now we're going from "economically objective" to "not anybody wants." Interesting.

The arts industry struggles because of the start up costs associated with getting their art out there, and that is where most subsidies are aimed at. That seems beneficial to me - allowing the arts to flourish and get out there to make a profit.

Yet you say that it isn't beneficial, because it isn't something "not anybody wants." This, to me, seems to speak more to "if the art isn't already popular, then why do I care?," which is a socially subjective statement - "not economically objective."
GeoLaureate8
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1/8/2010 3:00:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/8/2010 2:38:50 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Yes, I hold the arts in high regard as it greatly enhances diversity in our society.

Why should diversity be valued and what are it's benefits? I don't even see a connection between art and diversity, nor do I completely understand your use of the term.

As far as funding arts, I don't think it's practical during tough economic times, but our money is much better spent on arts than killing devices.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
I-am-a-panda
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1/8/2010 3:13:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/8/2010 3:00:05 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 1/8/2010 2:38:50 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Yes, I hold the arts in high regard as it greatly enhances diversity in our society.

Why should diversity be valued and what are it's benefits? I don't even see a connection between art and diversity, nor do I completely understand your use of the term.

Which is exactly what the Freemasons want us to think!


As far as funding arts, I don't think it's practical during tough economic times, but our money is much better spent on arts than killing devices.

I thought the Illuminati funded that.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Volkov
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1/8/2010 3:15:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/8/2010 3:00:05 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Why should diversity be valued and what are it's benefits?

"Diversity," or more simply put, "differences," are the basic building block of human relations. We're only "individuals" on the basis of our differences; we're defined by our different names, different beliefs, different backgrounds, different skin colour, etc. Its diversity that separates us from others on an individual and cultural level, and gives us something to affiliate ourselves with, and present to others. To not value "diversity" is to not value yourself.
PoeJoe
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1/8/2010 4:05:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
This isn't really related, but...

I tend to like paintings and writing from independent painters and writers. And many of these painters and writers--I suspect--may actually refuse such monetary assistance. For many, it's a lifestyle, not being owned by anyone and pursuing your artistic ambitions only for yourself.

Furthermore, there's a certain texture to independent artists. Their work isn't quite as polished. The work feels organic and imperfect. And, quite ironically, many mainstream artists are paid to create folksy, urban art. Sometimes the market specifically favors those that don't want it.

But back to the thread...

Art is important. It defines one's culture. Unfortunately, our modern society is destroying artistic pursuit. So, the government should subsidies art, just as it subsidizes science and education. After all, there's more to being human than money.
Television Rot: http://tvrot.com...
I-am-a-panda
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1/8/2010 4:13:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/8/2010 4:05:33 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
But back to the thread...

Art is important. It defines one's culture. Unfortunately, our modern society is destroying artistic pursuit. So, the government should subsidies art, just as it subsidizes science and education. After all, there's more to being human than money.

Art doesn't have to define culture. There can be a work culture.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Volkov
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1/8/2010 4:18:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/8/2010 4:13:26 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Art doesn't have to define culture. There can be a work culture.

Art has always, and always will be, the main expression of human culture. Even during the various communist reigns of Eastern Europe, art in all forms existed, even if it was suppressed. There cannot be a "work culture" because you cannot express yourself the same way that you can with the arts.
Reasoning
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1/8/2010 5:24:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/8/2010 2:40:31 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Arts industries that can't make a profit without government funds are a drain on society.

We have a winner.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
I-am-a-panda
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1/9/2010 10:54:41 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/8/2010 8:00:38 PM, bonnieluvs wrote:
I do think there should be more money for arts cuz art is an awesome way to express your self

So? I'd love a hooker to express myself but I can't get one with state funding.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
MikeLoviN
Posts: 746
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1/9/2010 11:53:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/9/2010 10:54:41 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/8/2010 8:00:38 PM, bonnieluvs wrote:
I do think there should be more money for arts cuz art is an awesome way to express your self

So? I'd love a hooker to express myself but I can't get one with state funding.

HA! Brilliant. 10/10
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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1/9/2010 9:48:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/9/2010 10:54:41 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/8/2010 8:00:38 PM, bonnieluvs wrote:
I do think there should be more money for arts cuz art is an awesome way to express your self

So? I'd love a hooker to express myself but I can't get one with state funding.

Why doesn't the government fund strip clubs? Doesn't that fall under "Performing Arts"? They're a priceless part of our culture.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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1/10/2010 6:56:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/9/2010 9:48:30 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 1/9/2010 10:54:41 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/8/2010 8:00:38 PM, bonnieluvs wrote:
I do think there should be more money for arts cuz art is an awesome way to express your self

So? I'd love a hooker to express myself but I can't get one with state funding.

Why doesn't the government fund strip clubs? Doesn't that fall under "Performing Arts"? They're a priceless part of our culture.

Exactly. Not to mention pornography is a leading movie industry.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Sky_ace25
Posts: 190
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1/10/2010 7:42:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
That's not politically correct though.

And no I don't think their should be more money for Arts; if you can't make work original enough that it sells then why should their be a giant bank check given to you. Last time I check at least the military pays the way for people going to college.
Of course you never hear about that part >.>.
Seriously, Pluto is no longer a planet?
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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1/10/2010 8:08:11 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I sense a big lack of knowledge on this thread for what exactly is entailed in art subsidies.

What people don't understand, especially the European commentators here, is that the arts funding programs of the US are wildly different from their European counterparts.

One system is direct state funding which supports arts groups from cradle to grave, and usually ends up keeping institutions afloat regardless of income. The other is a mix of public-private funding that complements the industry, but doesn't keep it alive to stagnate like some European countries do, if they are not profitable.

Read this: http://www.arts.gov... - it's informative.
True2GaGa
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1/10/2010 9:09:10 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/9/2010 11:53:08 AM, MikeLoviN wrote:
At 1/9/2010 10:54:41 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/8/2010 8:00:38 PM, bonnieluvs wrote:
I do think there should be more money for arts cuz art is an awesome way to express your self

So? I'd love a hooker to express myself but I can't get one with state funding.

HA! Brilliant. 10/10

Agreed!!!!!!!!!
True2GaGa
Posts: 1,574
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1/10/2010 9:09:35 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/9/2010 9:48:30 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 1/9/2010 10:54:41 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/8/2010 8:00:38 PM, bonnieluvs wrote:
I do think there should be more money for arts cuz art is an awesome way to express your self

So? I'd love a hooker to express myself but I can't get one with state funding.

Why doesn't the government fund strip clubs? Doesn't that fall under "Performing Arts"? They're a priceless part of our culture.

lol
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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1/10/2010 10:32:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/8/2010 2:31:56 PM, True2GaGa wrote:
Any thouughts?

There is plenty of money for arts, it is provided by the consumer. Or at least it should be!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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1/10/2010 10:35:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/8/2010 2:38:50 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Here's an idea: how about funding the military less and putting the money into things that actually helps enhance society such as universal healthcare and the arts. Yes, I hold the arts in high regard as it greatly enhances diversity in our society.

Why should Government money be spent on the arts?
Art is fun, thought provoking, beautiful, evocative etc etc... and avaliable on the market.

Why do we want to enhance 'diversity' in our society anyway?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.