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"World music"

Yvette
Posts: 859
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7/16/2010 8:24:47 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
http://en.wikipedia.org...

It bothers me. I listen to a lot of music that would be considered "world music", but I find the idea of separating non-Western music, and only listening to non-Western traditional music, ethnocentric. If you want to appreciate other cultures, don't just listen to the (usually made by or for white people) "world music". Listen to the music that culture isn't producing just for you.

Many of the cultures they are supposedly "getting in touch with" through world music are producing music that isn't marketed towards whites. If you can appreciate Native Americans chanting and feel special about it, you can appreciate modern Arabic pop or French rap. Etc.

Rap/etc isn't world music, but I want to bring it up. Seems like much of the mainstream rap industry amounts to selling to whites. Yet many whites won't look past what's marketed for white people, and listen to what the black community is producing on it's own.

Honestly, this was more of a mini-rant. Thoughts?
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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7/16/2010 8:40:45 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Marketing-- providing information about the availability of a product.

When there is a steady stream of information sent at you on the availability of something you like, and its enough to keep you busy, why spend time looking for others of the same thing? Picking the low-hanging fruit is just basic economic sense.

Incidentally, yeuch, rap, yeuch, pop, yeuch, "world music" :P.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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7/16/2010 3:37:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Yeah world music is a BS term. Brazillian music isn't world music in Brazil and Nepalese music isn't world music in Nepal. To lump all these styles along with other disparate ones like Irish folk and Nigerian Afro-beat all under one heading is obvious nonsense.

World music isn't a genre. It's just a label for stuff people listen to if they want to present themself as a cultured, well-travelled global citizen.

I don't really understand your point about "rap" music though Yvette. White people have always bought hip hop in large numbers and from NWA through Run DMC, back to Sugahill gang, the only way to have real commercial success in hip hop is if white people buy your records.

I'm not sure what you mean about marketing to white people either. I think it's natural that a lot of white people will be more interested in the novelty of a white rapper and perhaps identify more with them, other than that I'm not sure what aspects of marketing you think are aimed specifically at white people.

A lot of people of all colours buy into the thug BS materialism of mainstream hip hop and a lot of people of all colours also appreciate real and underground hip hop.
Yvette
Posts: 859
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7/16/2010 3:47:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/16/2010 3:37:01 PM, feverish wrote:
Yeah world music is a BS term. Brazillian music isn't world music in Brazil and Nepalese music isn't world music in Nepal. To lump all these styles along with other disparate ones like Irish folk and Nigerian Afro-beat all under one heading is obvious nonsense.

World music isn't a genre. It's just a label for stuff people listen to if they want to present themself as a cultured, well-travelled global citizen.

*nod*

I don't really understand your point about "rap" music though Yvette. White people have always bought hip hop in large numbers and from NWA through Run DMC, back to Sugahill gang, the only way to have real commercial success in hip hop is if white people buy your records.

I'm not sure what you mean about marketing to white people either. I think it's natural that a lot of white people will be more interested in the novelty of a white rapper and perhaps identify more with them, other than that I'm not sure what aspects of marketing you think are aimed specifically at white people.

When I say marketing to white people, I don't mean using a white rapper. I mean appealing to whites, who, as you said, are a big part of the rap industry's success. Whites love to pay for black exploitation. They listen to "black music". The rap industry tries to appeal to the mainstream, the mainstream is white America and what white America approves of. Make white America uncomfortable, it's not mainstream. Try and get whites to listen to rap that isn't mainstream, that isn't blacks being exploited, that is made by blacks, for blacks, and is deeper, more art/music than mainstream rap, and they reject it. It's like the difference between Jay Z and dead prez. One's "cool" to listen to, because you're "part of black culture" even though the music is mainstream and white...icized, the second is part of black culture (I think--as someone who isn't part of black culture, I don't pretend to be sure) but isn't cool to listen to. Because we can't deal with people's real culture, we have to deal with versions that are acceptable to us. Chinese food's a great example--how many white people (myself included) love "Chinese food" but would probably scream if offered real Chinese food?

Hopefully I made sense.

A lot of people of all colours buy into the thug BS materialism of mainstream hip hop and a lot of people of all colours also appreciate real and underground hip hop.

Of course, non-whites aren't excluded by the rap industry.
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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7/16/2010 5:18:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/16/2010 3:47:41 PM, Yvette wrote:
At 7/16/2010 3:37:01 PM, feverish wrote:

Hopefully I made sense.

Sorry, but not really to me, no.

When I say marketing to white people, I don't mean using a white rapper. I mean appealing to whites, who, as you said, are a big part of the rap industry's success. Whites love to pay for black exploitation.

I think a lot of black people are also avid consumers of black exploitation.
I'm still not sure what aspects of marketing you think are aimed specifically at white people.

They listen to "black music". The rap industry tries to appeal to the mainstream, the mainstream is white America and what white America approves of. Make white America uncomfortable, it's not mainstream. Try and get whites to listen to rap that isn't mainstream, that isn't blacks being exploited, that is made by blacks, for blacks, and is deeper, more art/music than mainstream rap, and they reject it.

I don't think so. I think a lot of people (any colour) will reject deeper, more meaningful stuff. But obviously anyone who really wants to listen to "black music" is likely to seek out and embrace whatever they feel is the most authentic.

It's like the difference between Jay Z and dead prez. One's "cool" to listen to, because you're "part of black culture" even though the music is mainstream and white...icized, the second is part of black culture (I think--as someone who isn't part of black culture, I don't pretend to be sure) but isn't cool to listen to.

Hmm okay. Well to me Jay-Z and Dead Prez are no more "part of black culture" than Eminem is "part of white culture". They are all part of hip hop culture which is not just "a black thing".

Hip hop includes rapping, DJing, breaking and grafiti. People of all colours engage in these activities.

Grafiti has probably always been least popular with black people and perhaps most popular with white people although a lot of the early New York legends were hispanic. Breaking was originally mostly latinos and black kids, but white Europeans and East Asians dominate the competitions now. Most of the pioneer DJs may have been black but white people and Americans of Asian background have been winning the DMC for decades too.

Most rappers are black and that's always been the case, but rapping is no more exclusive to black people than concert violin is to white people.

Mainstream America may want to use the image of the angry black rapper to tie hip hop into any negative stereotype it perceives about black people and gang violence but this doesn't stop the true culture being accessible to anyone who lives it.

I'm a white British guy in my 30s and I'm no gangster but I am hip hop.

To be honest I think Jay-Z and Dead Prez are particularly bad examples for the point you're trying to make.

Jay-Z may be a pop star now but at least he has some skills and a legacy, unlike 50 cent, Little Wayne, Souljah boy etc. Jay-Z definitely appeals to black people as well as white. Just because white people buy all the concert tickets doesn't mean black people don't want to see the show too lol.

I defintely prefer Dead Prez to Jay-Z and I'm sure plenty of other white people do too. Sure there are certain tunes of theirs like Behind Enemy Lines that wouldn't be that accessible to a mainstream audience, but I've played Hip Hop (tune by Dead Prez) to white student crowds and they've gone crazy for it.
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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7/17/2010 7:28:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I didn't know of the term "world music" before now. It really can't be classified as a genre. A part of me wants to be offended at what this insinuates, but if it makes the music more mainstream then I can't really complain. This kind of reminds me of something someone once told me about Chinese food--in China, it's just "food".
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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7/17/2010 8:35:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 7:28:16 PM, TulleKrazy wrote:
I didn't know of the term "world music" before now. It really can't be classified as a genre. A part of me wants to be offended at what this insinuates, but if it makes the music more mainstream then I can't really complain. This kind of reminds me of something someone once told me about Chinese food--in China, it's just "food".

So apple pie isn't as American as apple pie in America?

P

(No, it isn't just "food." For one thing, most Chinese rarely eat much with recipes more than superficially resembling "Chinese food" as we call it, I seem to recall the American version of Chinese food being mostly based on recipes used for celebrations and whatnot. For another, it's a useful way for people in China to distinguish it from the Mcdonalds that are more prevalent there every day, just like sometimes Americans really do wanna eat "Real American food," although, despite not just calling it "food," they might call it "Homestyle" or some such).
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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7/18/2010 11:22:06 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 8:35:57 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 7/17/2010 7:28:16 PM, TulleKrazy wrote:
I didn't know of the term "world music" before now. It really can't be classified as a genre. A part of me wants to be offended at what this insinuates, but if it makes the music more mainstream then I can't really complain. This kind of reminds me of something someone once told me about Chinese food--in China, it's just "food".

So apple pie isn't as American as apple pie in America?

P

(No, it isn't just "food." For one thing, most Chinese rarely eat much with recipes more than superficially resembling "Chinese food" as we call it, I seem to recall the American version of Chinese food being mostly based on recipes used for celebrations and whatnot. For another, it's a useful way for people in China to distinguish it from the Mcdonalds that are more prevalent there every day, just like sometimes Americans really do wanna eat "Real American food," although, despite not just calling it "food," they might call it "Homestyle" or some such).

Thank you for analyzing a silly joke... I don't walk around saying "I'm hungry. I want North American food." It's just food. Then are several sub-classes of food that I might use to specify what type of food I want but in general, everyday conversation I don't say "North American food". When your mother calls you for dinner, does she say "American food is on the table!" Besides, I was drawing a comparison with "food" to "music". As someone previously stated, in Nigeria, it's not called "world music", it's just music. But we call the genre "Afro-beat". Just like in North America, we just call it music (not "world music"), and then there are several genres that we use to classify music.

...Sigh.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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7/18/2010 11:30:38 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
"n Nigeria, it's not called "world music", it's just music."
Certainly not called world music, but I doubt highly it's just called "music."
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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7/18/2010 11:44:14 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/18/2010 11:30:38 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
"n Nigeria, it's not called "world music", it's just music."
Certainly not called world music, but I doubt highly it's just called "music."

I just asked my father (I'm Nigerian). They specify what type of music they want to play, that is, "American music" or "modern music" or "Afro-beat" but in general, "music is music" and if they want it in a specific language they specify that.

I mean, in North America, North American music is just music. But we specify genres rather that just calling it "music" and genres transcend continents... I really don't remember my original point anymore so maybe I'm not making sense.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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7/18/2010 11:45:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/16/2010 8:24:47 AM, Yvette wrote:
Rap/etc isn't world music, but I want to bring it up. Seems like much of the mainstream rap industry amounts to selling to whites. Yet many whites won't look past what's marketed for white people, and listen to what the black community is producing on it's own.

http://lyrics.wikia.com...
President of DDO
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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7/18/2010 11:50:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I mean, in North America, North American music is just music.
Not where I live. Unless, you know, you're in a social group where everyone already shares a taste in genre. But that's an unusual circumstance.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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7/18/2010 12:56:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/18/2010 11:22:06 AM, TulleKrazy wrote:
As someone previously stated, in Nigeria, it's not called "world music", it's just music. But we call the genre "Afro-beat". Just like in North America, we just call it music (not "world music"), and then there are several genres that we use to classify music.

Nigerian Afro-beat is awesome with loads of funk and jazz elements, plus it's normally in English (or slang versions of English) and is pretty accessible.

The first time I heard Fela Kuti I was blown away although it can get a bit samey after a while.

Ironically, the actual beat is often my least favourite part of a lot of Afro-beat stuff.
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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7/18/2010 4:59:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/18/2010 12:56:11 PM, feverish wrote:
At 7/18/2010 11:22:06 AM, TulleKrazy wrote:
As someone previously stated, in Nigeria, it's not called "world music", it's just music. But we call the genre "Afro-beat". Just like in North America, we just call it music (not "world music"), and then there are several genres that we use to classify music.



Nigerian Afro-beat is awesome with loads of funk and jazz elements, plus it's normally in English (or slang versions of English) and is pretty accessible.

The first time I heard Fela Kuti I was blown away although it can get a bit samey after a while.

Ironically, the actual beat is often my least favourite part of a lot of Afro-beat stuff.

The beat is what gets me to dance (I can't dance so I tend to avoid it haha) but this is one of my favourites.
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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7/19/2010 5:34:16 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/18/2010 4:59:50 PM, TulleKrazy wrote:

The beat is what gets me to dance (I can't dance so I tend to avoid it haha) but this is one of my favourites.

Cool, that's not really the kind of thing I think of when I think of afro-beat drums though. I guess I know more older stuff and that sounds much more contemporary, with a programmed beat rather than live drums.

It sounds more like Reggaeton than anything else to me, with a lot of hip hop and Carribean elements. Nice though.
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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7/19/2010 12:46:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/19/2010 5:34:16 AM, feverish wrote:
At 7/18/2010 4:59:50 PM, TulleKrazy wrote:

The beat is what gets me to dance (I can't dance so I tend to avoid it haha) but this is one of my favourites.

Cool, that's not really the kind of thing I think of when I think of afro-beat drums though. I guess I know more older stuff and that sounds much more contemporary, with a programmed beat rather than live drums.


Yeah I don't really know the traditional stuff.. I'm going there for the first time in over a decade so hopefully I can get educated on the culture lol
It sounds more like Reggaeton than anything else to me, with a lot of hip hop and Carribean elements. Nice though.