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What makes art "art"?

Vaarka
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1/31/2016 11:25:46 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
So, what is it that makes a certain work "art"? Is there a certain set of requirements? Does the work have to have 'this' or 'that' or be a certain 'this'? Or is there a different meaning for what makes a work "art"?

Please share your thoughts here for what makes art "art". Maybe a nice little discussion will arise from this. I want to hear what you guys think makes a work "art", and see what the general audience believes.

Now, contrary to popular belief, while you can answer with this, I'm not exactly looking for the typical art forum response of "it all depends on the viewers interpretation of the artwork". I want to know what you guys actually think makes a work "art" (and yes, if all you can think of is the typical art forum response, then feel free to ask it. I just don't want one or two people to answer that and then it's over).
You're probably thinking right now "haha I'm a genius". Well you're not -Valkrin

inferno: "I don't know, are you attracted to women?"
ButterCatX: "No, Vaarka is mine!"

All hail scum Vaarka, wielder of the bastard sword, smiter of nations, destroyer of spiders -VOT

"Vaarka, I've been thinking about this for a long time now," (pulls out small box made of macaroni) "W-will you be my noodle buddy?" -Kirigaya
bsh1
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1/31/2016 11:28:52 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Lol. I had a lengthy discussion about this some time ago [http://www.debate.org...]. But, I think that what emerged--for me at least--was this:

1. Art requires artistic intention
2. Art has to affect the viewer in some way--either emotionally or intellectually
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Vaarka
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1/31/2016 11:30:14 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/31/2016 11:28:52 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Lol. I had a lengthy discussion about this some time ago [http://www.debate.org...]. But, I think that what emerged--for me at least--was this:

1. Art requires artistic intention
2. Art has to affect the viewer in some way--either emotionally or intellectually

I'm well aware, but this is a different question.

You asked "what is art?". I asked "what makes art "art"?" if that makes any difference/sense.
You're probably thinking right now "haha I'm a genius". Well you're not -Valkrin

inferno: "I don't know, are you attracted to women?"
ButterCatX: "No, Vaarka is mine!"

All hail scum Vaarka, wielder of the bastard sword, smiter of nations, destroyer of spiders -VOT

"Vaarka, I've been thinking about this for a long time now," (pulls out small box made of macaroni) "W-will you be my noodle buddy?" -Kirigaya
bsh1
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1/31/2016 11:31:43 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/31/2016 11:30:14 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:28:52 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Lol. I had a lengthy discussion about this some time ago [http://www.debate.org...]. But, I think that what emerged--for me at least--was this:

1. Art requires artistic intention
2. Art has to affect the viewer in some way--either emotionally or intellectually

I'm well aware, but this is a different question.

You asked "what is art?". I asked "what makes art "art"?" if that makes any difference/sense.

I don't get the difference? Surely, what makes art "art" is also the same as what art is. If X makes art, "art," then X is what art is.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Vaarka
Posts: 7,533
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1/31/2016 11:33:03 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/31/2016 11:31:43 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:30:14 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:28:52 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Lol. I had a lengthy discussion about this some time ago [http://www.debate.org...]. But, I think that what emerged--for me at least--was this:

1. Art requires artistic intention
2. Art has to affect the viewer in some way--either emotionally or intellectually

I'm well aware, but this is a different question.

You asked "what is art?". I asked "what makes art "art"?" if that makes any difference/sense.

I don't get the difference? Surely, what makes art "art" is also the same as what art is. If X makes art, "art," then X is what art is.

I think a better question is "why is it art?"

What about this work makes it art? Why is it art?

That kind of thing. Hopefully you'll see some kind of difference, because in my mind, there's a bit of a difference between the questions.
You're probably thinking right now "haha I'm a genius". Well you're not -Valkrin

inferno: "I don't know, are you attracted to women?"
ButterCatX: "No, Vaarka is mine!"

All hail scum Vaarka, wielder of the bastard sword, smiter of nations, destroyer of spiders -VOT

"Vaarka, I've been thinking about this for a long time now," (pulls out small box made of macaroni) "W-will you be my noodle buddy?" -Kirigaya
bsh1
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1/31/2016 11:33:56 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/31/2016 11:33:03 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:31:43 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:30:14 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:28:52 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Lol. I had a lengthy discussion about this some time ago [http://www.debate.org...]. But, I think that what emerged--for me at least--was this:

1. Art requires artistic intention
2. Art has to affect the viewer in some way--either emotionally or intellectually

I'm well aware, but this is a different question.

You asked "what is art?". I asked "what makes art "art"?" if that makes any difference/sense.

I don't get the difference? Surely, what makes art "art" is also the same as what art is. If X makes art, "art," then X is what art is.

I think a better question is "why is it art?"

What about this work makes it art? Why is it art?

That kind of thing. Hopefully you'll see some kind of difference, because in my mind, there's a bit of a difference between the questions.

Eh...I mean, I have a feeling that you may be getting at something there, but I am not sure there is really a difference. Lemme cogitate on it.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Vaarka
Posts: 7,533
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1/31/2016 11:36:29 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/31/2016 11:33:56 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:33:03 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:31:43 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:30:14 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:28:52 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Lol. I had a lengthy discussion about this some time ago [http://www.debate.org...]. But, I think that what emerged--for me at least--was this:

1. Art requires artistic intention
2. Art has to affect the viewer in some way--either emotionally or intellectually

I'm well aware, but this is a different question.

You asked "what is art?". I asked "what makes art "art"?" if that makes any difference/sense.

I don't get the difference? Surely, what makes art "art" is also the same as what art is. If X makes art, "art," then X is what art is.

I think a better question is "why is it art?"

What about this work makes it art? Why is it art?

That kind of thing. Hopefully you'll see some kind of difference, because in my mind, there's a bit of a difference between the questions.

Eh...I mean, I have a feeling that you may be getting at something there, but I am not sure there is really a difference. Lemme cogitate on it.

I guess what I can mean is this:
Why is this considered art,: http://lisacall.com...

But this is not considered art?: http://www.georgialifetraces.com...
You're probably thinking right now "haha I'm a genius". Well you're not -Valkrin

inferno: "I don't know, are you attracted to women?"
ButterCatX: "No, Vaarka is mine!"

All hail scum Vaarka, wielder of the bastard sword, smiter of nations, destroyer of spiders -VOT

"Vaarka, I've been thinking about this for a long time now," (pulls out small box made of macaroni) "W-will you be my noodle buddy?" -Kirigaya
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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1/31/2016 11:39:20 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/31/2016 11:36:29 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:33:56 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:33:03 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:31:43 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:30:14 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:28:52 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Lol. I had a lengthy discussion about this some time ago [http://www.debate.org...]. But, I think that what emerged--for me at least--was this:

1. Art requires artistic intention
2. Art has to affect the viewer in some way--either emotionally or intellectually

I'm well aware, but this is a different question.

You asked "what is art?". I asked "what makes art "art"?" if that makes any difference/sense.

I don't get the difference? Surely, what makes art "art" is also the same as what art is. If X makes art, "art," then X is what art is.

I think a better question is "why is it art?"

What about this work makes it art? Why is it art?

That kind of thing. Hopefully you'll see some kind of difference, because in my mind, there's a bit of a difference between the questions.

Eh...I mean, I have a feeling that you may be getting at something there, but I am not sure there is really a difference. Lemme cogitate on it.

I guess what I can mean is this:
Why is this considered art,: http://lisacall.com...

But this is not considered art?: http://www.georgialifetraces.com...

Because one had artistic intent, the other didn't.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Vaarka
Posts: 7,533
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1/31/2016 11:40:41 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/31/2016 11:39:20 PM, bsh1 wrote:

I guess what I can mean is this:
Why is this considered art,: http://lisacall.com...

But this is not considered art?: http://www.georgialifetraces.com...

Because one had artistic intent, the other didn't.

So if I were to hang a urinal on a gallery wall, sign it, and say I put it there with artistic intent, it would be art?
You're probably thinking right now "haha I'm a genius". Well you're not -Valkrin

inferno: "I don't know, are you attracted to women?"
ButterCatX: "No, Vaarka is mine!"

All hail scum Vaarka, wielder of the bastard sword, smiter of nations, destroyer of spiders -VOT

"Vaarka, I've been thinking about this for a long time now," (pulls out small box made of macaroni) "W-will you be my noodle buddy?" -Kirigaya
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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1/31/2016 11:41:39 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/31/2016 11:40:41 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:39:20 PM, bsh1 wrote:

I guess what I can mean is this:
Why is this considered art,: http://lisacall.com...

But this is not considered art?: http://www.georgialifetraces.com...

Because one had artistic intent, the other didn't.

So if I were to hang a urinal on a gallery wall, sign it, and say I put it there with artistic intent, it would be art?

I mean, if the intent was genuine, yes.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Vaarka
Posts: 7,533
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1/31/2016 11:43:07 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/31/2016 11:41:39 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:40:41 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:39:20 PM, bsh1 wrote:

I guess what I can mean is this:
Why is this considered art,: http://lisacall.com...

But this is not considered art?: http://www.georgialifetraces.com...

Because one had artistic intent, the other didn't.

So if I were to hang a urinal on a gallery wall, sign it, and say I put it there with artistic intent, it would be art?

I mean, if the intent was genuine, yes.

How else would it be art, other than that? If you saw the urinal, would you at first consider it art?
You're probably thinking right now "haha I'm a genius". Well you're not -Valkrin

inferno: "I don't know, are you attracted to women?"
ButterCatX: "No, Vaarka is mine!"

All hail scum Vaarka, wielder of the bastard sword, smiter of nations, destroyer of spiders -VOT

"Vaarka, I've been thinking about this for a long time now," (pulls out small box made of macaroni) "W-will you be my noodle buddy?" -Kirigaya
Vaarka
Posts: 7,533
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1/31/2016 11:47:22 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/31/2016 11:43:07 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:41:39 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:40:41 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:39:20 PM, bsh1 wrote:

I guess what I can mean is this:
Why is this considered art,: http://lisacall.com...

But this is not considered art?: http://www.georgialifetraces.com...

Because one had artistic intent, the other didn't.

So if I were to hang a urinal on a gallery wall, sign it, and say I put it there with artistic intent, it would be art?

I mean, if the intent was genuine, yes.

How else would it be art, other than that? If you saw the urinal, would you at first consider it art?

Actually, better/different question (though answer the above question as well ;3). What if I were to take that urinal out of the gallery and put it in the bathroom. Would it still be art?
You're probably thinking right now "haha I'm a genius". Well you're not -Valkrin

inferno: "I don't know, are you attracted to women?"
ButterCatX: "No, Vaarka is mine!"

All hail scum Vaarka, wielder of the bastard sword, smiter of nations, destroyer of spiders -VOT

"Vaarka, I've been thinking about this for a long time now," (pulls out small box made of macaroni) "W-will you be my noodle buddy?" -Kirigaya
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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1/31/2016 11:48:55 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/31/2016 11:41:39 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:40:41 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:39:20 PM, bsh1 wrote:

I guess what I can mean is this:
Why is this considered art,: http://lisacall.com...

But this is not considered art?: http://www.georgialifetraces.com...

Because one had artistic intent, the other didn't.

So if I were to hang a urinal on a gallery wall, sign it, and say I put it there with artistic intent, it would be art?

I mean, if the intent was genuine, yes.

Thats such a lame definition. Something is art if you want it to be lol
Vaarka
Posts: 7,533
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1/31/2016 11:51:02 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/31/2016 11:48:55 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:41:39 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:40:41 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:39:20 PM, bsh1 wrote:

I guess what I can mean is this:
Why is this considered art,: http://lisacall.com...

But this is not considered art?: http://www.georgialifetraces.com...

Because one had artistic intent, the other didn't.

So if I were to hang a urinal on a gallery wall, sign it, and say I put it there with artistic intent, it would be art?

I mean, if the intent was genuine, yes.

Thats such a lame definition. Something is art if you want it to be lol
*cough*

So if you drew a spoon, just a spoon. You made a small spoon that only covered a corner of the page, and took less than a minute to make. You may consider it art, but other people don't. So, is it art?
You're probably thinking right now "haha I'm a genius". Well you're not -Valkrin

inferno: "I don't know, are you attracted to women?"
ButterCatX: "No, Vaarka is mine!"

All hail scum Vaarka, wielder of the bastard sword, smiter of nations, destroyer of spiders -VOT

"Vaarka, I've been thinking about this for a long time now," (pulls out small box made of macaroni) "W-will you be my noodle buddy?" -Kirigaya
Peepette
Posts: 1,237
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1/31/2016 11:53:12 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
I feel art is first, a way of mentally processing something that an individual finds interesting or inspiring. Next, these thoughts move into a formulation mode on how the individual wishes to interpret and represent those thoughts to the outside world. While in the process of materializing, the thinking through of its depiction changes, morphs. At times the end product is what was intended, other times it is something totally different. But, the end result is evocative to the artist and hopefully the viewer. The process of creating art is more cerebral than representative.
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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1/31/2016 11:54:00 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/31/2016 11:51:02 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:48:55 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:41:39 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:40:41 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:39:20 PM, bsh1 wrote:

I guess what I can mean is this:
Why is this considered art,: http://lisacall.com...

But this is not considered art?: http://www.georgialifetraces.com...

Because one had artistic intent, the other didn't.

So if I were to hang a urinal on a gallery wall, sign it, and say I put it there with artistic intent, it would be art?

I mean, if the intent was genuine, yes.

Thats such a lame definition. Something is art if you want it to be lol
*cough*

So if you drew a spoon, just a spoon. You made a small spoon that only covered a corner of the page, and took less than a minute to make. You may consider it art, but other people don't. So, is it art?

To you it is. But for the other people it isn't. The meaning of art is subjective, thats why some people think one kind of art is very moving, while others may think its boring and vice versa. Its all subjective
Vaarka
Posts: 7,533
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1/31/2016 11:56:12 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/31/2016 11:54:00 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:51:02 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:48:55 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:41:39 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:40:41 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:39:20 PM, bsh1 wrote:

I guess what I can mean is this:
Why is this considered art,: http://lisacall.com...

But this is not considered art?: http://www.georgialifetraces.com...

Because one had artistic intent, the other didn't.

So if I were to hang a urinal on a gallery wall, sign it, and say I put it there with artistic intent, it would be art?

I mean, if the intent was genuine, yes.

Thats such a lame definition. Something is art if you want it to be lol
*cough*

So if you drew a spoon, just a spoon. You made a small spoon that only covered a corner of the page, and took less than a minute to make. You may consider it art, but other people don't. So, is it art?

To you it is. But for the other people it isn't. The meaning of art is subjective, thats why some people think one kind of art is very moving, while others may think its boring and vice versa. Its all subjective

Yes, but is it actually art? Let's switch that around. You're walking through an art gallery, and you find that picture of a spoon (but this time, you didn't draw it). You think "I could do that" and joke about how people will call anything art nowadays, and people around you chuckle and agree. Is it still art?
You're probably thinking right now "haha I'm a genius". Well you're not -Valkrin

inferno: "I don't know, are you attracted to women?"
ButterCatX: "No, Vaarka is mine!"

All hail scum Vaarka, wielder of the bastard sword, smiter of nations, destroyer of spiders -VOT

"Vaarka, I've been thinking about this for a long time now," (pulls out small box made of macaroni) "W-will you be my noodle buddy?" -Kirigaya
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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1/31/2016 11:57:48 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/31/2016 11:56:12 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:54:00 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:51:02 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:48:55 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:41:39 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:40:41 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:39:20 PM, bsh1 wrote:

I guess what I can mean is this:
Why is this considered art,: http://lisacall.com...

But this is not considered art?: http://www.georgialifetraces.com...

Because one had artistic intent, the other didn't.

So if I were to hang a urinal on a gallery wall, sign it, and say I put it there with artistic intent, it would be art?

I mean, if the intent was genuine, yes.

Thats such a lame definition. Something is art if you want it to be lol
*cough*

So if you drew a spoon, just a spoon. You made a small spoon that only covered a corner of the page, and took less than a minute to make. You may consider it art, but other people don't. So, is it art?

To you it is. But for the other people it isn't. The meaning of art is subjective, thats why some people think one kind of art is very moving, while others may think its boring and vice versa. Its all subjective

Yes, but is it actually art? Let's switch that around. You're walking through an art gallery, and you find that picture of a spoon (but this time, you didn't draw it). You think "I could do that" and joke about how people will call anything art nowadays, and people around you chuckle and agree. Is it still art?

To the person who thinks its art it is, but not to you and the clowns around you.
Vaarka
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1/31/2016 11:59:03 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/31/2016 11:57:48 PM, Hayd wrote:

So if you drew a spoon, just a spoon. You made a small spoon that only covered a corner of the page, and took less than a minute to make. You may consider it art, but other people don't. So, is it art?

To you it is. But for the other people it isn't. The meaning of art is subjective, thats why some people think one kind of art is very moving, while others may think its boring and vice versa. Its all subjective

Yes, but is it actually art? Let's switch that around. You're walking through an art gallery, and you find that picture of a spoon (but this time, you didn't draw it). You think "I could do that" and joke about how people will call anything art nowadays, and people around you chuckle and agree. Is it still art?

To the person who thinks its art it is, but not to you and the clowns around you.

But what about it officially makes it art? Sure, you can consider it to be art or you can consider it to not be art; but what makes the drawing of that spoon "art"?
You're probably thinking right now "haha I'm a genius". Well you're not -Valkrin

inferno: "I don't know, are you attracted to women?"
ButterCatX: "No, Vaarka is mine!"

All hail scum Vaarka, wielder of the bastard sword, smiter of nations, destroyer of spiders -VOT

"Vaarka, I've been thinking about this for a long time now," (pulls out small box made of macaroni) "W-will you be my noodle buddy?" -Kirigaya
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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2/1/2016 12:00:19 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/31/2016 11:59:03 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:57:48 PM, Hayd wrote:

So if you drew a spoon, just a spoon. You made a small spoon that only covered a corner of the page, and took less than a minute to make. You may consider it art, but other people don't. So, is it art?

To you it is. But for the other people it isn't. The meaning of art is subjective, thats why some people think one kind of art is very moving, while others may think its boring and vice versa. Its all subjective

Yes, but is it actually art? Let's switch that around. You're walking through an art gallery, and you find that picture of a spoon (but this time, you didn't draw it). You think "I could do that" and joke about how people will call anything art nowadays, and people around you chuckle and agree. Is it still art?

To the person who thinks its art it is, but not to you and the clowns around you.

But what about it officially makes it art? Sure, you can consider it to be art or you can consider it to not be art; but what makes the drawing of that spoon "art"?

I think what we've figured out here is that there is no objective definition...its subject. Thus there is no answer to the question you seek
Vaarka
Posts: 7,533
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2/1/2016 12:02:56 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 12:00:19 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:59:03 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:57:48 PM, Hayd wrote:

So if you drew a spoon, just a spoon. You made a small spoon that only covered a corner of the page, and took less than a minute to make. You may consider it art, but other people don't. So, is it art?

To you it is. But for the other people it isn't. The meaning of art is subjective, thats why some people think one kind of art is very moving, while others may think its boring and vice versa. Its all subjective

Yes, but is it actually art? Let's switch that around. You're walking through an art gallery, and you find that picture of a spoon (but this time, you didn't draw it). You think "I could do that" and joke about how people will call anything art nowadays, and people around you chuckle and agree. Is it still art?

To the person who thinks its art it is, but not to you and the clowns around you.

But what about it officially makes it art? Sure, you can consider it to be art or you can consider it to not be art; but what makes the drawing of that spoon "art"?

I think what we've figured out here is that there is no objective definition...its subject. Thus there is no answer to the question you seek

I'm sure there could be. Yes, your answer is completely true, but there's more to it than just "because they consider it art" or "It has some kind of value to them". What about that drawing, that spoon, what about the drawing, the paper it was drawn on, the tool it was drawn with, the person who drew it, the way they drew it. What about that piece of paper with a poorly drawn spoon on it makes it art. What elements in this drawing make it art?
You're probably thinking right now "haha I'm a genius". Well you're not -Valkrin

inferno: "I don't know, are you attracted to women?"
ButterCatX: "No, Vaarka is mine!"

All hail scum Vaarka, wielder of the bastard sword, smiter of nations, destroyer of spiders -VOT

"Vaarka, I've been thinking about this for a long time now," (pulls out small box made of macaroni) "W-will you be my noodle buddy?" -Kirigaya
Peepette
Posts: 1,237
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2/1/2016 12:05:56 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/31/2016 11:57:48 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:56:12 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:54:00 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:51:02 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:48:55 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:41:39 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:40:41 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:39:20 PM, bsh1 wrote:

I guess what I can mean is this:
Why is this considered art,: http://lisacall.com...

But this is not considered art?: http://www.georgialifetraces.com...

Because one had artistic intent, the other didn't.

So if I were to hang a urinal on a gallery wall, sign it, and say I put it there with artistic intent, it would be art?

I mean, if the intent was genuine, yes.

Thats such a lame definition. Something is art if you want it to be lol
*cough*

So if you drew a spoon, just a spoon. You made a small spoon that only covered a corner of the page, and took less than a minute to make. You may consider it art, but other people don't. So, is it art?

To you it is. But for the other people it isn't. The meaning of art is subjective, thats why some people think one kind of art is very moving, while others may think its boring and vice versa. Its all subjective

Yes, but is it actually art? Let's switch that around. You're walking through an art gallery, and you find that picture of a spoon (but this time, you didn't draw it). You think "I could do that" and joke about how people will call anything art nowadays, and people around you chuckle and agree. Is it still art?

To the person who thinks its art it is, but not to you and the clowns around you.

I hope you don't mind if I interject on this conversation, but art can also be found. What I mean by that is, I walk down the street and see a twisted metal frame and admire how it reflects light and casts shadows, it is art in my eye. Another person walking past the same rubble may see only rubble; it is not art in that person's eye. Art is as subjective as opinions.
Hayd
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2/1/2016 12:08:48 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 12:02:56 AM, Vaarka wrote:
At 2/1/2016 12:00:19 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:59:03 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:57:48 PM, Hayd wrote:

So if you drew a spoon, just a spoon. You made a small spoon that only covered a corner of the page, and took less than a minute to make. You may consider it art, but other people don't. So, is it art?

To you it is. But for the other people it isn't. The meaning of art is subjective, thats why some people think one kind of art is very moving, while others may think its boring and vice versa. Its all subjective

Yes, but is it actually art? Let's switch that around. You're walking through an art gallery, and you find that picture of a spoon (but this time, you didn't draw it). You think "I could do that" and joke about how people will call anything art nowadays, and people around you chuckle and agree. Is it still art?

To the person who thinks its art it is, but not to you and the clowns around you.

But what about it officially makes it art? Sure, you can consider it to be art or you can consider it to not be art; but what makes the drawing of that spoon "art"?

I think what we've figured out here is that there is no objective definition...its subject. Thus there is no answer to the question you seek

I'm sure there could be. Yes, your answer is completely true, but there's more to it than just "because they consider it art" or "It has some kind of value to them". What about that drawing, that spoon, what about the drawing, the paper it was drawn on, the tool it was drawn with, the person who drew it, the way they drew it. What about that piece of paper with a poorly drawn spoon on it makes it art. What elements in this drawing make it art?

Oh, for the person? Well, again, theres no objective qualifications for that, it varies person to person.
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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2/1/2016 12:10:28 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 12:05:56 AM, Peepette wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:57:48 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:56:12 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:54:00 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:51:02 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:48:55 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:41:39 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:40:41 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:39:20 PM, bsh1 wrote:

I guess what I can mean is this:
Why is this considered art,: http://lisacall.com...

But this is not considered art?: http://www.georgialifetraces.com...

Because one had artistic intent, the other didn't.

So if I were to hang a urinal on a gallery wall, sign it, and say I put it there with artistic intent, it would be art?

I mean, if the intent was genuine, yes.

Thats such a lame definition. Something is art if you want it to be lol
*cough*

So if you drew a spoon, just a spoon. You made a small spoon that only covered a corner of the page, and took less than a minute to make. You may consider it art, but other people don't. So, is it art?

To you it is. But for the other people it isn't. The meaning of art is subjective, thats why some people think one kind of art is very moving, while others may think its boring and vice versa. Its all subjective

Yes, but is it actually art? Let's switch that around. You're walking through an art gallery, and you find that picture of a spoon (but this time, you didn't draw it). You think "I could do that" and joke about how people will call anything art nowadays, and people around you chuckle and agree. Is it still art?

To the person who thinks its art it is, but not to you and the clowns around you.

I hope you don't mind if I interject on this conversation, but art can also be found. What I mean by that is, I walk down the street and see a twisted metal frame and admire how it reflects light and casts shadows, it is art in my eye. Another person walking past the same rubble may see only rubble; it is not art in that person's eye. Art is as subjective as opinions.

Exactly. This is exactly what I am arguing.
Vaarka
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2/1/2016 12:11:22 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 12:08:48 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 2/1/2016 12:02:56 AM, Vaarka wrote:
At 2/1/2016 12:00:19 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:59:03 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:57:48 PM, Hayd wrote:

So if you drew a spoon, just a spoon. You made a small spoon that only covered a corner of the page, and took less than a minute to make. You may consider it art, but other people don't. So, is it art?

To you it is. But for the other people it isn't. The meaning of art is subjective, thats why some people think one kind of art is very moving, while others may think its boring and vice versa. Its all subjective

Yes, but is it actually art? Let's switch that around. You're walking through an art gallery, and you find that picture of a spoon (but this time, you didn't draw it). You think "I could do that" and joke about how people will call anything art nowadays, and people around you chuckle and agree. Is it still art?

To the person who thinks its art it is, but not to you and the clowns around you.

But what about it officially makes it art? Sure, you can consider it to be art or you can consider it to not be art; but what makes the drawing of that spoon "art"?

I think what we've figured out here is that there is no objective definition...its subject. Thus there is no answer to the question you seek

I'm sure there could be. Yes, your answer is completely true, but there's more to it than just "because they consider it art" or "It has some kind of value to them". What about that drawing, that spoon, what about the drawing, the paper it was drawn on, the tool it was drawn with, the person who drew it, the way they drew it. What about that piece of paper with a poorly drawn spoon on it makes it art. What elements in this drawing make it art?

Oh, for the person? Well, again, theres no objective qualifications for that, it varies person to person.

*stops...shakes head*
Okay, let's forget about to subjective stuff. Let's forget about the emotion and what people think. Let's forget about how some people consider it art and some don't. Drop it all in the sand below you.

Now, what makes that drawing of a spoon art?
You're probably thinking right now "haha I'm a genius". Well you're not -Valkrin

inferno: "I don't know, are you attracted to women?"
ButterCatX: "No, Vaarka is mine!"

All hail scum Vaarka, wielder of the bastard sword, smiter of nations, destroyer of spiders -VOT

"Vaarka, I've been thinking about this for a long time now," (pulls out small box made of macaroni) "W-will you be my noodle buddy?" -Kirigaya
Valkrin
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2/1/2016 12:30:50 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
To classify anything as "art", there needs to be three factors:
1. Intent
2. Acceptance
3. Uniqueness

As in the examples you provide, if you were to put a urinal on the wall, and put it there intentionally, you may consider it art. But that's not where it ends. In order for a piece to be considered "art", it also needs to have an acceptance in the art world for it to be considered art. The "art world" consists of artists, people viewing the galleries, critics, art museum directors, etc. Even though you might consider it a work of art, others might not, and if those others amount to a large amount, it probably won't be.

Then there's the factor of uniqueness. Sure, you might meet the first two criteria. But if someone else has already done something like that, then it isn't your art because the idea for the artwork isn't unique.

Take Blue Panel as an example: http://www.metmuseum.org...

The idea itself may not seem unique, but what the artist did was design this so that interpretation could be up to the viewer as to what it was. It's also angled towards the viewer, so the viewer would see a rectangular figure facing towards them (at first, I thought it looked like a rectangle + a triangle, myself). BUT, this piece meets the criteria:
1. It's unique (nobody else decided to make a piece exactly like blue panel)
2. It's been accepted (it's hanging up in my local art museum)
3. It shows intent (the artist got the right board and put time and effort into painting it just right).

Hopefully this answers your question.
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." - Vaarka
Vaarka
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2/1/2016 12:33:20 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 12:30:50 AM, Valkrin wrote:
To classify anything as "art", there needs to be three factors:
1. Intent
2. Acceptance
3. Uniqueness

As in the examples you provide, if you were to put a urinal on the wall, and put it there intentionally, you may consider it art. But that's not where it ends. In order for a piece to be considered "art", it also needs to have an acceptance in the art world for it to be considered art. The "art world" consists of artists, people viewing the galleries, critics, art museum directors, etc. Even though you might consider it a work of art, others might not, and if those others amount to a large amount, it probably won't be.

Then there's the factor of uniqueness. Sure, you might meet the first two criteria. But if someone else has already done something like that, then it isn't your art because the idea for the artwork isn't unique.

Take Blue Panel as an example: http://www.metmuseum.org...
Lol, this flipping panel XD

The idea itself may not seem unique, but what the artist did was design this so that interpretation could be up to the viewer as to what it was. It's also angled towards the viewer, so the viewer would see a rectangular figure facing towards them (at first, I thought it looked like a rectangle + a triangle, myself). BUT, this piece meets the criteria:
1. It's unique (nobody else decided to make a piece exactly like blue panel)
2. It's been accepted (it's hanging up in my local art museum)
3. It shows intent (the artist got the right board and put time and effort into painting it just right).

Hopefully this answers your question.

That's a better answer to what I'm asking (though I would like more answers)
You're probably thinking right now "haha I'm a genius". Well you're not -Valkrin

inferno: "I don't know, are you attracted to women?"
ButterCatX: "No, Vaarka is mine!"

All hail scum Vaarka, wielder of the bastard sword, smiter of nations, destroyer of spiders -VOT

"Vaarka, I've been thinking about this for a long time now," (pulls out small box made of macaroni) "W-will you be my noodle buddy?" -Kirigaya
Vaarka
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2/1/2016 12:46:23 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
I think I should restate my question in a different way.

Let's say you were walking through an art gallery, and you stumbled upon a poorly drawn spoon on a piece of canvas, like this one (I know it's not poor but apparently no one posts poorly drawn spoons these days): http://www.wetcanvas.com...

Now, you ask yourself, "is this really art?" and you think "Well, I don't think it's art". Suddenly, another person walks up beside you with their friend and says "Wow, look at this piece! It's beautiful!" And their friend agrees. After watching them wander off, you look back at the spoon and think "I don't think this is art, but they do..." and you dismiss it as "Oh, some people will interpret something as art, while I won't. It's not biggie!". However, as you continue to look through the art gallery, you see several similar drawings, paintings, sculptures, etc. Finally, after stumbling back to where the spoon is, you think "how are almost any of these art?"

So you decide you want to figure this out from a different point. You forget all the "it's about what you see" and the "some people will consider it art while you might not" crap. You ignore all of those typical answers to your question, and look back at the spoon. Without thinking about opinion or subjectiveness, you ask yourself, "Why is this spoon considered art? Why is this poorly drawn spoon, 'art'?".

So why is that poorly drawn spoon "art"?
You're probably thinking right now "haha I'm a genius". Well you're not -Valkrin

inferno: "I don't know, are you attracted to women?"
ButterCatX: "No, Vaarka is mine!"

All hail scum Vaarka, wielder of the bastard sword, smiter of nations, destroyer of spiders -VOT

"Vaarka, I've been thinking about this for a long time now," (pulls out small box made of macaroni) "W-will you be my noodle buddy?" -Kirigaya
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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2/1/2016 1:13:18 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/31/2016 11:48:55 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:41:39 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:40:41 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:39:20 PM, bsh1 wrote:

I guess what I can mean is this:
Why is this considered art,: http://lisacall.com...

But this is not considered art?: http://www.georgialifetraces.com...

Because one had artistic intent, the other didn't.

So if I were to hang a urinal on a gallery wall, sign it, and say I put it there with artistic intent, it would be art?

I mean, if the intent was genuine, yes.

Thats such a lame definition. Something is art if you want it to be lol

I critiqued that attitude in my other thread. By that definition, anything could be art, making the concept of art meaningless.
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Vaarka
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2/1/2016 1:16:47 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/1/2016 1:13:18 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:48:55 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:41:39 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:40:41 PM, Vaarka wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:39:20 PM, bsh1 wrote:

I guess what I can mean is this:
Why is this considered art,: http://lisacall.com...

But this is not considered art?: http://www.georgialifetraces.com...

Because one had artistic intent, the other didn't.

So if I were to hang a urinal on a gallery wall, sign it, and say I put it there with artistic intent, it would be art?

I mean, if the intent was genuine, yes.

Thats such a lame definition. Something is art if you want it to be lol

I critiqued that attitude in my other thread. By that definition, anything could be art, making the concept of art meaningless.

Glad to see someone agree with that XD. I mean, sure, whatever you think is art can be art, but why is it art?

I guess read the post I made above that took my like 7 minutes to type to have a better idea of what I mean when I say that.
You're probably thinking right now "haha I'm a genius". Well you're not -Valkrin

inferno: "I don't know, are you attracted to women?"
ButterCatX: "No, Vaarka is mine!"

All hail scum Vaarka, wielder of the bastard sword, smiter of nations, destroyer of spiders -VOT

"Vaarka, I've been thinking about this for a long time now," (pulls out small box made of macaroni) "W-will you be my noodle buddy?" -Kirigaya