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Who has won a debate?

socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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4/7/2011 5:31:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
There are 25,994 DDO members on this site. However only 2,250 of the members on this site have actualy won a debate.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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4/7/2011 5:33:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
That is less than 9% of the members currently on this site. Weird huh.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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4/7/2011 5:36:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
we get a lot of people that come to "debate" things that they don't know how to back up or support, only regurgitate what talk show hosts have told them. And so they come, get a loss or two, than leave.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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4/7/2011 5:41:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
We also have a lot of people that just create an account, and then never debate.

I only showed 2219 actually winning a debate (members that have at least 1% win ratio or higher), while we have 4879 members that have done a debate. That means that 2660 members have never won a debate. Over 1/2 of the people that have done a debate, never won any of them.

And of the 4879 that have actually done a debate, 4176 are in the 1-5 debate range.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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4/7/2011 5:47:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 5:41:35 PM, OreEle wrote:
We also have a lot of people that just create an account, and then never debate.

I only showed 2219 actually winning a debate (members that have at least 1% win ratio or higher), while we have 4879 members that have done a debate. That means that 2660 members have never won a debate. Over 1/2 of the people that have done a debate, never won any of them.

And of the 4879 that have actually done a debate, 4176 are in the 1-5 debate range.

That's weird.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
PervRat
Posts: 963
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4/7/2011 6:36:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Most of the site members seem to be conservative ... I'd say at least 2/3rds. Despite recent updates to the debate system, some folk who vote in debates I still notice will mark every category of every debate they vote on for their particular belief.

I admit it has been hard to force myself to grant a majority of points to the side of the argument I disagree with, because the one who argued for the side I do agree with poorly, and I believe I have seen quite a few DDO members do the same, but I don't think it quite undoes the bias from the members who do seem to vote otherwise -- especially in the heyday for that before votes were broken down to specific criteria (grammar and spelling, references, etc.) and before 'which side do you agree with?' no longer counted as points for that side (I seem to recall it used to).
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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4/7/2011 6:40:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 6:36:28 PM, PervRat wrote:
Most of the site members seem to be conservative ... I'd say at least 2/3rds. Despite recent updates to the debate system, some folk who vote in debates I still notice will mark every category of every debate they vote on for their particular belief.

I admit it has been hard to force myself to grant a majority of points to the side of the argument I disagree with, because the one who argued for the side I do agree with poorly, and I believe I have seen quite a few DDO members do the same, but I don't think it quite undoes the bias from the members who do seem to vote otherwise -- especially in the heyday for that before votes were broken down to specific criteria (grammar and spelling, references, etc.) and before 'which side do you agree with?' no longer counted as points for that side (I seem to recall it used to).

I pointed out in another thread that of active members, the most common political leanings are...
1) Libertarian
2) Conservative
3) Other
4) Anarchist
5) Liberal
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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4/7/2011 7:38:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 6:40:18 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/7/2011 6:36:28 PM, PervRat wrote:
Most of the site members seem to be conservative ... I'd say at least 2/3rds. Despite recent updates to the debate system, some folk who vote in debates I still notice will mark every category of every debate they vote on for their particular belief.

I admit it has been hard to force myself to grant a majority of points to the side of the argument I disagree with, because the one who argued for the side I do agree with poorly, and I believe I have seen quite a few DDO members do the same, but I don't think it quite undoes the bias from the members who do seem to vote otherwise -- especially in the heyday for that before votes were broken down to specific criteria (grammar and spelling, references, etc.) and before 'which side do you agree with?' no longer counted as points for that side (I seem to recall it used to).

I pointed out in another thread that of active members, the most common political leanings are...
1) Libertarian
2) Conservative
3) Other
4) Anarchist
5) Liberal

I don't see socialist. Too bad.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
PervRat
Posts: 963
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4/7/2011 8:00:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 7:38:19 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 4/7/2011 6:40:18 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/7/2011 6:36:28 PM, PervRat wrote:
Most of the site members seem to be conservative ... I'd say at least 2/3rds. Despite recent updates to the debate system, some folk who vote in debates I still notice will mark every category of every debate they vote on for their particular belief.

I admit it has been hard to force myself to grant a majority of points to the side of the argument I disagree with, because the one who argued for the side I do agree with poorly, and I believe I have seen quite a few DDO members do the same, but I don't think it quite undoes the bias from the members who do seem to vote otherwise -- especially in the heyday for that before votes were broken down to specific criteria (grammar and spelling, references, etc.) and before 'which side do you agree with?' no longer counted as points for that side (I seem to recall it used to).

I pointed out in another thread that of active members, the most common political leanings are...
1) Libertarian
2) Conservative
3) Other
4) Anarchist
5) Liberal

I don't see socialist. Too bad.

The 'categories' seem a bit arbitrary and silly to me. 'Socialist' was probably lumped in with 'Liberal,' and I'm guessing most of it was probably derived from what folk mark themselves as in their profiles, not what their actual beliefs are.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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4/7/2011 9:44:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 7:38:19 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 4/7/2011 6:40:18 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/7/2011 6:36:28 PM, PervRat wrote:
Most of the site members seem to be conservative ... I'd say at least 2/3rds. Despite recent updates to the debate system, some folk who vote in debates I still notice will mark every category of every debate they vote on for their particular belief.

I admit it has been hard to force myself to grant a majority of points to the side of the argument I disagree with, because the one who argued for the side I do agree with poorly, and I believe I have seen quite a few DDO members do the same, but I don't think it quite undoes the bias from the members who do seem to vote otherwise -- especially in the heyday for that before votes were broken down to specific criteria (grammar and spelling, references, etc.) and before 'which side do you agree with?' no longer counted as points for that side (I seem to recall it used to).

I pointed out in another thread that of active members, the most common political leanings are...
1) Libertarian
2) Conservative
3) Other
4) Anarchist
5) Liberal

I don't see socialist. Too bad.

socialist was further down the list, those are only the top 5 (excluding those that didn't answer).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Grape
Posts: 989
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4/7/2011 10:13:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 6:36:28 PM, PervRat wrote:
Most of the site members seem to be conservative ... I'd say at least 2/3rds.

lol @ still not knowing the difference between a libertarian and a conservative.
Zealous1
Posts: 111
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4/8/2011 11:00:07 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 6:36:28 PM, PervRat wrote:
Most of the site members seem to be conservative ... I'd say at least 2/3rds. Despite recent updates to the debate system, some folk who vote in debates I still notice will mark every category of every debate they vote on for their particular belief.

I admit it has been hard to force myself to grant a majority of points to the side of the argument I disagree with, because the one who argued for the side I do agree with poorly, and I believe I have seen quite a few DDO members do the same, but I don't think it quite undoes the bias from the members who do seem to vote otherwise -- especially in the heyday for that before votes were broken down to specific criteria (grammar and spelling, references, etc.) and before 'which side do you agree with?' no longer counted as points for that side (I seem to recall it used to).

I hate judge bias. It ruins my debates all the time. Sometimes I just CLEARLY won. The other team has no arguments standing. And the judge votes for the other team!

What I also hate is judges who aren't well-trained. Some people vote against you for something picky, like a piece of evidence that isn't good, when the other team didn't even bring it up themselves. You need to vote on what people have said, not your own argumentation about it.

Another one is when on net benefits they vote against you for one little point that doesn't matter at all. For example, in my affirmative case in team policy, I have three advantages. The negative team comes and takes out one. I respond and destroy their attack on it. The judge votes Negative because of that point. Even though there are two other advantages. -.-

Judges can be annoying sometimes.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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4/8/2011 1:32:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
For judging, it doesn't matter what the beliefs of the total membership are, it only matters what the prejudices of members who judge debates are. For example, I cannot recall anyone ever winning a debate by opposing gay marriage or abortion. It's probably happened, but the odds are against it. I can recall a couple of wins by those opposing unlimited drugs, but that's rare as well.

The number of sustained contentions does not determine the winner. If there are four valid reasons for doing something and only one good reason not to, the one good reason against it may be persuasive. For example, there are more than twenty reasons why airline travel is unsafe (bird strikes, icing, pilot error, etc.) but the statistics show that overall it is safe, and the statistics are compelling.

There is a question about how much knowledge a judge should bring to a debate. The lawyer school of thought is that judges should bring no baggage with them, so, for example, that a debate on the shape of the earth should be judged without prejudice as to whether the earth is round or flat. I think the standard should be that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and it is fair for a judge to identify a claim as extraordinary based upon common knowledge.

This parallels the notion of "innocent until proven guilty," that there is burden of proof to upset common knowledge. To invoke this, something must be "common" and not the result of extensive personal investigations. Note that only a few of the terms in a debate are defined by the debaters, and we rely upon common knowledge of the meanings of all the other words used in the debate. We must always suppose the reader brings knowledge to the debate. A reader also brings knowledge of logical fallacies and other types of errors.

A debater can still win a debate claiming the earth is flat, but his round-earth opponent has to fail to cite any good evidence to the contrary.