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Forfeits

Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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6/10/2011 9:39:14 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
If an opponent forfeits in the last round should they get an automatic loss?

If an opponent forfeits in any round should they get an automatic loss?

Should these be hard coded so no voting is necessary?

Note i am speaking of hard forfeits where the opponent does not even login to post.
Brian314
Posts: 47
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6/10/2011 9:51:28 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 9:39:14 AM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
If an opponent forfeits in the last round should they get an automatic loss?

If an opponent forfeits in any round should they get an automatic loss?

Should these be hard coded so no voting is necessary?

Note i am speaking of hard forfeits where the opponent does not even login to post.

My opinion:

If they forfeit in the last round, they should get an automatic loss. If they forfeit in any other round, if it's only once, I think they should be given the chance to come back, even though voters will probably vote against them for conduct. It should only be hard coded if they either forfeit in two or more rounds or forfeit in the last round.
Brainmaster
Posts: 1,603
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6/10/2011 9:52:10 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 9:39:14 AM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
If an opponent forfeits in the last round should they get an automatic loss?

If an opponent forfeits in any round should they get an automatic loss?

Should these be hard coded so no voting is necessary?

Note i am speaking of hard forfeits where the opponent does not even login to post.

I was gonna post this lol...

Agree with brian314
Kfc.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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6/10/2011 9:55:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
How would you code if both people forfeited? I think voters should just take that into cinsideration.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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6/10/2011 10:04:20 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 9:55:30 AM, OreEle wrote:
How would you code if both people forfeited? I think voters should just take that into cinsideration.

Double loss.
Brian314
Posts: 47
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6/10/2011 10:06:37 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 9:55:30 AM, OreEle wrote:
How would you code if both people forfeited? I think voters should just take that into cinsideration.

The automatic loss, in my opinion, would only be activated by a forfeit of the last round or more than one round. If both people did one or both of these things, then the debate should result in a tie.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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6/10/2011 10:21:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 10:06:37 AM, Brian314 wrote:
At 6/10/2011 9:55:30 AM, OreEle wrote:
How would you code if both people forfeited? I think voters should just take that into cinsideration.

The automatic loss, in my opinion, would only be activated by a forfeit of the last round or more than one round. If both people did one or both of these things, then the debate should result in a tie.

Or simply be canceled.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Brian314
Posts: 47
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6/10/2011 10:37:38 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 10:21:59 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 6/10/2011 10:06:37 AM, Brian314 wrote:
At 6/10/2011 9:55:30 AM, OreEle wrote:
How would you code if both people forfeited? I think voters should just take that into cinsideration.

The automatic loss, in my opinion, would only be activated by a forfeit of the last round or more than one round. If both people did one or both of these things, then the debate should result in a tie.

Or simply be canceled.

That's a much better idea that I hadn't considered. So, in summary, my proposal for dealing with forfeits is as follows:

1. If a person forfeits in the last round or forfeit more than once during a debate, they will automatically lose the debate.
2. If either person or both people forfeit in any one round before the last round of the debate, then the debate opens to voting normally.
3. If both people forfeit either in the last round or at least twice, then the debate is cancelled.
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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6/10/2011 3:06:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Forfeits should not be coded as automatic losses. The simple reason is that forfeiting a round has little effect on the actual content of the debate.

If it's a serial forfeiter then when the person posts the debate in the forfeited debated topic they're guaranteed the win. If it happens to be a good debate then the voters will likely just default the conduct point to the non-forfeiter and continue from there.

I can think of at least two specific instances on the site where if the person who forfeited the debate was given an automatic loss, then the wrong debater would have the win. Case in point: http://www.debate.org...
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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6/10/2011 9:10:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 9:51:28 AM, Brian314 wrote:
At 6/10/2011 9:39:14 AM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
If an opponent forfeits in the last round should they get an automatic loss?

If an opponent forfeits in any round should they get an automatic loss?

Should these be hard coded so no voting is necessary?

Note i am speaking of hard forfeits where the opponent does not even login to post.

My opinion:

If they forfeit in the last round, they should get an automatic loss. If they forfeit in any other round, if it's only once, I think they should be given the chance to come back, even though voters will probably vote against them for conduct. It should only be hard coded if they either forfeit in two or more rounds or forfeit in the last round.

This.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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6/10/2011 9:36:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 9:39:14 AM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
If an opponent forfeits in the last round should they get an automatic loss?

If an opponent forfeits in any round should they get an automatic loss?

Should these be hard coded so no voting is necessary?

Note i am speaking of hard forfeits where the opponent does not even login to post.

I would say no to an auto loss because of a forfeit in any round. The person who forfeits a round has already paid a high enough price just in the fact they are now competing with one less argued round.

It seems the reason that people want an auto win for a forfeit in the last round is because this stops the debate going onto the main page. That's more the sites fault.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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6/10/2011 9:44:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 9:36:25 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:

That's more the sites fault.

You also don't get a notice either if it is a favorite, that is a problem.
Brian314
Posts: 47
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6/10/2011 10:13:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 9:36:25 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 6/10/2011 9:39:14 AM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
If an opponent forfeits in the last round should they get an automatic loss?

If an opponent forfeits in any round should they get an automatic loss?

Should these be hard coded so no voting is necessary?

Note i am speaking of hard forfeits where the opponent does not even login to post.

I would say no to an auto loss because of a forfeit in any round. The person who forfeits a round has already paid a high enough price just in the fact they are now competing with one less argued round.

It seems the reason that people want an auto win for a forfeit in the last round is because this stops the debate going onto the main page. That's more the sites fault.

There are basically two potential solutions to the forfeited debate problem. Either:

a) Forfeited debates appear on the homepage.
or
b) Forfeited debates implement some kind of automatic loss system.

I support the automatic loss system because forfeiting the last round of a debate should constitute a loss, in addition to the fact that allowing forfeited debates on the homepage would just clutter up the Debates in the Voting Period section of the site.
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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6/10/2011 10:35:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 10:13:50 PM, Brian314 wrote:
There are basically two potential solutions to the forfeited debate problem.

Since when is people forfeiting debates a problem on the site?
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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6/10/2011 10:49:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The problem is that some of you assume that the voters will constantly vote against somebody who forfeited the last round, or even every round.

Case in point:
http://www.debate.org...
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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6/10/2011 10:55:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
All this talk about forfeits has given me an idea to have a debate on forfeits.......but what if my opponent forfeits ? :|
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Brian314
Posts: 47
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6/10/2011 11:02:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 10:35:35 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 6/10/2011 10:13:50 PM, Brian314 wrote:
There are basically two potential solutions to the forfeited debate problem.

Since when is people forfeiting debates a problem on the site?

I think the fact that forfeited debates don't appear on the homepage and end up not being voted on is a problem... I usually try to post forfeited debates on the forfeited debates thread, but sometimes they still aren't voted on.

At 6/10/2011 10:49:49 PM, mongeese wrote:
The problem is that some of you assume that the voters will constantly vote against somebody who forfeited the last round, or even every round.

Case in point:
http://www.debate.org...

Well, the case you pointed out had a forfeit that wasn't in the last round- but I see where you're coming from. Well, would it be better for the instigator to be given a choice when creating a debate as to how forfeits should be handled? Some people do that anyways when setting the rules in Round 1.

At 6/10/2011 10:55:18 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
All this talk about forfeits has given me an idea to have a debate on forfeits.......but what if my opponent forfeits ? :|

What would the topic be? I might be interested.
GMDebater
Posts: 172
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6/10/2011 11:51:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 9:39:14 AM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
If an opponent forfeits in the last round should they get an automatic loss?

If an opponent forfeits in any round should they get an automatic loss?

Should these be hard coded so no voting is necessary?

Note i am speaking of hard forfeits where the opponent does not even login to post.

Agree. If I were to know I lost, id resign.
We're both atheists. I just believe in one less god than you.
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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6/11/2011 2:00:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 10:49:49 PM, mongeese wrote:
The problem is that some of you assume that the voters will constantly vote against somebody who forfeited the last round, or even every round.

Case in point:
http://www.debate.org...

Yeah, but there was literally one vote in that debate that wasnt a votebomb. That isnt as big a problem now as it once was.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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6/11/2011 4:36:36 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 10:55:18 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
All this talk about forfeits has given me an idea to have a debate on forfeits.......but what if my opponent forfeits ? :|

What would the topic be? I might be interested.

Something line, Forfeits in a debate on DDO should result in an automatic loss. Or maybe something like Forfeits should not result in an automatic loss
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12