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DDO Presidential Debate

Ore_Ele
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6/2/2011 2:40:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Askbob and Innomen started a debate via PM last week (Friday) and finished up yesterday (Wednesday). It was nice that it required very few questions. Many of you sent me questions via PMs that pretty much got answered in their back and forth, so they weren't directly asked.

I know this comes out fairly long, though I don't think that I can make a summarization of it while accurately maintaining neutrality.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
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6/2/2011 2:41:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
OreEle
Hello,

Just getting the presidential debate started. First thing, I would like to confirm that you both are still interested in doing this?

innomen
I am, tomorrow i will be more attentive though, but i will do what i can now.

askbob
will be more attentive friday as well

OreEle
okay, then we'll start tomorrow (friday). Just to lay the basic format.

I will ask a question which will be directed to either both of you or one of you. If to both of you, you can each present your answer, then refute/attack each other's, then defend yours. We'll only do one cycle of that before moving to the next question.

If the question is for only one of you, then that person will answer, the other will refute, then that person will defend and we will move on again.

Just like a real presidential debate, I, as "moderator," have no real power to prevent you two from getting focused on a particular question and keep going back and forth. If that happens, the debate will end, but I will still post the ENTIRE conversation. I will not edit out anything (except for side questions and formating things), so that it is kind of like a "live" debate.

askbob
cool beans

innomen
Yeah fine.

OreEle
Okay, the first question I have for both you, is how will your individual platforms ultimately benefit the DDO website?

Remember to first, present your answer, then refute your opponent's, then defend yours from refutation (preferibly in three seperate posts).

askbob
Do you want me to go through every policy or give a general answer?

OreEle
A general answer, as if you were to say it, but were limited to 2 or 3 minutes of talking (so slightly in depth).

askbob
-Appoint RoyLatham as the Bug Committee leader and organize monthly bug reports for the moderators
- Organize a monthly forum for members to brainstorm new additions to the site (chat-ability, mongoose's optional curse filter, user-mods for mafia threads, username-anonymity for mafia threads, vote-count, RFD report-ability, ability to see if RFD's are required before accepting a debate, ability to embed images, redesign of the banner for holidays, ability to pick a timezone and display it so users can see what time it is where you are and have this be independent of the users profile location)
-Get a link to the fans site and wiki on this site
-Get more people active in the wiki and make it a sitewide wiki not just mafia like before
-Create a new list format whereby those who are willing to mod a mafia game put themselves on a list and then players rank them. Bottom 50% are cut, top 50% go in order of rank. The remaining 50% of mods play their games in order until all games are complete then this process is redone.
-Separate pool for beginner games and quickfire games
-Optional Curse Filter
- Work with the mods to create a reporting page whereby all members can review who was banned and the reasons for their banning. Allowing complete transparency within the administration.
-Big Issue update
-Subforums for mafia games to better organize DP threads.
-ability for the creator of a PM to add/remove players from it at any time.
-The ability to sort PM's by user (alphabetical)
-The ability to sort PM's by subject (alphabetical)
-ability for the creator of a forum thread within the games forum to prevent specific players from posting in it at any time and allow them to post in it again at any time.
-ability for the creator of a forum thread within the games forum to lock the thread at any time.
- ability for the creator of the subforum within the games forum to sticky and unsticky a thread within that subforum at any time.
- Removal of the NOT ALL CAPS filter
- Continuation of beginner games
- A formal social media attack plan aimed at recruiting more members. Facebook, myspace, inviting friends sending out messages, posting example debates, a twitter account, increased web presence.
-Aesthetic Touch - Remove the "My" from the left-hand account menu so it would read:

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Wikileaks (Julian Assange) (JBlake, Askbob, Cody, wjm, J.Kenyon, FREEDO, m93samman, Freeman)
Protectionism (JBlake, Askbob, wjm, J.Kenyon, FREEDO)
President Obama (JBlake, Askbob, Cody, Koopin, Grape, wjm, J.Kenyon, FREEDO, m93samman, Freeman)
Sin Taxes (JBlake, Askbob, wjm, Cody, J.Kenyon, FREEDO)
Ron Paul (JBlake, Askbob, m93samman)
Keynesian Economics (JBlake, Askbob, FREEDO)
Austrian Economics (JBlake, Askbob, FREEDO)
Marijuana Legalization (JBlake, Askbob, Cody, J.Kenyon, FREEDO, m93samman, Freeman)
Full Drug Legalization (JBlake, Askbob, Cody, J.Kenyon, FREEDO, m93samman)
'TSA' ('Enhanced Patdowns') (JBlake, Askbob, Cody, usafkid, grape, wjm, FREEDO, m93samman)
Frank Dodd Act (Askbob)
Nuclear power in North Korea (Askbob, m93samman)
Agricultural Subsidies (Askbob, wjm, J.Kenyon, FREEDO)
Prostitution Legalization (Cody, Askbob, wjm, Badger, J.Kenyon, FREEDO, Freeman)
Romeo and Juliet Clause (Age of Consent) (Cody, Askbob)
Open Immigration (Cody, Askbob, J.Kenyon, FREEDO, m93samman)
Intellectual Property / Piracy (wjm, askbob, J.Kenyon, FREEDO, m93samman)
NASA (wjm, askbob, J.Kenyon, FREEDO, m93samman)
Federal Reserve System (wjm, askbob, J.Kenyon, FREEDO, m93samman)
Anti-Trust (wjm, askbob, J.Kenyon, FREEDO, m93samman)
Capitalism (FREEDO, m93samman)
Socialism (FREEDO, m93samman)
Funeral Picketing (Mirza, Askbob)
Net Neutrality (JBlake, Askbob)

Remove:
Border Fence(JBlake, Askbob, Cody, J.Kenyon, m93samman)
President George W. Bush(JBlake, Askbob, Koopin, Grape, Cody, wjm, J.Kenyon, FREEDO, m93samman, Freeman)
Police Profiling(JBlake, Askbob, Cody, J.Kenyon, m93samman)
Social Programs (Askbob, Cody, J.Kenyon, m93samman)
World Trade Organization (Askbob, Cody, J.Kenyon, m93samman)
United States (Mirza)

Alter:
War on Terror(Askbob, Cody, wjm, FREEDO, m93samman) - alter to "Interventionism"
Tobacco Rights (Askbob, JBlake, m93samman)- alter to make the meaning more clear
Patriotism - (Askbob, JBlake, Badger, m93samman)alter to make the meaning more clear
Waterboarding - change to 'Torture for interrogation' (Askbob, Badger, FREEDO) change to 'Enhanced Interrogation" (JBlake) - Keep waterboarding and add "Enhanced Interrogation" (wjm, Freeman)
PETA - To "Animal Rights"(Grape, Freeman)

the deletion of the record attempts at most posts
-ELO Rating System to replace current system

-Under Political Choices, the choices will be scaled back to 5 options for Political. There will be a separate option for economic choices. Next to each there will be an additional text box that members can fill to further explain their ideology.

askbob
Bug Reports to the moderators clearly keep the site working well and allow the site to retain more visitors who will see the site as legit rather unmaintained.

askbob
A lot of good ideas came from forum discussion when Juggle initially bought DDO. They were excellent ideas, and I'm sure we can get more by having similar monthly discussions of ways to make the site better

askbob
The fans site and wiki are great ways in my opinion to easily incorporate a blog feature and keep track of DDO terminology, events, users, and add a bit of humor to the site. It makes people feel like they are a part of the community when they have a page dedicated to them. Also a lot of members have outside blogs that are interesting to read to get to know what people are thinking about certain issues.

I think to each would generate more user activity and allow the fans site to grow. Personally I'd like all of the features of the fans site to be incorporated here, but if Juggle does not feel like going to the effort to code this then a link would be nice so that all members not just the regulars could use and see those features.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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6/2/2011 2:42:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
askbob
As said previously, a site-wide wiki adds humor and helps keep track of DDO events that some people are uneducated about. Also a good way to keep history and avoid losing great guides like the debaters cookbook

askbob
The Mafia Mod list is a broken system for the most part. There are moderators who have just done a terrible job at their games and shouldn't be allowed to mod again. I don't have to name names. We know who those users are. When a game is essentially abandoned, users as a whole lose interest in mafia because they have the expectation that the game won't be finished. Its not good for the games. This is why I've setup a committee to make sure that games aren't abandoned again. I personally took over Alex's game and completed it when it failed, there will be others in the future.

Also regarding that we don't want this to occur again. Therefore I plan on having several pools of moderators wheras now we have two pools one for large and one for small.

Quickfire, Beginner Players, Small, Large, Beginner Mods

Players vote and rank the mods they've played for. If they haven't played with a mod they leave them unranked. At the end a ranking of the list is made and the bottom 25% are cut until the next vote.

I have bluesteel in charge of this job which will happen in the next week or two. Players with a higher rank can have the highest priority for signing up.

Once all mods have gone they voting will restart.

All mods will be ranked in one large pool and then be allowed to signup for each pool.

Mods may signup for multiple pools there is no restriction except once per pool until the list has expired.

For the beginner pool, 1 signup counts as a round of 3 games in the style I have setup. 1 roleless, 1 with roles no theme and roles announced with their being more roles announced than in the game, and 1 themed game.

Additionally A vote count coded into the Game Forum is another policy addition which would save a buttload of work for the moderators and make the game more accurate and more pleasant.

askbob
Optional Curse Filter - This way people can stop being offended when people work around the filter or use words that the filter doesn't filter.

1. All curse words under my thread in the Debate.org forum under curse words should be added to the filter

2. The curse filter should be turned on by default

3. For members who are not logged in, the filter should be on so that search engines pick up the filtered words which would be in the style of XXXX.

4. Only logged in members can toggle these words on.

This is a benefit because it reduces the curse words picked up by search words, eliminates people who use symboled letters, add extra letters, add spaces and basically get around the curse filter anyway.

Makes people happier who enjoy cursing and reading cursewords.

askbob
Members deserve to see who has been banned and why. This would be simple enough to code and would be a great way to see why members were reported by members, why they were reported, and what actions were taken or the reasons for not taking those actions.

askbob
The big issues, some are vague, some need removed and are no longer relevant, and some need added to modernize the website. Pretty self explanatory on this one.

askbob
Subforums organizing games are nice because sometimes its difficult when playing to find past DP threads to refer to. Also it would reduce the number of threads in the games thread and would allow for other games to be more visible and more accessible. Also this would include the endgame and signup threads. Also all past games from the misc. forum would be moved and organized here. Furthermore a link would be on each subforum to get to the most recent day phase this way people wouldn't have to make two clicks to get to the day phase.

askbob
PM sorting is self explanatory. It's nicer way to organize who sent what and when. moderators can use it so when they title their game pms they can find all of them organized under the same starting name of the title of the game.

askbob
Also removing and adding someone helps in mafia game situations where a user has been removed from the game so the mod doesn't have to create a new pm.

askbob
same concept with the forums in the game thread also to prevent trolls who like to randomly post in a game they are not a part of or for members who have been lynched or killed so they can't post in an ongoing game.

askbob
Locking is the same concept but for ended DP threads so no extra posting occurs.

Stickying so that the most recent DP/endgame is at the top of the heap not that this will totally be necessary just nice and low priority.

askbob
The not all caps filter. In really no instance does it prevent people from using caps and an acronym has been formed by all the members to essentially get around this. by adding "nac" to the end of their sentence. It's stupid and only ticks people off rather than does something legitamately beneficial for the site.

askbob
The social media project has already been started (though weakly due to personal time constraints). A twitter, myspace, facebook have been created and a 2000 member debate facebook group has been invaded. Revleft was also hit up and will probably be revisited in the future. It's an effort to bring other debaters onto this site who are intelligent. They are out there and just haven't heard of Debate.org. It has a recognizable domain name, there is just not enough effort to recruit new members.

askbob
Aesthetic touch, just a personal choice I'd rather have less than more words and the My doesn't really add anything to the meaning of the term.

askbob
that said i'm up for changing that if people have a big problem with it.

askbob
The record attempts at most posts thread is basically a cry for a chat messaging system. It bumps better threads off the front page and is mainly used to spam the site. First I'd like a chat system coded onto the site and then have this forum removed.

askbob
ELO Rating system - pretty much everyone wants this and it will add more legitamacy to leaderboard which will hopefully make skilled debaters take on other skilled debaters in order to have more high quality debates on DDO.

askbob
Everyone has a diverse set of political idealogies, adding a text box as well as adding the ability to sort users based on political and economic philosophies is a great addition to the site for record keeping and for members to adequately express the deviations of their political and economic outlooks.

askbob
I think that explains every policy decision I have.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
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6/2/2011 2:43:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
innomen
How will my platform benefit the site:

To best answer that I would first like to point out areas of opportunity that I believe exist within the site.

- An active connection between our community and Juggle
- Retaining out best
- Attracting the best
- Maintaining a community that is diverse in character and thought.
- Protecting the integrity of our debates in both process and voting
- Developing and nurturing new debaters

Let's face it, our ideas can be great, but without the active engagement of Juggle, none of our technical changes that we so desire will be implemented. This will be top priority for me personally. I feel that I am uniquely qualified among this community to work on developing a direct working relationship with Juggle. My platform will largely rest on this relationship. I have already made some initial contacts, and have a pretty good relationship with Eric Castelli now.

The integrity of our site will be another area of concentration for my administration, again working closely with Juggle. I am assembling a team to review the current TOS and propose to both the community and to Juggle some changes that may be implemented to further our goal of eliminating vote bombers and members who are simply out to frustrate those of us who look at debate as a serious part of our lives.

Working with newbies is another task that I have already begun working on. I have someone that will be our Director of Newb Improvement and Development, who will identify and work with new debaters to the site. Some of his team will be working on just general introduction to the site and others will be helping with actual debate skills.

I have some ideas on reaching out to the general debate community via facebook, and would like to explore that with Juggle. In this effort I would make a particular pitch toward recruiting debaters who have interests that are outside of our norm. We need more people from the left, and personally I'd like to see more of an international flavor here. I have ideas on both of those goals.

I sound like a broken record about this whole diversity of thought and character, I know I know. However, I have seen what happens to a site when everyone is the same, and I have seen a trend here. I know that there is an ebb and flow to a site like this, but I really would like to change our character a bit. I would like to do this by establishing some relationships with other sites. I would have some on my team who would work to identify and begin some relationship building so that we can even work toward the inter-site debates. We tried this with YickYak, and it failed, but not because it was a bad idea, but because YickYak was a poor choice. I'd like to work on that again, but do a bit more research on where we start, and how we proceed with the debates.

I would also like to keep the site dynamic in general, keep it innovative in what we do. I would like to see a tiered tournament, where there are the best debating with the best, and those who are looking to be best are learning from each other.

Although technical changes to the site will be welcome in making things work as we would like them to work; I don't think the site actually suffers greatly from our lack of functionality. Again, these are not things that we should ever ignore, on the contrary, we need to keep this site as flexible and as responsive to our expectations as possible, and as Juggle will help us with. However, I also think that the overall membership needs to change a bit in complexion. We want debates that are challenging as well as interesting, and we can only do that by attracting and retaining the best from different points of view. I would like my Vice President PCP to help in retention, along with some of our more seasoned members, and work with Juggle in attracting more of the diverse membership through the internet.

I would like to also say that any of Askbob's suggestions would be fully welcomed and supported by my administration, and i would provide him any help in implementing some of his more innovative ideas. There is no great hostility toward his platform, not at all; we both have a desire to improve the site, and working with each other is preferable to working against each other.

innomen
Askbob, would you please further develop your transparency for banning. Is not a violation of the TOS sufficient? Would you like to see who reported whom? What is the purpose for this particular point? Have you seen abuse in the banning of people?

askbob
In rebuttal Innomen has absolutely no platform. Nothing original or insightful. Most of which is pure bullcrap. This is a bid for DDO presidency, not the Miss DDO pagent. The only thing the users can do is alert juggle of our wants, our perceived priority for those wants and make it as easy to read as possible. If juggle wants to make no changes to the website, then really there is nothing we can do. We can present why those changes would be in their best interest and do it in the best possible manner, but in terms of policy one person isn't going to get it accomplished more easily than the other.

The difference between innomen's policy and mine is that I have a policy and a team of members who have the push to keep adding to that list, and enact the policies we can do which is Mafia policy and advertising to recruit members who are interested in debating.

While innomen has "some ideas" I have "some realities" of things I've done along with socialpinko to get the word out about debate.org.

askbob
In terms of banning, I'm leaving that up to the moderators, it's their site. I just think it would be beneficial to allow members to see who was banned and for what reason they were banned. Also to see who was reported.

askbob
Additionally while I'm thinking about it, another page for user profiles would be to see who they voted on along with their RFD. Also the ability to report an RFD.

This will take care of votebombers so we can see where the damage is once we've identified one.

innomen
Actually the question was how would it benefit the site, not what the platform was, this was already covered. Also limited to 2-3 minutes, not some voluminous rant. I believe i fulfilled both of these requests.

askbob
I really don't think anyone who reads what I wrote will believe it to be a rant. Also the explanation is voluminous because my policy is voluminous. It has substinance and therefore requires a substantial response.

innomen
As president, how would you personally work with Juggle, since they won't even talk to you? Since so much of what you propose requires the cooperation of Juggle, and you are unable to form a working relationship with them, do you intend on having to work through someone that can develop this relationship? Do you feel there is someone on your team better qualified to establish a working relationship with Juggle than I am?

innomen
Most of what you propose will never be accomplished because of your relationship with Juggle. Wiki is fine, although i am unsure of the actual traffic you get there, but you don't need to be president for that.

innomen
[FYI, as per usual, my shut down time is 6:30 pm EST.]
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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6/2/2011 2:43:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I heard that Innoman and Askbob unanimously decided that a vote for Cosmic Alfonzo is really what is in the best interests of the DDO community.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ore_Ele
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6/2/2011 2:44:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
askbob
Posting a list does not require cooperation. My policy is extremely clear with the only exception being pieces of Roys tournament which would be more readily discussed in the forum he created until the discrepancies are ironed out. After that it should be simple enough to implement, but if Julia has questions regarding and instance, I'll direct her to Roy.

I'm not going to be flying out to Juggle's headquarters to code the website. Also Juggle isn't holding my hand through the advertising or mafia game changes.

If they have a question about a particular part, I'll clarify further, although I think the explanations I gave of each one is exceedingly clear from a coding perspective and from a site-benefit perspective.

askbob
Juggle is not Phil, they tend to respect good ideas regardless of the source. I haven't noticed one instance of your magical coopeation powers yielding better results over someone else with the exact same idea.

askbob
Would you care to explain why you think Juggle will ignore my ideas on the basis that "they don't like yew"?

innomen
Let's be clear, Roy has not made any commitment to you, in fact he told me explicitly that he has no connection at all with you, and he and i have had discussions on both bug reports and tournaments, so there is nothing about that which you own.

I think that the one of the primary functions of the Presidency is working with Juggle, and establishing an active connection between the membership and the administrators of Juggle, in this you fail. In this i excel.

A great deal of which i propose, and you as well does depend on the cooperation of Juggle, not all of course, but pretty much any technical change to the site, and constant communication of the state of the site from a members perspective.

innomen
By your own words you have said you would be working through someone else in dealing with Juggle, in fact you even mentioned my name as someone who could speak for you because of your inability, and unlikely prospect of forming a working relationship with them.

innomen
Why would you say this if you didn't recognize the problem?

askbob
The only connection I have with Roy is that I respect him as one of the members who actually does something. For that reason I chose him to be recognized on my administration. My recognization of him on my party is an attempt to honor him for what he does. The same goes with OreEle. I believe that members who do something to benefit DDO should be rewarded with recognition for their service. I am by no means taking credit for what he has done. That's not how my party is structured. It's for members who care about the site and are actively doing something to better it.

You have given absolutely no answer to my question nor presented any meaningful way in which you would need to be held in high esteem. Good ideas are recognized on their merit, not on the username of the person posting them.

Of course the policy depends upon Juggle. It depends upon them to enact it. It depends upon me to organize it and present it in an easy to read manner. It's not as if they are doing me some personal favor by coding it. It's to satisfy their userbase which you stated agrees and desires the policy.

You have no policy.

askbob
Previously, I had the incorrect perception that other users had better and more effective lines of communication with the owners. They don't.

innomen
Well the implication is that Roy is part of your party, and that couldn't be further from the truth, and we all recognize Roy for his ability, and what he can bring to the site, that's why i had the conversation with him that i did in which his efforts would be the same under my administration as it would under you. Same with OreEle, he made it very clear that he would work with both, and is completely neutral.

Your reputation is well known, and it is known among the staff of Juggle, so don't be coy. You mentioned that you had requested to have the little problem with the profile bug fixed a week past, and as soon as i got to Eric from Juggle on my Gmail chat it was fixed. They won't respect you because of your past performance and the number of reports against you, and you will thus be unable to form a good working relationship with them.

innomen
I made my platform visible to everyone, and all of what i propose is very doable and i have already formed teams to work on them.

innomen
"Previously, I had the incorrect perception that other users had better and more effective lines of communication with the owners. They don't."

http://www.debate.org......

Yes they are very responsive to your requests.

askbob
In previous elections, there was no elected officials page. Now there is. Roy is part of my party, and it's not further from the truth. When/If I get elected, Roy will be featured under the elected officials page in order to recognize him for his contributions to the site. The same with OreEle. Of course Roy isn't going to stop reporting bugs or working to improve the site. I included both in my party so if I am elected, they'll be recognized.

Psht you are kidding yourself. I contacted Julia via PM who happened to be away on vacation. You're deluding yourself if you think that Eric would have ignored the same problem if I reported.

You're creating this entire hoax that Juggle would ignore good ideas based on where they came from. You're clearly doing it because you have no beneficial ideas for the site, aren't against mine for any reason, and have no track record of doing anything. I can point to all kinds of things that I've done to benefit the site. What of substance have you ever done?

Really if you want to talk about nurturing beginners, I've wrote an article in the cookbook as well as coded the fans site, as well as the wiki, as well started beginner mafia games which have greatly increased forum participation and made active users out of many.

What have you actually done besides post a welcome message in the DDO forum?

askbob
It seems to me like your "good relationship" with the moderators and minimal activity seems to be centered around election time.

askbob
Oh wait no you didn't even post the welcome message, that was OreEle

askbob
Also that wasn't me trying to be sarcastic, I legitly thought you posted it. My mistake.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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6/2/2011 2:45:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
innomen
It really, it isn't a big secret that you've been reported repeatedly to Juggle. Do you deny that your behavior with members hasn't caught the attention of Juggle? You can pretend that all is hunky dory with you and Juggle, and that you actually have the abilty to form a working relationship with Juggle, but i will let the readers of this debate decide how true that is. Hoax? Please, as i said, it was your own words where you explain all the people you will need to speak for you that says how much of a hoax it was. As i said, you posted that i would be one of the people to speak for you, do you deny that? Come on, your a bright guy, and you have good ideasm, but i think you're out of your league in any sort of relationship building with the admins of Juggle.

The fact that you would go to Julia on a problem with the profiles is a little odd by itself, if you knew that eric was the guy, as i knew, why didn't you reach out to him?

I don't deny you have brought value to the site, and i would like you to continue doing that, but you have also done a lot agains the site too. What you have done for the site, no one really needs to say, because you do a pretty good job of it all the time.

I ran for president, and made a good showing of it. It was a lot of fun and i think everyone enjoyed that election far more than this one. I also tried the first inter-site debate with YickYak, things didn't go perfectly, i admit, but it was a start toward something that we should do more of. There is much i do with individual members behind the scenes, and i do not seek any sort of recognition for that. I would like to think that i have brought something to the site, otherwise i wouldn't have received so many PM's urging me to run against you.

innomen
I am not president now, and actually respect the current president a great deal. I feel it somewhat inappropriate to intiate any of my measures without any confirmation of the members.

You're just flat wrong on my contact with eric. He asked me to contact him when there were problems and he urged me to take his gmail account name so we could chat. He sought me out, although we don't chat often, his name is always there on my gmail as a chat option. You?

askbob
So you admit you have absolutely nothing substantial in your policy and are essentially an askbob vote. I'll let the readers decide if they want someone who creates ideas and actively goes around enforcing them or someone who just admitted he was an anti-askbob vote. I'm really fine with either. My administration will continue running and doing our best to improve the site.

So the only thing you have done is a failed inter-site debate with YickYak. I remember that, and there was value in that. Regardless although a profitable venture, it required little effort on your part and was a one-time deal.

If the only reason you're running is for an anti-askbob vote then you shouldn't be in this election. If you sincerely believe you deserve to be recognized for no effort over me, I'm fine with that. I really don't need recognition for what I've done and will continue doing it regardless of the result.

I will accomplish my policy.

I suppose it will be up to the voters to decide on whether they want to recognize a do-nothing president who admitted he was an anti-askbob vote or someone who does something to better the site.

I've never broken the TOS of this site and I believe despite the bullcrap that innomen is spewing about Juggle ignoring my messages which is complete crap, Juggle wil recognize good ideas for good ideas. I don't think the role of the DDO president is to call the CEO every day and ask him how his day went. It's to be recognized for your efforts in bettering the site and present the site's ideas for improvement in an easy to read fashion.

askbob
I have his house address and cell number.

OreEle
I'm going to interject here and try to get this moving along (even though many of the questions were answered in that conversation).

This question, from anonymous, is directed to Askbob (so Askbob can answer, then Innomen rebuttals, then Askbob defends).

Askbob, if different members are running reports, reporting bugs, and communicating with the admin, what is the need for you to be in the middle of that process?

askbob
1. What reports are they referring to? If internal reports within my admin, then I'm not really in the middle of it. I just compile multiple reports into one report so the mod doesn't have to open 7 different word docs, also I take care of spelling and formatting and I have my own report on the progress of the fans site. Also I fill in for members who are too busy at the time to do their report. The point of the reporting system is to turn 100s of pms into one pm with the moderator and turn hundreds of comments into one organized report that's easy to read and easy to follow.

I don't know what other reports they could be referring to besides internal

askbob
Currently we have members posting in forums messages, emails ,etc. I want one line communication to juggle with the peritnent info. With Roy in charge of bug reports after being elected both him, I and other members who want to help out roy will direct all bugs found to roy. Either roy or I will type up a summarized report of the bugs and send one report to the mods.

OreEle
I believe those are the reports that the person was talking about.

innomen
what you have done? YOu have driven more people away from this site than anyone else. You have disregarded any common decency toward users and have chased away rather than worked with people that you personally have found objectionable. You have taken it upon yourself to make this your personal playground, and your behavior is anything but constructive on an individual basis. You have only helped those who have conformed to you, and follow you. YOu have precipitated a site that continues to lose heterogeneity and is ever becoming an ancap site. You have set a tone that has turned off more than encouraged many. There have been more threads about you personally than anyone else, it seems a cloud of drama surrounds you constantly.

You've done a lot for the site, but you've done a lot against the site, and I believe your intentions are typically good. However, the bad you have done outweighs your good, and the fear everyone who opposes you is that you will be further emboldened in your bad behavior, and you will have a mandate for a site full of bad behavior.

How many people have left the site as a result of you, how many have as a result of me? How many will leave if you are president? How many will leave if I am president? It is really sad that this election is more about you and your character, but that is the truth isn't it?

I guess we disagree in what we think the role of the president is. I have made it clear that the president is a conduit between the members and the owners, and I feel I am far better at holding this position than you. I further believe that the president is a representative of what the site overall is about. We aren't about posting pics of Pm's or calling someone in real life to harass, at least that's not who we would want to represent the site. The president should be innovative and be able to help facilitate and entertain good ideas from all members, not a select few of who might be in your good favor.

I don't doubt that some of your "policy" will gain some traction, and some of them I would help you if you needed or wanted my help. But...I also think the bulk of your ideas will go no where.

innomen
I apologize for being out of order with that last post, i was writing a response while you guys were PMing back and forth.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
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6/2/2011 2:45:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
askbob
I am not an ancap so I don't knwo what you're talking about having people conform to me. I'm a deist and argumentively a Christian. Im a keynesian so I don't know what bullcrap you're trying to pull with "everyone confromed to you". I'm also against abortion.

I've chased away freaking idiots who did nothing but make this site a miserable experience for others. Name one member who has left the site because of me who was an asset.

A cloud of drama occuring on the site is better than nothing occuring on the site. It's a debate site, expect there to be drama for petes sake.

I hope I'll continue to keep the trolls at bay who spam and votebomb our site. I think the real question is: What have you done to keep away multi-accounters, votebombers, spammers, etc. Oh that's right you've done nothing. I'm damn proud of my track record of keeping this site clean. I wouldnt' have to do it if Juggle would do IP scans, be proactive about deleting debates.

Also I'd say more than 80% of the members who I've "chased away" were from being reported and banned. I don't broadcast it every time, but I'm responsible for the deletion of at least 50 debates if not more and the banning of at least 8 spammers/multiaccounters.

I'm proud of what I've done for the site and I don't believe I've done any bad at all. I encourage you to pick out one instance of it.

You thinking that my ideas will go nowhere is the crux of your platform. You have no ideas to go anywhere, so the best you can do is bring up my record which is spotless and say my policy will "go nowhere"

If my policy goes nowhere it won't be through any fault of mine but a lack of inaction of juggles part, and to their own detriment. In terms of help, I want the entire sites help. You're welcome to sign up for a committee in the thread and I'll add you to the pm system.

innomen
I'll have to pick this up in the morning. As per my post re time limitations, i'll pick this up in the morning.

askbob
sounds good to me, i have to do this thesis anyways lol but it was a good way to break up the time

innomen
Have a good night.

innomen
Okay, one last shot at this: You claim to chase away "freaking idiots", and yet no one asked you to. Why do you feel entitled to make the determination of who is to stay and who should be chased out? I think this is where people are concerned about you becoming president. Your over eager desire to purge the site of what you deem undesirable, with methods of public humiliation and degradation is what many are concerned with. By being made president, this little defect of character of yours, where you know no restraint of personal conduct less that of being banned, will be further indulged. By the way, what's so bad with having members that are a little bit quirky, and have a different voice here? Is Lionheart really so bad that he needs to be pushed off? Ever try a different tactic of encouragement and nurturing along some of our members who are starting out? I look at a member like Vardas who, when he first came wasn't able to find a place for himself, but with the occasional good word and helpful encouragement he has really come a long way with his debates (I take no credit for his betterment). He could have easily have been one of your victims. I don't know the source of your feud with C_N in the day, but your actions are somewhat legendary. However, why did you feel compelled to look into his personal information in order to publicly humiliate him? Did you deem him a bad member too?

You believe your presence here is a net benefit, but there are many who would disagree, and many more who think that having you made president would be even more costly to the site. Let's remember you were not here for a considerable amount of time when you were banned, and the site was actually quite good then in many respects better. I don't necessarily blame you for the general direction of the site since that time but this odd illusion that you have improved things since you have come back is misplaced. I asked before, how many would leave if you were to become president? How many would leave if i were to become president?

You say that its a debate site and there will be drama in a debate site, but I think that the point of a debate site is to minimize drama, and rely on reason and persuasion. Don't get me wrong, occasional drama will keep the site a bit colorful, but for you it is not occasional.

I will conclude in saying that the members of the site who support me do not wish to see it represented by someone who disregards common decency and has a habit of alienating the odd member who doesn't meet with your personal expectation of who should comprise the site.

I take no particular joy in writing this post, not at all, as it goes contrary to the values that I try to live by. However, it seems that it was unavoidable in summing up the essence of this election. I bear you no ill will, actually quite the contrary.

It is a holiday weekend, so I won't be on so much, but I wish you well, and hope you enjoy the day.

askbob
1. My restraint doesn't begin by being banned. I think anyone who knows my track record knows that banning does not stop me.

2. You made the inference that I "pushed off" Lionheart which is hilarious for two reasons. A. He's currently on the site and active B. I did absolutely nothing to push him off. The PM records are publicly available for anyone who wants to see the extent of my communication. I made fun of him by creating demotes with his quotes. I didn't write the quotes. Many other members also reacted with laughter at his idiocy. Even most of the members within your own party.

3. I don't know why you are mentioning vardas as I never did anything to him?

4. I never found any C_N's personal information. He willingly gave me his picture. In a PM under my johngris account. If you want I can show you, but it will take some time to let Julia unban that account so i can download the PMs. Also C_N never left because of me, I don't know why he left and I don't know why you're making inferences regarding him. C_N let himself get publicly humiliated. He was a 40 year old guy making sexual comments towards a 17-18 yo girl. I wasn't even the one to bring up that the actions were pedophilliac, that was Zetsubou.

"Let's remember you were not here for a considerable amount of time when you were banned, and the site was actually quite good then in many respects better. I don't necessarily blame you for the general direction of the site since that time but"

If you don't blame me then why even bring it up? Oh wait you're attempting to silently infer it but not outright say it because you have nothing of substance (similar to your entire platform) to back it up.

I honestly don't think anyone would leave if either of us became president. No one takes the election that seriously, and if they do then they probably should leave the site.

In terms of ill will, I bear you ill will because of your unfounded accusations and inability to name one good member who left the site because of me. You provide nothing of substance to help the site and criticize the people who do. Your entire policy is that you are not me. You say I have chased away so many people, yet when I ask you to name just one person who I chased away, you can't even do that.

I bear you ill will for teaming up with people like joshandr30 who made this site a virtual hell and chased away nearly half of its active members who have not come back since. I think personally more people would leave the site if was featured on the elected members page rather than me.

Besides YikYak, I can't think of anything you've done to better the site at all. As president I'm sure that will only continue.

OreEle
This question is directed to Innomen (also from an anonymous).

How can you represent the interests of the community if you don't do debates on a debating website?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
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6/2/2011 2:46:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
innomen
Well, I do debate. I don't debate in the same quantities as some of the other members, but I debate about once a month or so, depending on my availability. I am very proud of my debates, and put a lot of work into them, and I solicit critiques from some of the better debaters on the site to help me get better. I also judge my share of debates as well, and try and put comments into debates when I see the opportunity.

Although I don't believe a great volume of debating is necessary to represent the site, I can say with confidence that I understand the challenges that most debaters face, and I am very happy to put their suggestions to either the site itself, or the owners depending on the specifics of their request.

askbob
I myself consider the volume of ones debates to be a completely unimportant issue in representing the interests of the community. I have no rebuttal.

OreEle
Do either of you have any final comments or questions for each other before we close this debate and post it?

innomen
I think the contrasts of who we are and what we are about has been aptly illustrated here. At this point most of the qualified voters in this election already know what we represent. I don't have anything to add.

askbob
I represent a policy and someone who is intelligent enough to create and organize new and important features that improve the site, have proven dedicated to do multiple things without need of recognition, and plan on recognizing those who do something to benefit the site rather than joshandr30. Innomen is a do-nothing candidate and is essentially an anti-askbob vote.

askbob
He has also yet to name a single person who I drove away from this site who wasn't a spammer or votebomber. He has made several insinuations which have no factual backing behind them, and has ignored most of my questions posed at him. He also backwardly accused me of driving away CN when that is clearly not the case. He also accused me of invading CN's privacy which was also not the case. So if you want someone who will do nothing, promote joshandr30 on one of the front pages, make baseless accusations and then not back them up, and have someone who can only press the control c and the control p buttons to obtain his policy then fine. It won't stop me either way. Also mod contacted me today putting me in touch with a new coder recently hired to help DDO. I also am friends with him via twitter and facebook. (saw that he joined the linked in group the day he was hired and found him there).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
jharry
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6/2/2011 5:55:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
OreEle, would this be the appropriate thread to ask questions directly to the candidates? The debate was great but there are a few issues that need a little expansion.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Ore_Ele
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6/2/2011 5:56:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/2/2011 5:55:58 PM, jharry wrote:
OreEle, would this be the appropriate thread to ask questions directly to the candidates? The debate was great but there are a few issues that need a little expansion.

Go for it. I can't promise that they'll actually answer though.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
jharry
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6/2/2011 5:58:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/2/2011 5:56:34 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 6/2/2011 5:55:58 PM, jharry wrote:
OreEle, would this be the appropriate thread to ask questions directly to the candidates? The debate was great but there are a few issues that need a little expansion.

Go for it. I can't promise that they'll actually answer though.

Lol, I won't get my hopes up getting any straight answers out of askbob. But the questions still need to be asked.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
askbob
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6/2/2011 6:00:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/2/2011 5:58:59 PM, jharry wrote:
At 6/2/2011 5:56:34 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 6/2/2011 5:55:58 PM, jharry wrote:
OreEle, would this be the appropriate thread to ask questions directly to the candidates? The debate was great but there are a few issues that need a little expansion.

Go for it. I can't promise that they'll actually answer though.

Lol, I won't get my hopes up getting any straight answers out of askbob. But the questions still need to be asked.

lol I'd love to hear what questions come from you that haven't been asked or mentioned in 24 pages of text
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
jharry
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6/2/2011 6:11:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/2/2011 6:00:44 PM, askbob wrote:
At 6/2/2011 5:58:59 PM, jharry wrote:
At 6/2/2011 5:56:34 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 6/2/2011 5:55:58 PM, jharry wrote:
OreEle, would this be the appropriate thread to ask questions directly to the candidates? The debate was great but there are a few issues that need a little expansion.

Go for it. I can't promise that they'll actually answer though.

Lol, I won't get my hopes up getting any straight answers out of askbob. But the questions still need to be asked.

lol I'd love to hear what questions come from you that haven't been asked or mentioned in 24 pages of text

You have banned warned twice by juggle due to your behavior. And now you are making the claim that your on good terms with them now? Do you have any kind of evidence to support this? The owners of this site came out against your actions in this site, saying that your actions put this site in danger. Do you really expect anyone to believe you ate now on their good side?

You claim you are friends with the new coder, but this doesn't exactly constitute a good relationship with the owners.

Please expand on this issue.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
jharry
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6/2/2011 6:17:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Askbob, you claim you didn't violate C_N's privacy in the debate.

How did you get the picture again?

Did C_N really say "hey askbob, here is my picture".

Something about that doesn't sound right.

Actually I know the truth about the situation, you know I know the truth. The question now is are you prepared to tell the whole truth to DDO?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
askbob
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6/2/2011 6:18:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/2/2011 6:11:04 PM, jharry wrote:
You have banned warned twice by juggle due to your behavior.
Banned or warned? I was warned because none of my activities are/were against the TOS.

And now you are making the claim that your on good terms with them now?
I'm not claiming, I'm saying.

Do you have any kind of evidence to support this?
PM's with eric where I released the latest bugs

The owners of this site came out against your actions in this site, saying that your actions put this site in danger. Do you really expect anyone to believe you ate now on their good side?

I don't expect you to believe anything because you're an idiot.

I expect the rest of the site to believe me, because unlike you, i'm not a liar.

You claim you are friends with the new coder, but this doesn't exactly constitute a good relationship with the owners.

Are you suggesting that the new coder will be told not to code updates and correct bugs because they come from me? Please. Innomen had no response for this except for stupid implications which are clearly inaccurate. Similar to what you're doing.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
askbob
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6/2/2011 6:26:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/2/2011 6:17:14 PM, jharry wrote:
Askbob, you claim you didn't violate C_N's privacy in the debate.

How did you get the picture again?

Did C_N really say "hey askbob, here is my picture".

Yes I have the pm.

Something about that doesn't sound right.

What about it?

Actually I know the truth about the situation, you know I know the truth. The question now is are you prepared to tell the whole truth to DDO?

I'm pretty sure everyone knows the truth. He gave me his picture so I would stop posting Inserts picture because she apparently didn't want her picture shown which no longer seems to be some large problem with her as she posts it currently. I got the picture because we were both on the DDO facebook group. She posted her screenname and thus you could see her public facebook profile that she thought she had private. She apologized later for accusing me of creating a fake facebook profile because her privacy settings were public.

So I don't understand what privacy violation you're even hinting of.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
jharry
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6/2/2011 6:31:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/2/2011 6:18:02 PM, askbob wrote:
At 6/2/2011 6:11:04 PM, jharry wrote:
You have banned warned twice by juggle due to your behavior.
Banned or warned? I was warned because none of my activities are/were against the TOS.

Actually you were warned. For actually doing something that could have an effect in the site, per the owners. Not a member but the owners. I agree with the warning, it made clear that you were totally wrong about displaying private info. You were and are wrong. You ridiculed anyone that said you are wrong about it. You defied pleas from the community to stop. You ignored and degraded these members.

Do you really think the people of this site want someone like that representing them to juggle?


And now you are making the claim that your on good terms with them now?
I'm not claiming, I'm saying.

You have said a lot lately. One thing you said was there is nothing wring with harassing members by displaying there public info. You were proven dead wrong about that. Your claims were wrong then, why would you expect anyone to believe you now?

Do you have any kind of evidence to support this?
PM's with eric where I released the latest bugs

You release the bugs? What happened to Roy? And your evidence is sending a pm to Eric? What did he thank you?

The owners of this site came out against your actions in this site, saying that your actions put this site in danger. Do you really expect anyone to believe you ate now on their good side?

I don't expect you to believe anything because you're an idiot.

You can call me names all you want. But you still haven't answers many questions.

I expect the rest of the site to believe me, because unlike you, i'm not a liar.

Are you sure they trust and believe you?

You claim you are friends with the new coder, but this doesn't exactly constitute a good relationship with the owners.

Are you suggesting that the new coder will be told not to code updates and correct bugs because they come from me? Please. Innomen had no response for this except for stupid implications which are clearly inaccurate. Similar to what you're doing.

No, the coder will implement what the owners want. I'm questioning your relationship with the owners.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
jharry
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6/2/2011 6:38:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/2/2011 6:26:19 PM, askbob wrote:
At 6/2/2011 6:17:14 PM, jharry wrote:
Askbob, you claim you didn't violate C_N's privacy in the debate.

How did you get the picture again?

Did C_N really say "hey askbob, here is my picture".

Yes I have the pm.

Something about that doesn't sound right.

What about it?

Actually I know the truth about the situation, you know I know the truth. The question now is are you prepared to tell the whole truth to DDO?

I'm pretty sure everyone knows the truth. He gave me his picture so I would stop posting Inserts picture because she apparently didn't want her picture shown which no longer seems to be some large problem with her as she posts it currently. I got the picture because we were both on the DDO facebook group. She posted her screenname and thus you could see her public facebook profile that she thought she had private. She apologized later for accusing me of creating a fake facebook profile because her privacy settings were public.

So I don't understand what privacy violation you're even hinting of.

Wait a minute. He gave you his picture so you would stop harassing and bullying insert? He offered or you asked for it?

Basiclly you blackmailed C_N through coercion so you could get his picture.

What did you do with his picture after he gave you payment so you would stop terrorizing insert?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
jharry
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6/2/2011 6:47:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm sure the time is coming when you will call me all sorts if names attempting to degrade and ridicule me. Or you will give up like you have done time and time again.

But in the end you will only leave so many questions unanswered. And this is a reason why no one should even consider you for President. You are weak and totally rely on attacks and slander.

I have attempted to keep our conversations civil. I have complimented your qualities. I've praised your intellect and abilities many times. You have offered nothing but an utterly disgusting display of hatred and contempt. This is your policy for dealing with everyone here. From the site owners to the newest member.

I can't imagine one soul on DDO that holds one ounce of ill will towards innomen. Except you of course. That honestly says a lot about innomen and even more about you.

You have no place representing DDO to anyone.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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6/2/2011 6:49:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/2/2011 6:31:06 PM, jharry wrote:
At 6/2/2011 6:18:02 PM, askbob wrote:
At 6/2/2011 6:11:04 PM, jharry wrote:
You have banned warned twice by juggle due to your behavior.
Banned or warned? I was warned because none of my activities are/were against the TOS.

Actually you were warned. For actually doing something that could have an effect in the site, per the owners.
Actually?

Not a member but the owners. I agree with the warning, it made clear that you were totally wrong about displaying private info. You were and are wrong. You ridiculed anyone that said you are wrong about it. You defied pleas from the community to stop. You ignored and degraded these members.

You mean the member who were votebombing and spamming the site?

Do you really think the people of this site want someone like that representing them to juggle?

I really don't think much credence is given to you to presume to speak for the site joshandr30.



And now you are making the claim that your on good terms with them now?
I'm not claiming, I'm saying.

You have said a lot lately. One thing you said was there is nothing wring with harassing members by displaying there public info. You were proven dead wrong about that. Your claims were wrong then, why would you expect anyone to believe you now?

I wasn't proven wrong about that. There is nothing wrong with displaying public information.


Do you have any kind of evidence to support this?
PM's with eric where I released the latest bugs

You release the bugs? What happened to Roy? And your evidence is sending a pm to Eric? What did he thank you?
Actually he did thank me

I am working with the team here on these items and either I will follow up, or Zack (new to the team) or Julia. If you don't hear back from someone by Monday, please ping me back.

Thanks,
Eric


The owners of this site came out against your actions in this site, saying that your actions put this site in danger. Do you really expect anyone to believe you ate now on their good side?

I don't expect you to believe anything because you're an idiot.

You can call me names all you want. But you still haven't answers many questions.

Its not a name but a state of being

I expect the rest of the site to believe me, because unlike you, i'm not a liar.

Are you sure they trust and believe you?

Yes

You claim you are friends with the new coder, but this doesn't exactly constitute a good relationship with the owners.

Are you suggesting that the new coder will be told not to code updates and correct bugs because they come from me? Please. Innomen had no response for this except for stupid implications which are clearly inaccurate. Similar to what you're doing.

No, the coder will implement what the owners want. I'm questioning your relationship with the owners.

So then are you questioning that the owners do not want to improve their site and fix bugs?
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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6/2/2011 6:50:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/2/2011 6:38:17 PM, jharry wrote:
Wait a minute. He gave you his picture so you would stop harassing and bullying insert? He offered or you asked for it?

If you want to define harassing and bullying as posting inserts very public facebook picture then sure.

Basiclly you blackmailed C_N through coercion so you could get his picture.

He offered I never asked.

What did you do with his picture after he gave you payment so you would stop terrorizing insert?

Made lulz
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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6/2/2011 6:56:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/2/2011 6:47:19 PM, jharry wrote:
I'm sure the time is coming when you will call me all sorts if names attempting to degrade and ridicule me. Or you will give up like you have done time and time again.

I don't believe I've ever given up, just realized that largely your not worth my time.

But in the end you will only leave so many questions unanswered.
I think that's the last thing I've done anyone who reads the debate can see the opposite.

And this is a reason why no one should even consider you for President. You are weak and totally rely on attacks and slander.

No that's you and more recently innomen.

I have attempted to keep our conversations civil.
That's a joke

I have complimented your qualities. I've praised your intellect and abilities many times.
patronizing is not complimenting

You have offered nothing but an utterly disgusting display of hatred and contempt. This is your policy for dealing with everyone here. From the site owners to the newest member.

I offer contempt for idiots like yourself josh.

I can't imagine one soul on DDO that holds one ounce of ill will towards innomen. Except you of course. That honestly says a lot about innomen and even more about you.

Anyone who reads the debate can see the ill will is held because he is even communicating with you and for making false accusations without any substance.

You have no place representing DDO to anyone.
Again you're one to presume to speak for DDO.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
jharry
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6/2/2011 7:08:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/2/2011 6:49:27 PM, askbob wrote:
At 6/2/2011 6:31:06 PM, jharry wrote:
At 6/2/2011 6:18:02 PM, askbob wrote:
At 6/2/2011 6:11:04 PM, jharry wrote:
You have banned warned twice by juggle due to your behavior.
Banned or warned? I was warned because none of my activities are/were against the TOS.

Actually you were warned. For actually doing something that could have an effect in the site, per the owners.
Actually?

Yep. Your actions were deemed as a direct threat towards this site. Nit by members but the owners. Not messing up a few debates, you out the site in danger according to the owners of this site.


Not a member but the owners. I agree with the warning, it made clear that you were totally wrong about displaying private info. You were and are wrong. You ridiculed anyone that said you are wrong about it. You defied pleas from the community to stop. You ignored and degraded these members.

You mean the member who were votebombing and spamming the site?

You were warned that your behavior will not be tolerated. By the owners. The owners said they will deal with spammers and votebombers. Your actions are not only useless but are no better then the people you attack. You will be banned for just being you askbob.

Do you really think the people of this site want someone like that representing them to juggle?

I really don't think much credence is given to you to presume to speak for the site joshandr30.

How long will you keep bringing up the past? No one cares about that, that was long ago and no longer an issue. It only shows that you can't face what you are and what your going. Is that all you have to talk about?



And now you are making the claim that your on good terms with them now?
I'm not claiming, I'm saying.

You have said a lot lately. One thing you said was there is nothing wring with harassing members by displaying there public info. You were proven dead wrong about that. Your claims were wrong then, why would you expect anyone to believe you now?

I wasn't proven wrong about that. There is nothing wrong with displaying public information.

Yes you were. The owners said you were wrong. If you werent proven wrong then display my info right here right now. You don't because you are wrong in accordance to the rules of this site. You said you have my info, I'm calling you a liar.


Do you have any kind of evidence to support this?
PM's with eric where I released the latest bugs

You release the bugs? What happened to Roy? And your evidence is sending a pm to Eric? What did he thank you?
Actually he did thank me

I am working with the team here on these items and either I will follow up, or Zack (new to the team) or Julia. If you don't hear back from someone by Monday, please ping me back.

Wow!!!! Did you drink a cold one with him last night too? Come on, he would have thanked anyone for giving him some bugs to work on. He thanked innomen for contacting him about some site issues. He would respond to any one like that. Actually he thanked me too when there were some problems with pm.

Like the pms we had about that? Oh yeah, would you like to tell DDO about some if the things we talked about? You can tell them can't you? Or maybe the emails? I love the hate you have for me, even though there is so much about us many people don't know. Would you like to share that with DDO?


Thanks,
Eric


The owners of this site came out against your actions in this site, saying that your actions put this site in danger. Do you really expect anyone to believe you ate now on their good side?

I don't expect you to believe anything because you're an idiot.

You can call me names all you want. But you still haven't answers many questions.

Its not a name but a state of being

I expect the rest of the site to believe me, because unlike you, i'm not a liar.

Are you sure they trust and believe you?

Yes

K. I guess that will be sorted out June 12th.

You claim you are friends with the new coder, but this doesn't exactly constitute a good relationship with the owners.

Are you suggesting that the new coder will be told not to code updates and correct bugs because they come from me? Please. Innomen had no response for this except for stupid implications which are clearly inaccurate. Similar to what you're doing.

No, the coder will implement what the owners want. I'm questioning your relationship with the owners.

So then are you questioning that the owners do not want to improve their site and fix bugs?

Of course they do. But if they are reading the forums they will see the objections to you. This could effect many of your policies even getting close to getting pushed through.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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6/2/2011 7:17:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
askbob; given the Juggle team has voiced their disapproval of you publicly revealing the personal information of other members, will you stop doing it?
As you well know, I am one of your biggest supporters and can and have verified your dedication to the improvement of the site, but this one issue hurts your public image more than anything. I know you don't care, nor do I think you should care but since this election is essentially a popularity contest it is an important issue.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
jharry
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6/2/2011 7:19:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/2/2011 6:56:10 PM, askbob wrote:
At 6/2/2011 6:47:19 PM, jharry wrote:
I'm sure the time is coming when you will call me all sorts if names attempting to degrade and ridicule me. Or you will give up like you have done time and time again.

I don't believe I've ever given up, just realized that largely your not worth my time.

That's what you say when you know you can't continue.

But in the end you will only leave so many questions unanswered.
I think that's the last thing I've done anyone who reads the debate can see the opposite.

There are many more questions. And done if the answes need expanded on.

And this is a reason why no one should even consider you for President. You are weak and totally rely on attacks and slander.

No that's you and more recently innomen.

You attack anyone that disagrees with you. That us all you do.

I have attempted to keep our conversations civil.
That's a joke

How is that? Or is that your final answer? Or are you above being questioned about your actions?

I have complimented your qualities. I've praised your intellect and abilities many times.
patronizing is not complimenting

Every compliment has been in complete honesty. There are many conversations where I have defended you, mostly when you first returned.

You have offered nothing but an utterly disgusting display of hatred and contempt. This is your policy for dealing with everyone here. From the site owners to the newest member.

I offer contempt for idiots like yourself josh.

You offer contempt to any one you disagrees with you. Oh yeah, anyone that disagrees with you is an idiot. I forgot.

I can't imagine one soul on DDO that holds one ounce of ill will towards innomen. Except you of course. That honestly says a lot about innomen and even more about you.

Anyone who reads the debate can see the ill will is held because he is even communicating with you and for making false accusations without any substance.

You accuse people of all types if things. You may need to look in the mirror.

So just communicating with me is an offense? Do all if our emails snd pms are ok, but not innomen? You are a hypocrite and a liar.

You have no place representing DDO to anyone.
Again you're one to presume to speak for DDO.

I'm not the one running for President of DDO, you are. And you need to undersand you can't presume to speak for DDO either.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
askbob
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6/2/2011 7:20:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/2/2011 7:08:06 PM, jharry wrote:
At 6/2/2011 6:49:27 PM, askbob wrote:
At 6/2/2011 6:31:06 PM, jharry wrote:
Do you really think the people of this site want someone like that representing them to juggle?

I really don't think much credence is given to you to presume to speak for the site joshandr30.

How long will you keep bringing up the past? No one cares about that

Look who's talking. You're attempting to call me out as hurting the site when you're the biggest scum to ever exist. You chased away half the active members by making this site virtual hell for them. How dare you presume to speak for DDO.

I wasn't proven wrong about that. There is nothing wrong with displaying public information.

Yes you were. The owners said you were wrong. If you weren't proven wrong then display my info right here right now. You don't because you are wrong in accordance to the rules of this site.

That's where you are incorrect. My behavior is not and was not against rules. The owners were covering their asss. It's not wrong to use google nor will it ever be.


Do you have any kind of evidence to support this?
PM's with eric where I released the latest bugs

You release the bugs? What happened to Roy? And your evidence is sending a pm to Eric? What did he thank you?
Actually he did thank me

I am working with the team here on these items and either I will follow up, or Zack (new to the team) or Julia. If you don't hear back from someone by Monday, please ping me back.

Wow!!!! Did you drink a cold one with him last night too? Come on, he would have thanked anyone for giving him some bugs to work on.

You're the one who asked if he thanked me dumbasss, i'm just the one answering.

Like the pms we had about that? Oh yeah, would you like to tell DDO about some if the things we talked about? You can tell them can't you? Or maybe the emails? I love the hate you have for me, even though there is so much about us many people don't know. Would you like to share that with DDO?

All of DDO were sent those emails and PMs via JBlake they were feeding me questions to ask you lol.

You claim you are friends with the new coder, but this doesn't exactly constitute a good relationship with the owners.

Are you suggesting that the new coder will be told not to code updates and correct bugs because they come from me? Please. Innomen had no response for this except for stupid implications which are clearly inaccurate. Similar to what you're doing.

No, the coder will implement what the owners want. I'm questioning your relationship with the owners.

So then are you questioning that the owners do not want to improve their site and fix bugs?

Of course they do. But if they are reading the forums they will see the objections to you. This could effect many of your policies even getting close to getting pushed through.

If they read the forums they'll see that innomen has absolutely no objections to my policies nor bug fixing.

That's why he didn't challenge any of my policies and said he agreed with all of them.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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6/2/2011 7:21:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/2/2011 7:17:37 PM, tvellalott wrote:
askbob; given the Juggle team has voiced their disapproval of you publicly revealing the personal information of other members, will you stop doing it?

I'll stop doing it in accordance with Juggle standards but new members should know that pms exist and are not against the rules.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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6/2/2011 7:22:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/2/2011 7:21:35 PM, askbob wrote:
At 6/2/2011 7:17:37 PM, tvellalott wrote:
askbob; given the Juggle team has voiced their disapproval of you publicly revealing the personal information of other members, will you stop doing it?

I'll stop doing it in accordance with Juggle standards but new members should know that pms exist and are not against the rules.

Excellent.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...