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The Rape Tunnel.

popculturepooka
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2/23/2010 10:05:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
http://www.artlurker.com...

WTF!?

Money quote:

"At the end of the tunnel the subject will find me waiting in the project room and I'll try to the best of my ability to overpower and rape the person who crawls through."

Is this really art?
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Ore_Ele
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2/23/2010 10:09:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Is there a criminal charge for "conspiracy for rape"? like the "conspiracy for murder".
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Xer
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2/23/2010 10:15:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
That whole article and that person is absolute win.

I'm assuming lawyers will argue that it's not really rape because it's consensual. This is hilarious though.
PoeJoe
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2/23/2010 10:17:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
If you have to knowingly go though a 22 foot tunnel to get raped...then isn't that just sex? I mean, you know full well that you're going to be raped...so isn't that like consent?
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belle
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2/23/2010 10:21:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/23/2010 10:15:15 PM, Nags wrote:
That whole article and that person is absolute win.

I'm assuming lawyers will argue that it's not really rape because it's consensual. This is hilarious though.

no one can sensibly argue that its rape. he announced what will happen at the end of the tunnel, and people are completely free to not enter.

if anyone actually does they are either desperate or stupid. or both!

i do rather wonder if he'd go through with it though...
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Ore_Ele
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2/23/2010 10:21:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/23/2010 10:17:57 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
If you have to knowingly go though a 22 foot tunnel to get raped...then isn't that just sex? I mean, you know full well that you're going to be raped...so isn't that like consent?

No, becuase that opens up the door, She got so drunk at that party that she must have previously know that it was going to lead to rape, ergo she concented in her own way. Or the whole "she was asking for it with those short skirts."
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ragnar_Rahl
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2/23/2010 10:26:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
It's not really art because, you know, it's not really real.

No, becuase that opens up the door, She got so drunk at that party that she must have previously know that it was going to lead to rape, ergo she concented in her own way. Or the whole "she was asking for it with those short skirts."
As long as stuff is clearly posted, no. It bears no relation to such defenses. The party and the skirt do not have a "rape" label.

Though if anyone wants to go through a real one I advise a guard that doesn't let people through without signing a form at the very least.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
belle
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2/23/2010 10:32:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/23/2010 10:21:31 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 2/23/2010 10:17:57 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
If you have to knowingly go though a 22 foot tunnel to get raped...then isn't that just sex? I mean, you know full well that you're going to be raped...so isn't that like consent?

No, becuase that opens up the door, She got so drunk at that party that she must have previously know that it was going to lead to rape, ergo she concented in her own way. Or the whole "she was asking for it with those short skirts."

it might be analagous if the girl went to a party, some guy offered her a beer and said, if you drink this you are consenting to be raped. and the label on the beer was "rapist ale" or something.

otherwise noooooot so much.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
popculturepooka
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2/23/2010 10:39:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/23/2010 10:17:57 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
If you have to knowingly go though a 22 foot tunnel to get raped...then isn't that just sex? I mean, you know full well that you're going to be raped...so isn't that like consent?

If a person changes their mind while having "sex" then it clearly is rape.

And from the article:

""It would seem that what you are proposing to do will not technically constitute rape for the obvious reason that whoever enters into the tunnel is acting of their own free will, therefore making the act consensual. If you aren't really raping anyone, doesn't that undermine the credibility of the project?"

First of all, I want to make it clear that I plan to make the experience as unpleasant as I possibly can to anyone who dares to crawl through the tunnel. I will try to the best of my ability to make them regret their decision."

So, yeah, I could definitely see someone changing their mind during the act if he meant it.
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Ragnar_Rahl
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2/23/2010 10:42:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/23/2010 10:39:23 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 2/23/2010 10:17:57 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
If you have to knowingly go though a 22 foot tunnel to get raped...then isn't that just sex? I mean, you know full well that you're going to be raped...so isn't that like consent?

If a person changes their mind while having "sex" then it clearly is rape.
That's like saying if someone leases out their property, signs the deal, and changes their mind afterward it is clearly trespassing
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
popculturepooka
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2/23/2010 10:45:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/23/2010 10:42:56 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 2/23/2010 10:39:23 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 2/23/2010 10:17:57 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
If you have to knowingly go though a 22 foot tunnel to get raped...then isn't that just sex? I mean, you know full well that you're going to be raped...so isn't that like consent?

If a person changes their mind while having "sex" then it clearly is rape.
That's like saying if someone leases out their property, signs the deal, and changes their mind afterward it is clearly trespassing

Not really.
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Ragnar_Rahl
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2/23/2010 10:48:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/23/2010 10:45:24 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 2/23/2010 10:42:56 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 2/23/2010 10:39:23 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 2/23/2010 10:17:57 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
If you have to knowingly go though a 22 foot tunnel to get raped...then isn't that just sex? I mean, you know full well that you're going to be raped...so isn't that like consent?

If a person changes their mind while having "sex" then it clearly is rape.
That's like saying if someone leases out their property, signs the deal, and changes their mind afterward it is clearly trespassing

Not really.

Yes really. You say yes, go through with it after taking the condition offered to get you to say yes, then back out of the deal after already receiving said condition. In other words, backing out, unless the deal specifies a means to do so, is fraud.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ore_Ele
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2/23/2010 10:49:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/23/2010 10:32:30 PM, belle wrote:
At 2/23/2010 10:21:31 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 2/23/2010 10:17:57 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
If you have to knowingly go though a 22 foot tunnel to get raped...then isn't that just sex? I mean, you know full well that you're going to be raped...so isn't that like consent?

No, becuase that opens up the door, She got so drunk at that party that she must have previously know that it was going to lead to rape, ergo she concented in her own way. Or the whole "she was asking for it with those short skirts."

it might be analagous if the girl went to a party, some guy offered her a beer and said, if you drink this you are consenting to be raped. and the label on the beer was "rapist ale" or something.

otherwise noooooot so much.

That still doesn't give him the authority to do make or enforce such an "agreement."

What if I said, if you breathe, you are consenting to rape. And you breathe?
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Ragnar_Rahl
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2/23/2010 10:50:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/23/2010 10:49:14 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 2/23/2010 10:32:30 PM, belle wrote:
At 2/23/2010 10:21:31 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 2/23/2010 10:17:57 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
If you have to knowingly go though a 22 foot tunnel to get raped...then isn't that just sex? I mean, you know full well that you're going to be raped...so isn't that like consent?

No, becuase that opens up the door, She got so drunk at that party that she must have previously know that it was going to lead to rape, ergo she concented in her own way. Or the whole "she was asking for it with those short skirts."

it might be analagous if the girl went to a party, some guy offered her a beer and said, if you drink this you are consenting to be raped. and the label on the beer was "rapist ale" or something.

otherwise noooooot so much.

That still doesn't give him the authority to do make or enforce such an "agreement."

What if I said, if you breathe, you are consenting to rape. And you breathe?

Does he own your lungs? No.

He does, presumably, own the tunnel.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
belle
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2/23/2010 10:58:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/23/2010 10:49:14 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 2/23/2010 10:32:30 PM, belle wrote:
At 2/23/2010 10:21:31 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 2/23/2010 10:17:57 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
If you have to knowingly go though a 22 foot tunnel to get raped...then isn't that just sex? I mean, you know full well that you're going to be raped...so isn't that like consent?

No, becuase that opens up the door, She got so drunk at that party that she must have previously know that it was going to lead to rape, ergo she concented in her own way. Or the whole "she was asking for it with those short skirts."

it might be analagous if the girl went to a party, some guy offered her a beer and said, if you drink this you are consenting to be raped. and the label on the beer was "rapist ale" or something.

otherwise noooooot so much.

That still doesn't give him the authority to do make or enforce such an "agreement."

What if I said, if you breathe, you are consenting to rape. And you breathe?

that could be easily misconstrued. people breathe all the time without even thinking about it. :P

furthermore, the choice "let me rape you or suffocate" is not a valid choice to offer. its like holding a gun to someone's head.

on the other hand, "go about your normal life completely unmolested, or walk into this tunnel and be raped" offers a real option. walking into a tunnel clearly labeled RAPE TUNNEL knowing full well that the inhabitant of said tunnel has promised to rape you if you do so (and given past behavior knowing he will probably go through with it) is more than involved enough to be construed as consent. how could you possibly claim you didn't know what you were getting into?
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Cerebral_Narcissist
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2/24/2010 2:13:07 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
If the victim does not state consent, changes their mind before or during the sex act, yet sex still progresses then a rape case can be made.
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Danielle
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2/25/2010 2:54:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/23/2010 10:48:52 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:

That's like saying if someone leases out their property, signs the deal, and changes their mind afterward it is clearly trespassing


Yes really. You say yes, go through with it after taking the condition offered to get you to say yes, then back out of the deal after already receiving said condition. In other words, backing out, unless the deal specifies a means to do so, is fraud.

No, not really. One is a written contract with standards written in black and white, and one is a verbal contract that is not as binding. One can start having sex and then change their mind about wanting to continue. Once they change their mind and vocalize it, any forced action past that point is non-consensual and rape. Not to mention that I might agree to have sex with someone but I might not agree to have them do certain sexual things. If they continue to do those things that I don't want them to after I tell them to stop then again it's rape. In other words, one's mind can change on a moment to moment basis during sex. That doesn't happen with a lease agreement.
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J.Kenyon
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2/25/2010 3:25:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/23/2010 10:42:56 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:

That's like saying if someone leases out their property, signs the deal, and changes their mind afterward it is clearly trespassing

I love it when you talk dirty like that ; )
Ragnar_Rahl
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2/25/2010 8:55:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/25/2010 2:54:26 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 2/23/2010 10:48:52 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:

That's like saying if someone leases out their property, signs the deal, and changes their mind afterward it is clearly trespassing


Yes really. You say yes, go through with it after taking the condition offered to get you to say yes, then back out of the deal after already receiving said condition. In other words, backing out, unless the deal specifies a means to do so, is fraud.

No, not really. One is a written contract with standards written in black and white, and one is a verbal contract that is not as binding.
What magically releases spoken words of the power to constitute contracts? Granted, it's generally more difficult to PROVE that someone spoke given words, but that doesn't apply in this instance.
Not to mention that I might agree to have sex with someone but I might not agree to have them do certain sexual things. If they continue to do those things that I don't want them to after I tell them to stop then again it's rape.
Aside from the fact that you didn't specify, that clearly conflicts with any reasonable expectation of what happens when you walk into a "rape tunnel."

In other words, one's mind can change on a moment to moment basis during sex.
By current law? Probably. But what justification is there for it?

That doesn't happen with a lease agreement.
Again, why? Other than the courts being inconsistent folks.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Korashk
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2/25/2010 9:58:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Someone mentioned that you can change your mind during consensual sex and if it doesn't stop then it's rape. That wouodn't really apply here. The 'victim' isn't consenting to sex, they are consenting to rape.

I think R_R has the correct mindset here.
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popculturepooka
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2/25/2010 10:25:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/25/2010 9:58:26 PM, Korashk wrote:
Someone mentioned that you can change your mind during consensual sex and if it doesn't stop then it's rape. That wouodn't really apply here. The 'victim' isn't consenting to sex, they are consenting to rape.

I think R_R has the correct mindset here.

It's impossible to consent to rape - that would be a contradiction in terms.
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Ragnar_Rahl
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2/25/2010 10:48:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/25/2010 10:25:59 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 2/25/2010 9:58:26 PM, Korashk wrote:
Someone mentioned that you can change your mind during consensual sex and if it doesn't stop then it's rape. That wouodn't really apply here. The 'victim' isn't consenting to sex, they are consenting to rape.

I think R_R has the correct mindset here.

It's impossible to consent to rape - that would be a contradiction in terms.

For all intents and purposes you're equivocating. By definition, what occurs in this "rape tunnel", since it is structured such that one only goes in if one consents to have just about any possible sexual act someone might have a whim for, is not rape in the sense of nonconsensual sex, rather it's "rape" in that it is sex with a structured pattern designed to simulate patterns stereotypical to nonconsensual sex.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
popculturepooka
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2/25/2010 11:12:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/25/2010 10:48:44 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 2/25/2010 10:25:59 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 2/25/2010 9:58:26 PM, Korashk wrote:
Someone mentioned that you can change your mind during consensual sex and if it doesn't stop then it's rape. That wouodn't really apply here. The 'victim' isn't consenting to sex, they are consenting to rape.

I think R_R has the correct mindset here.

It's impossible to consent to rape - that would be a contradiction in terms.

For all intents and purposes you're equivocating. By definition, what occurs in this "rape tunnel", since it is structured such that one only goes in if one consents to have just about any possible sexual act someone might have a whim for, is not rape in the sense of nonconsensual sex, rather it's "rape" in that it is sex with a structured pattern designed to simulate patterns stereotypical to nonconsensual sex.

I'd have to see the contract for the rape tunnel because it's hard for me to believe that it states that the potential "victim" is consenting to any possible sexual act, and presumably, some violence committed towards them.
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Ragnar_Rahl
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2/26/2010 2:52:49 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/25/2010 11:12:00 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 2/25/2010 10:48:44 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 2/25/2010 10:25:59 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 2/25/2010 9:58:26 PM, Korashk wrote:
Someone mentioned that you can change your mind during consensual sex and if it doesn't stop then it's rape. That wouodn't really apply here. The 'victim' isn't consenting to sex, they are consenting to rape.

I think R_R has the correct mindset here.

It's impossible to consent to rape - that would be a contradiction in terms.

For all intents and purposes you're equivocating. By definition, what occurs in this "rape tunnel", since it is structured such that one only goes in if one consents to have just about any possible sexual act someone might have a whim for, is not rape in the sense of nonconsensual sex, rather it's "rape" in that it is sex with a structured pattern designed to simulate patterns stereotypical to nonconsensual sex.

I'd have to see the contract for the rape tunnel because it's hard for me to believe that it states that the potential "victim" is consenting to any possible sexual act
Says right there on the sign: Rape tunnel. To walk in is to consent to be "raped," i.e., to have sex without a whole lot of input into what manner it is in aside from the input one can have by not walking in.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
brian_eggleston
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2/26/2010 4:28:12 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
The artist plans to place himself in a room, the only entrance or exit being a 22 ft long plywood tunnel constructed by Whitehurst himself. Then he says that for the duration of the gallery's opening (from 7:00 p.m. to midnight) he will rape anyone who travels through the tunnel into that room.

22 ft long but it doesn't say how wide the tunnel wil be.

If I were the artist I would make it quite narrow to prevent any fat chicks getting in.
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Cody_Franklin
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2/26/2010 5:26:14 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 4:28:12 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
The artist plans to place himself in a room, the only entrance or exit being a 22 ft long plywood tunnel constructed by Whitehurst himself. Then he says that for the duration of the gallery's opening (from 7:00 p.m. to midnight) he will rape anyone who travels through the tunnel into that room.

22 ft long but it doesn't say how wide the tunnel wil be.

If I were the artist I would make it quite narrow to prevent any fat chicks getting in.

"The tunnel is constructed in such a way that it gets smaller the closer you get to the project room. The bigger you are, the more difficult it is to comfortably crawl out. "
Danielle
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3/5/2010 8:38:24 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/25/2010 9:58:26 PM, Korashk wrote:
Someone mentioned that you can change your mind during consensual sex and if it doesn't stop then it's rape. That wouodn't really apply here. The 'victim' isn't consenting to sex, they are consenting to rape.

I think R_R has the correct mindset here.

First of all, it absolutely does apply here and it applies in every sexual situation. If I was okay with having sex with you, and we started having sex but then I asked you to stop, and you didn't stop - it would be rape. And similarly, in this situation it would be considered rape as well. That's why many S&M couples have "safe words" they use to indicate that they really want the person to stop. PCP is correct in saying that you can't consent to rape. To do so would go against the very definition of rape. The rape tunnel as Ragnar implied exists as a mechanism to simulate a situation similar to rape, presumably because a lot of people have rape fantasies. Vi and I talked extensively about this once. I explained that if you want to be raped, it's not rape. It's ONLY rape if someone forces sex upon you when you DON'T want it and don't consent to it. Entering the tunnel is consent. It's not rape. It's rape if the instigator doesn't stop when instructed to do so.
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Danielle
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3/5/2010 8:45:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/25/2010 8:55:12 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:

What magically releases spoken words of the power to constitute contracts? Granted, it's generally more difficult to PROVE that someone spoke given words, but that doesn't apply in this instance.

I never said that spoken words weren't a valid form of contract. What I said was that if someone changed their mind during sex and said to stop, then this would have to be respected or else be considered rape. Sex, unlike leases (so your analogy was bad which is what I was trying to say) is on a moment to moment basis and not something agreed upon for a set amount of time like a lease. I can say "You can have sex with me any way you want for 5 minutes." But if 3 minutes into it I change my mind, you'd have to stop or else continuing would be rape despite what I said a few minutes earlier. If you don't believe me, try it with a girl sometime and see how your defense holds up in court.

Aside from the fact that you didn't specify, that clearly conflicts with any reasonable expectation of what happens when you walk into a "rape tunnel."

Consenting to rape eliminates the element of rape. Agreeing to walk into a rape tunnel just means you're agreeing to simulate a situation which mimicks rape.

In other words, one's mind can change on a moment to moment basis during sex.
By current law? Probably. But what justification is there for it?

Every individual 'owns' their own body and a verbal agreement to have sex (which, by the way, doesn't usually occur before intercourse anyway) doesn't give authority to unlimited use of another's body for a set amount of time.

That doesn't happen with a lease agreement.
Again, why? Other than the courts being inconsistent folks.

Just explained it. A lease agreement is a contract designated for a specific amount of time and with specific do's and don'ts.
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