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Top Debaters per ideology?

CiRrK
Posts: 670
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5/23/2011 12:32:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Im curious to see who most ppl think are the best debaters within their respective ideological beliefs? (Insert names)

Libertarian

1.
2.

Anarchist

1.
2.

Liberal/Socialist/Progressive

1.
2.

Conservative

1.
2.
CiRrK
Posts: 670
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5/23/2011 12:45:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/23/2011 12:43:42 PM, Koopin wrote:
At 5/23/2011 12:32:16 PM, CiRrK wrote:

Conservative

1. Danielle
2. Sieben

Haha yup. ^_^ Exactly
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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5/23/2011 1:00:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/23/2011 12:32:16 PM, CiRrK wrote:
Im curious to see who most ppl think are the best debaters within their respective ideological beliefs? (Insert names)

Libertarian

1. Mongoose
2. Wjelements

Anarchist

1. J.Kenyon
2. Grape

Liberal/Socialist/Progressive

1. Danielle
2. Freeman

Conservative

1. RoyLatham
2. Cirrk

I think Danielle and Freeman are anarchist now, so I'm not sure they are considered part of Liberal/Social/Progressives. It seems like a common trend that the best debaters tend to gear towards anarchism.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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5/23/2011 1:21:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I did a little fooling with the Advanced Search and discovered that the ideological labels people choose to not map very closely to their stands on the issues. For example, I would think that libertarians would be reliably opposed to National Health Care. However while about 500 oppose National Health Care, about 200 favor it. The are presumably in the Libertarians for Socialism caucus. It's much the same with anarchists, of which about 150 favored government running health care.

How about free trade per NAFTA? Many libertarians oppose it.

I think what this means is that people tend to adopt ideological labels based upon abstractions, but they are adept at fitting particular stands on issues under the heading they have chosen. Danielle was very upset at my claim that there are a fair number of leftists on the site. She maintained there were vanishingly few. She's correct in terms of how people label themselves, but wrong in terms of the stands on issues. There is no problem finding libertarians and anarchists who strongly favor expanding government.

I don't thin this is a problem. People are free to describe themselves as they wish. But once you get past the abstract generalities, there is a lot of divergence.
twsurber
Posts: 505
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5/23/2011 1:50:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/23/2011 1:21:27 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I did a little fooling with the Advanced Search and discovered that the ideological labels people choose to not map very closely to their stands on the issues. For example, I would think that libertarians would be reliably opposed to National Health Care. However while about 500 oppose National Health Care, about 200 favor it. The are presumably in the Libertarians for Socialism caucus. It's much the same with anarchists, of which about 150 favored government running health care.

How about free trade per NAFTA? Many libertarians oppose it.

I think what this means is that people tend to adopt ideological labels based upon abstractions, but they are adept at fitting particular stands on issues under the heading they have chosen. Danielle was very upset at my claim that there are a fair number of leftists on the site. She maintained there were vanishingly few. She's correct in terms of how people label themselves, but wrong in terms of the stands on issues. There is no problem finding libertarians and anarchists who strongly favor expanding government.

I don't thin this is a problem. People are free to describe themselves as they wish. But once you get past the abstract generalities, there is a lot of divergence.

Amen Roy!
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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5/23/2011 1:55:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/23/2011 1:21:27 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I did a little fooling with the Advanced Search and discovered that the ideological labels people choose to not map very closely to their stands on the issues. For example, I would think that libertarians would be reliably opposed to National Health Care. However while about 500 oppose National Health Care, about 200 favor it. The are presumably in the Libertarians for Socialism caucus. It's much the same with anarchists, of which about 150 favored government running health care.

How about free trade per NAFTA? Many libertarians oppose it.

I think what this means is that people tend to adopt ideological labels based upon abstractions, but they are adept at fitting particular stands on issues under the heading they have chosen. Danielle was very upset at my claim that there are a fair number of leftists on the site. She maintained there were vanishingly few. She's correct in terms of how people label themselves, but wrong in terms of the stands on issues. There is no problem finding libertarians and anarchists who strongly favor expanding government.

I don't thin this is a problem. People are free to describe themselves as they wish. But once you get past the abstract generalities, there is a lot of divergence.

You can't really compare the demographics of the regular members on debate.org and the demographics of all members on debate.org

Conservatives and Liberals are the two largest categories, in terms of DDO demographics chart. Only 4% of DDO members are anarchists, however a lot of the anarchists are frequent posters and debaters.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/23/2011 1:58:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
@RoyLatham

I think my Big Issues may say I support Universal Healthcare, but that's because I haven't updated it in over two years before I became Libertarian.

As far as opposing NAFTA, every Libertarian should oppose it because it is a step towards a North American Union which is a step towards the New World Order, a totalitarian big brother dictatorship which every Libertarian opposes.

So it is entirely consistent for a Libertarian to oppose NAFTA.
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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5/23/2011 2:00:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/23/2011 1:58:38 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
@RoyLatham

I think my Big Issues may say I support Universal Healthcare, but that's because I haven't updated it in over two years before I became Libertarian.

As far as opposing NAFTA, every Libertarian should oppose it because it is a step towards a North American Union which is a step towards the New World Order, a totalitarian big brother dictatorship which every Libertarian opposes.

So it is entirely consistent for a Libertarian to oppose NAFTA.

That could be argued. Any accepted agreement between state entities, only legitimizes those states.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Charles0103
Posts: 523
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5/23/2011 3:07:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/23/2011 1:58:38 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
@RoyLatham

I think my Big Issues may say I support Universal Healthcare, but that's because I haven't updated it in over two years before I became Libertarian.

Waoh, dude! You use to be a liberal?
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/23/2011 3:18:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/23/2011 1:58:38 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
As far as opposing NAFTA, every Libertarian should oppose it because it is a step towards a North American Union which is a step towards the New World Order, a totalitarian big brother dictatorship which every Libertarian opposes.
The New World Order doesn't exist nor is it a proposal on the table. As such, we have no idea whether it would be more or less totalitarian than the non-world orders today. And "Big brother" is less totalitarian than big mommy or big daddy.

The North American Union also does not exist nor is it a proposal on the table, and it's hard to say what it's a step toward. ^_^


So it is entirely consistent for a Libertarian to oppose NAFTA.
This is true, but it is not necessary for one to do so from libertarianism alone.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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5/23/2011 3:21:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Libertarian--- Puck

Anarchist--- Grape

Conservative--- Serk

It's slim pickings for all the other ideologies.
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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5/23/2011 3:35:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/23/2011 12:32:16 PM, CiRrK wrote:
Im curious to see who most ppl think are the best debaters within their respective ideological beliefs? (Insert names)

Libertarian

1. Puck
2. WJM

Anarchist

1. J.Kenyon
2. Cody or Grape

Liberal/Socialist/Progressive

1. Danielle
2. Feverish

Conservative

1. Roy
2. CiRrK
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Charles0103
Posts: 523
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5/23/2011 3:50:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/23/2011 12:32:16 PM, CiRrK wrote:
Im curious to see who most ppl think are the best debaters within their respective ideological beliefs? (Insert names)

Libertarian

1.
2.

Anarchist

1.
2.

Liberal/Socialist/Progressive

1. Charles0103
2.

Conservative

1.
2.

I don't care about the other spots; I just thought I should go ahead and claim my rightful place.
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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5/23/2011 3:53:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/23/2011 3:50:37 PM, Charles0103 wrote:
At 5/23/2011 12:32:16 PM, CiRrK wrote:
Im curious to see who most ppl think are the best debaters within their respective ideological beliefs? (Insert names)

Libertarian

1.
2.

Anarchist

1.
2.

Liberal/Socialist/Progressive

1. Charles0103
2.

Conservative

1.
2.

I don't care about the other spots; I just thought I should go ahead and claim my rightful place.

Get another 26 wins, and you can join the other 3 progressives which are 99'ers. However, I don't think any of them are active.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Grape
Posts: 989
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5/23/2011 5:06:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/23/2011 12:32:16 PM, CiRrK wrote:
Im curious to see who most ppl think are the best debaters within their respective ideological beliefs? (Insert names)

Libertarian

1. Puck
2. wjmelements

Anarchist

1. J.Kenyon
2. Sieben

Liberal/Socialist/Progressive

1. popculturepooka
2. unitedandy

Conservative

1. RoyLatham
2. CirRk

Is this based on actual debating politics or in general? I put PCP as number 1 for liberal but because he is liberal and he is very good, but he doesn't really do political debates.
Grape
Posts: 989
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5/23/2011 5:12:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/23/2011 1:21:27 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
How about free trade per NAFTA? Many libertarians oppose it.

I think this is a matter of short vs. long term and dependent vs. independent goals. If I based my Big Issues only on what should be done right now and on its own, I would change several of my positions. Instead, I base them on what I would consider ideal. It's kind of a matter of opinion whether you define your philosophy in terms of immediate goals or the desired result.

Regardless, you make a strong point with most of the rest of your post. I agree that ideological labels don't necessarily categorize people the way you would think. Certainly you wouldn't expect all the anarchists be closely associated with libertarians and conservatives.
CiRrK
Posts: 670
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5/23/2011 10:35:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/23/2011 5:06:09 PM, Grape wrote:
At 5/23/2011 12:32:16 PM, CiRrK wrote:
Im curious to see who most ppl think are the best debaters within their respective ideological beliefs? (Insert names)

Libertarian

1. Puck
2. wjmelements

Anarchist

1. J.Kenyon
2. Sieben

Liberal/Socialist/Progressive

1. popculturepooka
2. unitedandy

Conservative

1. RoyLatham
2. CirRk

Is this based on actual debating politics or in general? I put PCP as number 1 for liberal but because he is liberal and he is very good, but he doesn't really do political debates.

Eh, its pretty much on w/e u feel is important in determining a good debater.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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5/24/2011 12:03:51 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
i think roy is one of the most, if not the most, impressive debaters on the site. with many of his debates the position he advocates seems basically indefensible to me... and then he comes out with a coherent defense that completely stumps his opponent. so props to roy for sure.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Johnicle
Posts: 888
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5/24/2011 12:35:20 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm claiming my spot as 'can't make up my mind'... I'm registered Libertarian but mostly because I am passionate about civil liberties. But a lot of economic issues I am progressive because I believe we should help our fellow man.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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5/24/2011 2:30:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/23/2011 1:55:03 PM, darkkermit wrote:
You can't really compare the demographics of the regular members on debate.org and the demographics of all members on debate.org

Conservatives and Liberals are the two largest categories, in terms of DDO demographics chart. Only 4% of DDO members are anarchists, however a lot of the anarchists are frequent posters and debaters.

The search engine allows searching for members who have been on line in the past 72 hours. That's a reasonable sample of most active:

Socialist 18 members
Anarchist 18 members
Conservative 48 members
Libertarian 46 members
Liberal 29 member
Moderate 19 members
Communist 4 member
Other 27 members
Undecided 29 members
Not saying 160 members

Total 420 members

The other categories of ideology are sparse.

Anyway, anarchists are not much more active than their overall percentage. I think it seems there are more of them because they are so strident.
Grape
Posts: 989
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5/24/2011 4:07:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/24/2011 2:30:43 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
Anyway, anarchists are not much more active than their overall percentage. I think it seems there are more of them because they are so strident.

I think this is a good explanation for that perception. One does not become an anarchist without having strong political opinions. A representation of 4% is also much higher than you would see in the general population. Comparatively, people who are Undecided or Not Saying will not strike anyone as common for the obvious reason that they often won't be remembered for their political statements at all.