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What is Art?

bsh1
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10/7/2015 8:10:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
This seems like a fairly basic question, but I've heard so many responses to it. Many people assert that modern art (like Damien Hirst's mass-produces dot paintings) are not real art. Is this just a no-true scotsman fallacy, though? Similarly, I have heard that a beautiful human body or a picturesque setting in nature is art. But does something require artistic intent behind it to be really art?

So, what is art, and what is art not? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
Live Long and Prosper

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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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1harderthanyouthink
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10/7/2015 8:15:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Art is what you make it.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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bsh1
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10/7/2015 8:21:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 8:15:23 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Art is what you make it.

That's really vague. Maybe we can make progress through excluding things, and hopefully narrow the range of possible things that could be art. Is there anything that you think is NOT art?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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1harderthanyouthink
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10/7/2015 8:35:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 8:21:36 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:15:23 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Art is what you make it.

That's really vague. Maybe we can make progress through excluding things, and hopefully narrow the range of possible things that could be art. Is there anything that you think is NOT art?

It's supposed to be vague, but that's the nature of it. Art isn't some restricted formula - it's based solely on how someone sees something.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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bsh1
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10/7/2015 8:39:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 8:35:59 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:21:36 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:15:23 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Art is what you make it.

That's really vague. Maybe we can make progress through excluding things, and hopefully narrow the range of possible things that could be art. Is there anything that you think is NOT art?

It's supposed to be vague, but that's the nature of it. Art isn't some restricted formula - it's based solely on how someone sees something.

I have a real problem with this...a real problem with this. By this understanding, EVERYTHING could be "art." When everything is art, "art" loses it's meaning as a term or concept. We derive meaning through exclusion; the word "milk" has meaning because I exclude lots of stuff from it. I know what milk is by knowing what it is not. But if art is everything, then it is simultaneously nothing, because everything I touch or see or feel is art, and lowers the value placed on the term significantly.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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1harderthanyouthink
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10/7/2015 8:41:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 8:39:11 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:35:59 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:21:36 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:15:23 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Art is what you make it.

That's really vague. Maybe we can make progress through excluding things, and hopefully narrow the range of possible things that could be art. Is there anything that you think is NOT art?

It's supposed to be vague, but that's the nature of it. Art isn't some restricted formula - it's based solely on how someone sees something.

I have a real problem with this...a real problem with this. By this understanding, EVERYTHING could be "art." When everything is art, "art" loses it's meaning as a term or concept. We derive meaning through exclusion; the word "milk" has meaning because I exclude lots of stuff from it. I know what milk is by knowing what it is not. But if art is everything, then it is simultaneously nothing, because everything I touch or see or feel is art, and lowers the value placed on the term significantly.

Anything could be used artistically, but not everything is art. You put value on it, not someone else.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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10/7/2015 8:52:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 8:41:27 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:39:11 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:35:59 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:21:36 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:15:23 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Art is what you make it.

That's really vague. Maybe we can make progress through excluding things, and hopefully narrow the range of possible things that could be art. Is there anything that you think is NOT art?

It's supposed to be vague, but that's the nature of it. Art isn't some restricted formula - it's based solely on how someone sees something.

I have a real problem with this...a real problem with this. By this understanding, EVERYTHING could be "art." When everything is art, "art" loses it's meaning as a term or concept. We derive meaning through exclusion; the word "milk" has meaning because I exclude lots of stuff from it. I know what milk is by knowing what it is not. But if art is everything, then it is simultaneously nothing, because everything I touch or see or feel is art, and lowers the value placed on the term significantly.

Anything could be used artistically, but not everything is art. You put value on it, not someone else.

Okay. So what is "art?"
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,098
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10/7/2015 8:58:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 8:52:32 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:41:27 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:39:11 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:35:59 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:21:36 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:15:23 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Art is what you make it.

That's really vague. Maybe we can make progress through excluding things, and hopefully narrow the range of possible things that could be art. Is there anything that you think is NOT art?

It's supposed to be vague, but that's the nature of it. Art isn't some restricted formula - it's based solely on how someone sees something.

I have a real problem with this...a real problem with this. By this understanding, EVERYTHING could be "art." When everything is art, "art" loses it's meaning as a term or concept. We derive meaning through exclusion; the word "milk" has meaning because I exclude lots of stuff from it. I know what milk is by knowing what it is not. But if art is everything, then it is simultaneously nothing, because everything I touch or see or feel is art, and lowers the value placed on the term significantly.

Anything could be used artistically, but not everything is art. You put value on it, not someone else.

Okay. So what is "art?"

What it is to me is not necessarily what it is to anyone else. It's more fluid than rigid.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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10/7/2015 9:02:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 8:58:43 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:52:32 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:41:27 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:39:11 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:35:59 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:21:36 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:15:23 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Art is what you make it.

That's really vague. Maybe we can make progress through excluding things, and hopefully narrow the range of possible things that could be art. Is there anything that you think is NOT art?

It's supposed to be vague, but that's the nature of it. Art isn't some restricted formula - it's based solely on how someone sees something.

I have a real problem with this...a real problem with this. By this understanding, EVERYTHING could be "art." When everything is art, "art" loses it's meaning as a term or concept. We derive meaning through exclusion; the word "milk" has meaning because I exclude lots of stuff from it. I know what milk is by knowing what it is not. But if art is everything, then it is simultaneously nothing, because everything I touch or see or feel is art, and lowers the value placed on the term significantly.

Anything could be used artistically, but not everything is art. You put value on it, not someone else.

Okay. So what is "art?"

What it is to me is not necessarily what it is to anyone else. It's more fluid than rigid.

Then we get into the exact problem I described. If "Art" is totally subjective, without any limitations at all, then everything is art, because there will be someone out there who conceives of it that way. Are there ANY restrictions on what is or is not art?

For instance, is the man (not the picture, but the person) in my picture "art?" Is a willow tree art? Is this art [http://static.guim.co.uk...] (it is Hirt's formaldehyde unicorn, aka as a horse in a pool of chemicals with a horn drilled into his head in a box)?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,098
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10/7/2015 9:05:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 9:02:29 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:58:43 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:52:32 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:41:27 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:39:11 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:35:59 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:21:36 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:15:23 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Art is what you make it.

That's really vague. Maybe we can make progress through excluding things, and hopefully narrow the range of possible things that could be art. Is there anything that you think is NOT art?

It's supposed to be vague, but that's the nature of it. Art isn't some restricted formula - it's based solely on how someone sees something.

I have a real problem with this...a real problem with this. By this understanding, EVERYTHING could be "art." When everything is art, "art" loses it's meaning as a term or concept. We derive meaning through exclusion; the word "milk" has meaning because I exclude lots of stuff from it. I know what milk is by knowing what it is not. But if art is everything, then it is simultaneously nothing, because everything I touch or see or feel is art, and lowers the value placed on the term significantly.

Anything could be used artistically, but not everything is art. You put value on it, not someone else.

Okay. So what is "art?"

What it is to me is not necessarily what it is to anyone else. It's more fluid than rigid.

Then we get into the exact problem I described. If "Art" is totally subjective, without any limitations at all, then everything is art, because there will be someone out there who conceives of it that way. Are there ANY restrictions on what is or is not art?

For instance, is the man (not the picture, but the person) in my picture "art?" Is a willow tree art? Is this art [http://static.guim.co.uk...] (it is Hirt's formaldehyde unicorn, aka as a horse in a pool of chemicals with a horn drilled into his head in a box)?

I don't think that makes "everything" art. It's like saying subjective morality makes everything moral. That's feasible in individuals, but you'd be a fool to define subjective morality that way due to its nature.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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10/7/2015 9:07:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 9:05:44 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:02:29 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:58:43 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:52:32 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:41:27 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:39:11 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:35:59 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:21:36 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:15:23 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Art is what you make it.

That's really vague. Maybe we can make progress through excluding things, and hopefully narrow the range of possible things that could be art. Is there anything that you think is NOT art?

It's supposed to be vague, but that's the nature of it. Art isn't some restricted formula - it's based solely on how someone sees something.

I have a real problem with this...a real problem with this. By this understanding, EVERYTHING could be "art." When everything is art, "art" loses it's meaning as a term or concept. We derive meaning through exclusion; the word "milk" has meaning because I exclude lots of stuff from it. I know what milk is by knowing what it is not. But if art is everything, then it is simultaneously nothing, because everything I touch or see or feel is art, and lowers the value placed on the term significantly.

Anything could be used artistically, but not everything is art. You put value on it, not someone else.

Okay. So what is "art?"

What it is to me is not necessarily what it is to anyone else. It's more fluid than rigid.

Then we get into the exact problem I described. If "Art" is totally subjective, without any limitations at all, then everything is art, because there will be someone out there who conceives of it that way. Are there ANY restrictions on what is or is not art?

For instance, is the man (not the picture, but the person) in my picture "art?" Is a willow tree art? Is this art [http://static.guim.co.uk...] (it is Hirt's formaldehyde unicorn, aka as a horse in a pool of chemicals with a horn drilled into his head in a box)?

I don't think that makes "everything" art. It's like saying subjective morality makes everything moral. That's feasible in individuals, but you'd be a fool to define subjective morality that way due to its nature.

I do think subjective morality makes everything moral from a certain point of view. Nothing is clearly immoral.

What about the specific examples I gave? What are your thoughts?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
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1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,098
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10/7/2015 9:13:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 9:07:20 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:05:44 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:02:29 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:58:43 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:52:32 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:41:27 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:39:11 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:35:59 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:21:36 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:15:23 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Art is what you make it.

That's really vague. Maybe we can make progress through excluding things, and hopefully narrow the range of possible things that could be art. Is there anything that you think is NOT art?

It's supposed to be vague, but that's the nature of it. Art isn't some restricted formula - it's based solely on how someone sees something.

I have a real problem with this...a real problem with this. By this understanding, EVERYTHING could be "art." When everything is art, "art" loses it's meaning as a term or concept. We derive meaning through exclusion; the word "milk" has meaning because I exclude lots of stuff from it. I know what milk is by knowing what it is not. But if art is everything, then it is simultaneously nothing, because everything I touch or see or feel is art, and lowers the value placed on the term significantly.

Anything could be used artistically, but not everything is art. You put value on it, not someone else.

Okay. So what is "art?"

What it is to me is not necessarily what it is to anyone else. It's more fluid than rigid.

Then we get into the exact problem I described. If "Art" is totally subjective, without any limitations at all, then everything is art, because there will be someone out there who conceives of it that way. Are there ANY restrictions on what is or is not art?

For instance, is the man (not the picture, but the person) in my picture "art?" Is a willow tree art? Is this art [http://static.guim.co.uk...] (it is Hirt's formaldehyde unicorn, aka as a horse in a pool of chemicals with a horn drilled into his head in a box)?

I don't think that makes "everything" art. It's like saying subjective morality makes everything moral. That's feasible in individuals, but you'd be a fool to define subjective morality that way due to its nature.

I do think subjective morality makes everything moral from a certain point of view. Nothing is clearly immoral.

Eh...subjective is according to a person's own decision - you'd have too much contradiction to see everything as moral. There's no point of view that sees it that way. Nothing is clearly immoral, but that doesn't make it inherently moral. The same will then go far art - nothing is clearly not art, but that doesn't make everything art.

What about the specific examples I gave? What are your thoughts?

It doesn't quite matter what I think.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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10/7/2015 9:27:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 9:13:10 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:07:20 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:05:44 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:02:29 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:58:43 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
What it is to me is not necessarily what it is to anyone else. It's more fluid than rigid.

Then we get into the exact problem I described. If "Art" is totally subjective, without any limitations at all, then everything is art, because there will be someone out there who conceives of it that way. Are there ANY restrictions on what is or is not art?

For instance, is the man (not the picture, but the person) in my picture "art?" Is a willow tree art? Is this art [http://static.guim.co.uk...] (it is Hirt's formaldehyde unicorn, aka as a horse in a pool of chemicals with a horn drilled into his head in a box)?

I don't think that makes "everything" art. It's like saying subjective morality makes everything moral. That's feasible in individuals, but you'd be a fool to define subjective morality that way due to its nature.

I do think subjective morality makes everything moral from a certain point of view. Nothing is clearly immoral.

Eh...subjective is according to a person's own decision - you'd have too much contradiction to see everything as moral.

I didn't say that subjective morality makes everything moral to every person. I just said that subjective morality makes everything moral, because there will be 1 person out there (or more) who is okay with it. It makes rendering non-arbitrary moral judgements absolutely impossible and thus makes morality meaningless.

There's no point of view that sees it that way. Nothing is clearly immoral, but that doesn't make it inherently moral. The same will then go far art - nothing is clearly not art, but that doesn't make everything art.

It does, because since someone out there will see it as art, it is art to them, and thus it is art. That's the problem with your subjectivist viewpoint: nothing can be excluded from the realm of art, since all things are art to someone. Same with morality: nothing can be considered immoral because all things are moral to someone.

What about the specific examples I gave? What are your thoughts?

It doesn't quite matter what I think.

I am still curious.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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ESocialBookworm
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10/7/2015 9:37:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 8:10:57 PM, bsh1 wrote:
This seems like a fairly basic question, but I've heard so many responses to it. Many people assert that modern art (like Damien Hirst's mass-produces dot paintings) are not real art. Is this just a no-true scotsman fallacy, though? Similarly, I have heard that a beautiful human body or a picturesque setting in nature is art. But does something require artistic intent behind it to be really art?

So, what is art, and what is art not? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

A system or way of expressing oneself, using any media.
Solonkr~
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which is what everyone else should also care about.

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bsh1
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10/7/2015 9:40:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 9:37:53 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:10:57 PM, bsh1 wrote:
This seems like a fairly basic question, but I've heard so many responses to it. Many people assert that modern art (like Damien Hirst's mass-produces dot paintings) are not real art. Is this just a no-true scotsman fallacy, though? Similarly, I have heard that a beautiful human body or a picturesque setting in nature is art. But does something require artistic intent behind it to be really art?

So, what is art, and what is art not? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

A system or way of expressing oneself, using any media.

Is hate speech art?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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ButterCatX
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10/7/2015 9:46:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Art could be anything as long as it has emotional feelings attributed with it in the beholder's mind. i.e. I find Sphero's bb-8 to be a work of art because all of them have unique personalities which is beautiful to a programmer, while others may not think it is as beautiful. You may find your profile picture to be art while another person thinks that it is not because the guy has tatoos or something.
I bet fanfics are already being posted on random blogs about us.-Vaarka

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All hail the great and mighty Butters, who died for our inactive cause.-Vaarka

fuckith offith, lol.-Ore(talking to me)

And guess what happened to FT? He got raped to death.-Xlav

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Yonko
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10/7/2015 9:48:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 8:21:36 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:15:23 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Art is what you make it.

That's really vague. Maybe we can make progress through excluding things, and hopefully narrow the range of possible things that could be art. Is there anything that you think is NOT art?

A few things that come to mind
- Signing a urinal
- Painting an entire canvas one color
- Drawing a single line
bsh1
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10/7/2015 9:50:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 9:48:29 PM, Yonko wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:21:36 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:15:23 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Art is what you make it.

That's really vague. Maybe we can make progress through excluding things, and hopefully narrow the range of possible things that could be art. Is there anything that you think is NOT art?

A few things that come to mind
- Signing a urinal
- Painting an entire canvas one color
- Drawing a single line

Lol. Why these things?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
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bsh1
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10/7/2015 9:51:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 9:46:26 PM, ButterCatX wrote:
Art could be anything as long as it has emotional feelings attributed with it in the beholder's mind. i.e. I find Sphero's bb-8 to be a work of art because all of them have unique personalities which is beautiful to a programmer, while others may not think it is as beautiful. You may find your profile picture to be art while another person thinks that it is not because the guy has tatoos or something.

See my conversation with Harder.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Yonko
Posts: 227
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10/7/2015 9:51:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 9:50:25 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:48:29 PM, Yonko wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:21:36 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:15:23 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Art is what you make it.

That's really vague. Maybe we can make progress through excluding things, and hopefully narrow the range of possible things that could be art. Is there anything that you think is NOT art?

A few things that come to mind
- Signing a urinal
- Painting an entire canvas one color
- Drawing a single line

Lol. Why these things?

Because people have actually passed off these things as "art" and had them sold for millions
ButterCatX
Posts: 2,228
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10/7/2015 9:53:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 9:51:10 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:46:26 PM, ButterCatX wrote:
Art could be anything as long as it has emotional feelings attributed with it in the beholder's mind. i.e. I find Sphero's bb-8 to be a work of art because all of them have unique personalities which is beautiful to a programmer, while others may not think it is as beautiful. You may find your profile picture to be art while another person thinks that it is not because the guy has tatoos or something.

See my conversation with Harder.

Art is what seperates us from machines because we are able to percieve it as a feeling or a mental state of mind
I bet fanfics are already being posted on random blogs about us.-Vaarka

Butters preformed his duty to the town and died with honor, he helped us kill scum, so we know have to go and make sure his death wasn't in vain and win this game for him.-lannan13

All hail the great and mighty Butters, who died for our inactive cause.-Vaarka

fuckith offith, lol.-Ore(talking to me)

And guess what happened to FT? He got raped to death.-Xlav

You are so obviously town I love you man.-VOT
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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10/7/2015 9:56:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 9:51:59 PM, Yonko wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:50:25 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:48:29 PM, Yonko wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:21:36 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:15:23 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Art is what you make it.

That's really vague. Maybe we can make progress through excluding things, and hopefully narrow the range of possible things that could be art. Is there anything that you think is NOT art?

A few things that come to mind
- Signing a urinal
- Painting an entire canvas one color
- Drawing a single line

Lol. Why these things?

Because people have actually passed off these things as "art" and had them sold for millions

But what qualities about them make them "not art?"
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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10/7/2015 9:57:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 9:53:13 PM, ButterCatX wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:51:10 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:46:26 PM, ButterCatX wrote:
Art could be anything as long as it has emotional feelings attributed with it in the beholder's mind. i.e. I find Sphero's bb-8 to be a work of art because all of them have unique personalities which is beautiful to a programmer, while others may not think it is as beautiful. You may find your profile picture to be art while another person thinks that it is not because the guy has tatoos or something.

See my conversation with Harder.

Art is what seperates us from machines because we are able to percieve it as a feeling or a mental state of mind

That explains what art does, not what art is. And it doesn't address the fact that if art is everything, it renders the meaning of "Art" fairly pointless. Why have a word for art, instead of just saying, "that thing really stirred my emotions, bro!"
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
ButterCatX
Posts: 2,228
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10/7/2015 10:00:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 9:57:46 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:53:13 PM, ButterCatX wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:51:10 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:46:26 PM, ButterCatX wrote:
Art could be anything as long as it has emotional feelings attributed with it in the beholder's mind. i.e. I find Sphero's bb-8 to be a work of art because all of them have unique personalities which is beautiful to a programmer, while others may not think it is as beautiful. You may find your profile picture to be art while another person thinks that it is not because the guy has tatoos or something.

See my conversation with Harder.

Art is what seperates us from machines because we are able to percieve it as a feeling or a mental state of mind

That explains what art does, not what art is. And it doesn't address the fact that if art is everything, it renders the meaning of "Art" fairly pointless. Why have a word for art, instead of just saying, "that thing really stirred my emotions, bro!"

the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.
2.
the class of objects subject to aesthetic criteria; works of art collectively, as paintings, sculptures, or drawings: a museum of art;
an art collection.
See also fine art, commercial art.
3.
a field, genre, or category of art:
Dance is an art.
4.
the fine arts collectively, often excluding architecture:
art and architecture.
5.
any field using the skills or techniques of art: advertising art;
industrial art.
6.
a branch of learning or university study, especially one of the fine arts or the humanities, as music, philosophy, or literature: She was adept at the arts of music and painting;
I've always felt an affinity towards the visual arts, though I studied art of philosophy.
definition according to dictionary.com
I bet fanfics are already being posted on random blogs about us.-Vaarka

Butters preformed his duty to the town and died with honor, he helped us kill scum, so we know have to go and make sure his death wasn't in vain and win this game for him.-lannan13

All hail the great and mighty Butters, who died for our inactive cause.-Vaarka

fuckith offith, lol.-Ore(talking to me)

And guess what happened to FT? He got raped to death.-Xlav

You are so obviously town I love you man.-VOT
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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10/7/2015 10:01:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 10:00:24 PM, ButterCatX wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:57:46 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:53:13 PM, ButterCatX wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:51:10 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:46:26 PM, ButterCatX wrote:
Art could be anything as long as it has emotional feelings attributed with it in the beholder's mind. i.e. I find Sphero's bb-8 to be a work of art because all of them have unique personalities which is beautiful to a programmer, while others may not think it is as beautiful. You may find your profile picture to be art while another person thinks that it is not because the guy has tatoos or something.

See my conversation with Harder.

Art is what seperates us from machines because we are able to percieve it as a feeling or a mental state of mind

That explains what art does, not what art is. And it doesn't address the fact that if art is everything, it renders the meaning of "Art" fairly pointless. Why have a word for art, instead of just saying, "that thing really stirred my emotions, bro!"

I'd prefer something in your own words, rather than a list of copy-pasted definitions.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

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ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,354
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10/7/2015 10:07:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 9:40:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:37:53 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:10:57 PM, bsh1 wrote:
This seems like a fairly basic question, but I've heard so many responses to it. Many people assert that modern art (like Damien Hirst's mass-produces dot paintings) are not real art. Is this just a no-true scotsman fallacy, though? Similarly, I have heard that a beautiful human body or a picturesque setting in nature is art. But does something require artistic intent behind it to be really art?

So, what is art, and what is art not? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

A system or way of expressing oneself, using any media.

Is hate speech art?

Subjectively, of course.
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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10/7/2015 10:09:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 10:07:19 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:40:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:37:53 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:10:57 PM, bsh1 wrote:
This seems like a fairly basic question, but I've heard so many responses to it. Many people assert that modern art (like Damien Hirst's mass-produces dot paintings) are not real art. Is this just a no-true scotsman fallacy, though? Similarly, I have heard that a beautiful human body or a picturesque setting in nature is art. But does something require artistic intent behind it to be really art?

So, what is art, and what is art not? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

A system or way of expressing oneself, using any media.

Is hate speech art?

Subjectively, of course.

Eh...I can see a case for it being art, but I want to say that a Swastika is not art. What I would say is that something must have "Artistic Intent" for it to be art. I don't think a Swastika qualifies under this notion of art.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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10/7/2015 10:10:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
This thread could actually get a little torch next to it :) A not-dead thread in a dead forum! GLORY TO THE AXOLOTL AND HIS PROPHET, CHICKADEE! LET THE REVIVAL COMMENCE!
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

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ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,354
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10/7/2015 10:12:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 10:09:46 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 10:07:19 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:40:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:37:53 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:10:57 PM, bsh1 wrote:
This seems like a fairly basic question, but I've heard so many responses to it. Many people assert that modern art (like Damien Hirst's mass-produces dot paintings) are not real art. Is this just a no-true scotsman fallacy, though? Similarly, I have heard that a beautiful human body or a picturesque setting in nature is art. But does something require artistic intent behind it to be really art?

So, what is art, and what is art not? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

A system or way of expressing oneself, using any media.

Is hate speech art?

Subjectively, of course.

Eh...I can see a case for it being art, but I want to say that a Swastika is not art. What I would say is that something must have "Artistic Intent" for it to be art. I don't think a Swastika qualifies under this notion of art.

It depends. I mean, some people do different artisti versions of it...
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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10/7/2015 10:13:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 10:12:40 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 10/7/2015 10:09:46 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 10:07:19 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:40:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 9:37:53 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
A system or way of expressing oneself, using any media.

Is hate speech art?

Subjectively, of course.

Eh...I can see a case for it being art, but I want to say that a Swastika is not art. What I would say is that something must have "Artistic Intent" for it to be art. I don't think a Swastika qualifies under this notion of art.

It depends. I mean, some people do different artisti versions of it...

I mean that one the Nazi's used...not later uses of it.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...