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Wait Before You Post?

SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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5/14/2011 9:02:48 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Why not make an wait period before new users are allowed to post so that we could cut down on multi-accounts and trolls?
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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5/14/2011 9:50:49 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/14/2011 9:34:11 AM, frenchmoosetwo wrote:
that would only delay not solve though

But hopefully it could deter most of the 2-bit trolls, but serious trolls would have to be dealt with personally.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
frenchmoosetwo
Posts: 255
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5/14/2011 10:10:12 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/14/2011 9:50:49 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 5/14/2011 9:34:11 AM, frenchmoosetwo wrote:
that would only delay not solve though

But hopefully it could deter most of the 2-bit trolls, but serious trolls would have to be dealt with personally.

This wait time may push back some trolls, but it would also effect new legit members
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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5/14/2011 10:25:41 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Trolls look for attention, if you want to get rid of them then :

1) accept the troll debate but do not post a first round, this effectively cancels it.

2) do not post in the comments of troll debates

3) ignore the trolls in the forums

In short do not engage in any manner, without attention they will go elsewhere. Now if a troll accepts your debate then simply reply deadpan, do not engage in the trollng, play it 100% straight and take an easy victory and even thank him for the win.

If you see a troll / multi-vote bombing, do NOT vote bomb back, again that is what they want to see. Vote with a quality RFD, ignore the troll, and at most (in PM's) encourage people to vote, again not to directly counter act the troll, but vote as they would ignoring them and simply make his vote just background noise.

It is simple, once they realize they can stir nothing up they will go to somewhere they can.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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5/14/2011 11:05:11 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/14/2011 10:25:41 AM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
Trolls look for attention, if you want to get rid of them then :

1) accept the troll debate but do not post a first round, this effectively cancels it.

2) do not post in the comments of troll debates

3) ignore the trolls in the forums

In short do not engage in any manner, without attention they will go elsewhere. Now if a troll accepts your debate then simply reply deadpan, do not engage in the trollng, play it 100% straight and take an easy victory and even thank him for the win.

If you see a troll / multi-vote bombing, do NOT vote bomb back, again that is what they want to see. Vote with a quality RFD, ignore the troll, and at most (in PM's) encourage people to vote, again not to directly counter act the troll, but vote as they would ignoring them and simply make his vote just background noise.

It is simple, once they realize they can stir nothing up they will go to somewhere they can.

Do not do your first number, I have seen people do this to legitimate debates.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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5/14/2011 11:06:21 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/14/2011 10:10:12 AM, frenchmoosetwo wrote:
At 5/14/2011 9:50:49 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 5/14/2011 9:34:11 AM, frenchmoosetwo wrote:
that would only delay not solve though

But hopefully it could deter most of the 2-bit trolls, but serious trolls would have to be dealt with personally.

This wait time may push back some trolls, but it would also effect new legit members

Yes but this also ensures that we get more serious members [such as the debate before you vote].
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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5/14/2011 11:20:34 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/14/2011 11:05:11 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:

Do not do your first number, I have seen people do this to legitimate debates.

Yes, that is the problem with any action against trolls, not everyone is really trolling. There are some members here like badger who add a very unique aspect to the forums, however by many definitions he could be considered a troll. However if anyone with any sense interacts with him for even a few exchanges they will realize he is not a troll at all - he is just irish. In short, don't go on a troll busting rampage and just take the banhammer action as noted if you see an obvious troll resolution "gays are gay" with an OP :

"Yeah."

But engage debates like :

"Nazi's would make good neighbors.", with an OP :

"My neighbor stole my job."

As that could be an attempt at satire so assume you are dealing with a Borat and not a racist.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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5/14/2011 11:37:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/14/2011 11:20:34 AM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 5/14/2011 11:05:11 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:

Do not do your first number, I have seen people do this to legitimate debates.

Yes, that is the problem with any action against trolls, not everyone is really trolling. There are some members here like badger who add a very unique aspect to the forums, however by many definitions he could be considered a troll. However if anyone with any sense interacts with him for even a few exchanges they will realize he is not a troll at all - he is just irish. In short, don't go on a troll busting rampage and just take the banhammer action as noted if you see an obvious troll resolution "gays are gay" with an OP :

"Yeah."

But engage debates like :

"Nazi's would make good neighbors.", with an OP :

"My neighbor stole my job."

As that could be an attempt at satire so assume you are dealing with a Borat and not a racist.

Exactly, I propose the use of bipartisan third parties to do this job for members will often use their own personal bias to influence their decisions about who's a troll and who is not.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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5/14/2011 12:35:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/14/2011 9:02:48 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
Why not make an wait period before new users are allowed to post so that we could cut down on multi-accounts and trolls?

Because the probability of a new member remaining active is inversely proportional to the amount of time it takes to be able to use the site.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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5/14/2011 1:25:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/14/2011 12:35:39 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 5/14/2011 9:02:48 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
Why not make an wait period before new users are allowed to post so that we could cut down on multi-accounts and trolls?

Because the probability of a new member remaining active is inversely proportional to the amount of time it takes to be able to use the site.

Good point.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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5/14/2011 6:59:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/14/2011 11:37:23 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:

Exactly, I propose the use of bipartisan third parties to do this job for members will often use their own personal bias to influence their decisions about who's a troll and who is not.

To be frank, everyone does this anyway. I for example ignore trolls generally as a rule, I am of course using my own judgment to infer who is or is not a troll. There is a tremendous potential to abuse the accept/forfeit method because for example if I debated PCP and lose, and I am a juvenile idjit then I can do this with each of his debates and prevent him from ever having a debate unless he specifically blocks me from accepting or only issues private challenges. However in general this ability is not overly abused in the manner, though it is curious as to why given the nature of some of the harassment seen why this is not employed. I would venture to say that is does not create the drama and attention desired by the "troll hunters".
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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5/14/2011 9:09:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/14/2011 6:59:23 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 5/14/2011 11:37:23 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:

Exactly, I propose the use of bipartisan third parties to do this job for members will often use their own personal bias to influence their decisions about who's a troll and who is not.

To be frank, everyone does this anyway. I for example ignore trolls generally as a rule, I am of course using my own judgment to infer who is or is not a troll. There is a tremendous potential to abuse the accept/forfeit method because for example if I debated PCP and lose, and I am a juvenile idjit then I can do this with each of his debates and prevent him from ever having a debate unless he specifically blocks me from accepting or only issues private challenges. However in general this ability is not overly abused in the manner, though it is curious as to why given the nature of some of the harassment seen why this is not employed. I would venture to say that is does not create the drama and attention desired by the "troll hunters".

Specifically why we need an bipartisan third party, or an individual who is experienced on this site and can respect opposing opinions [such as innomen] as an moderator.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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5/14/2011 9:18:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/14/2011 9:09:17 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:

Specifically why we need an bipartisan third party, or an individual who is experienced on this site and can respect opposing opinions [such as innomen] as an moderator.

An experienced moderator can help, but it is not a trivial task. I was on a municipal council, served as deputy mayor and as mayor and one of the chief roles of the latter two is discussion moderation. The number one rule is to leave your own views off of the table - that takes experience as otherwise all you will do is create a distorted personal vision. If you take it seriously it is also not a pleasing task as you are constantly aggravating people who will want to make a personal vision. I beliee innomen could readily do it, but I am not sure he would want it.

I would suggest instead a more involved membership, starting liking video's that you think are positive, comment on them, make them popular that way and thus force them to the front of all searches through feedback. This way the promoted videos will be a reflection of the community as a whole.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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5/14/2011 9:23:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/14/2011 9:18:49 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 5/14/2011 9:09:17 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:

Specifically why we need an bipartisan third party, or an individual who is experienced on this site and can respect opposing opinions [such as innomen] as an moderator.

An experienced moderator can help, but it is not a trivial task. I was on a municipal council, served as deputy mayor and as mayor and one of the chief roles of the latter two is discussion moderation. The number one rule is to leave your own views off of the table - that takes experience as otherwise all you will do is create a distorted personal vision. If you take it seriously it is also not a pleasing task as you are constantly aggravating people who will want to make a personal vision. I beliee innomen could readily do it, but I am not sure he would want it.

I would suggest instead a more involved membership, starting liking video's that you think are positive, comment on them, make them popular that way and thus force them to the front of all searches through feedback. This way the promoted videos will be a reflection of the community as a whole.

Great idea that we could agree I just wonder how we would implement the screening system for potential moderators.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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5/14/2011 9:24:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The third party system has marginally impressed me recently. The debates I've reported were all mainly deleted.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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5/14/2011 9:38:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/14/2011 9:23:06 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:

Great idea that we could agree I just wonder how we would implement the screening system for potential moderators.

Experience/interview, same as any job. Spotting someone who can be an effective moderator is trivial because it is more about temperament and ego than anything else. All you gain with experience is how to make a discussion more productive by increasing the exchange of information but that is minor compared to the personality attributes which are necessary. For example the de Bono hat system is great for information flow in meetings but on a debate/forum list you just need more of an offensive filter than anything else.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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5/15/2011 12:09:00 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/14/2011 9:02:48 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
Why not make an wait period before new users are allowed to post so that we could cut down on multi-accounts and trolls?

I'm not a big fan of all the regulations it takes to use this site.

Three debate rule.

1. It might actually encourage spam debates.

2. Discourage legitimate debaters from even bothering.

3. Encourages Nazi members to treat people as if they are garbage.

Why implement regulations that just encourage more spam/troll behavior.

Why not implement engineering controls that encourages quality debates and members?

Leader board is nothing more then a reason to cheat and engage in low quality tactics. This encourages people to debate themselves to jump up their ratio. It also encourages newb sniping and semantics from the better debaters.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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5/15/2011 12:11:57 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/15/2011 12:09:00 AM, jharry wrote:

Leader board is nothing more then a reason to cheat and engage in low quality tactics. This encourages people to debate themselves to jump up their ratio. It also encourages newb sniping and semantics from the better debaters.

Yes, switch to elo-based systems.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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5/15/2011 12:20:28 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/15/2011 12:11:57 AM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 5/15/2011 12:09:00 AM, jharry wrote:

Leader board is nothing more then a reason to cheat and engage in low quality tactics. This encourages people to debate themselves to jump up their ratio. It also encourages newb sniping and semantics from the better debaters.

Yes, switch to elo-based systems.

Yes. I wonder why it wasn't implemented? Maybe because it would undue years of newb sniping?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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5/15/2011 12:24:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Is there a way to actually see who debated who without a very exhaustive individual method? It is not like elo is hard to calculate, if I had the data I could generate the list trivially.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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5/15/2011 12:31:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/15/2011 12:24:19 AM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
Is there a way to actually see who debated who without a very exhaustive individual method? It is not like elo is hard to calculate, if I had the data I could generate the list trivially.

I'm sure the program would be easily incorporated into the site. I hear it is used for chess websites.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Fabian_CH
Posts: 232
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5/15/2011 4:59:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/14/2011 9:02:48 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
Why not make an wait period before new users are allowed to post so that we could cut down on multi-accounts and trolls?
Bad idea. You'd cut down interested new mebers just as much (or more) than trolls.

I myself would have probably lost interest if I'd have had to wait. Now that might have been a good or a bad thing, but you know... :) ;)
"What are we doing? Do we want to feed a starved humanity in order to let it live? Or do we want to strangle its life in order to feed it?"
- Andrei Taganov, We The Living (Ayn Rand)
Phoenix_Reaper
Posts: 318
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5/15/2011 7:38:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/15/2011 4:59:38 PM, Fabian_CH wrote:
At 5/14/2011 9:02:48 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
Why not make an wait period before new users are allowed to post so that we could cut down on multi-accounts and trolls?
Bad idea. You'd cut down interested new mebers just as much (or more) than trolls.

I myself would have probably lost interest if I'd have had to wait. Now that might have been a good or a bad thing, but you know... :) ;)

I agree. I would have lost a lot of interest in a wait period to post It is bad enough that you got to debate before you can vote for new people that intent to actually be useful.
Phoenix Reaper - To rise from the ashes of defeat and claim your soul.

: At 3/15/2011 4:23:07 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
: Taste is for pussïes. Be a nihilist. Drink vodka.
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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5/15/2011 7:52:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The funny thing is that the three debate rule hurts the site more than hinders it. Take members who want to have quality debates, they need at least 2-4 weeks to have three debates. That means they have to wait a month before they can vote on debates and thus they read the debates and can not vote, that hardly encourages anyone. What it does do, which is negative, is encourage new users to make three pointless debates in a hurry so they can vote. How is that a good thing.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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5/15/2011 8:01:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/15/2011 7:52:16 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
The funny thing is that the three debate rule hurts the site more than hinders it. Take members who want to have quality debates, they need at least 2-4 weeks to have three debates. That means they have to wait a month before they can vote on debates and thus they read the debates and can not vote, that hardly encourages anyone. What it does do, which is negative, is encourage new users to make three pointless debates in a hurry so they can vote. How is that a good thing.

I agree.

Votebombing really isn't a problem like it used to be. The open vote tab took care of all the more serious voting problems.

Now it is a vote here or there. Nothing like the massive attacks and bias blocs if the old days.

The more restrictions you put in place the less quality you will see. The three debate rule is nothing more then the elite trying to keep people from voting.

Remove the rule but also include the elo system and the tournaments.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen