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Debate Behavior Change

askbob
Posts: 7,254
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6/16/2011 11:35:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm pretty sure I've got the kinks worked out. Point out any flaws/raise concerns

Person A creates the debate and an opening statement
Person B accepts the debate and awaits Person A's argument in second round
Person A forefeits
Debate goes offline and is stored in cue (similar to rejected debate challenges)
Person A who forfeits gets either a forfeit or a loss which affects their ranking
Person B is unaffected and receives no win/it isn't counted towards percentile/isn't counted as number of debates.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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6/16/2011 11:37:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Also the option of the enforcement of 1000-2000 character minimums set by the debater.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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6/16/2011 11:57:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
No this is a forfeit by the debate issuer in R2

Example
---------------------------------------------------
R1

Askbob
I think that aliens are blue.

Grape
I accept Askbob's challenge and look forward to hearing his proof
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
R2

Askbob
forfeits the round

Grape
Extend all arguments
----------------------------------------------------------
R3

Askbob
forfeits the round

Grape
extend all arguments vote con
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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6/17/2011 12:02:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
So what if it goes like this:

Round 1

Askbob: Posts case

Grape: Rips case apart

Round 2

Askbob: Can't think of how to defend his case, forfeits

Grape: Extend all args

Should Grape be punished because he debated too well?

I think it could work if round 1 HAD to be for intros though.
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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6/17/2011 12:07:18 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
yup i know that's the only ability for abuse is intentionally forfeiting, though the debater would still receive a loss so there would be little incentive to take this route.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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6/17/2011 12:12:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
the policy's main objective is to limit noob snipes. (people accepting debates from first timers who then leave the site while the sniper picks up an effortless win.

This along with the character minimums will ensure more high quality debates, a more accurate leaderboard and few pitfalls except the possibility that blackvoid brought up. Though this will be limited with the forfeit-er receiving a loss either way. Also most people don't give up after one round because they think they've lost the debate, especially those that start the debate.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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6/17/2011 12:13:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I would also like to pose the elimination of all one-round debates
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
Brainmaster
Posts: 1,603
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6/17/2011 12:14:38 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 12:13:22 AM, askbob wrote:
I would also like to pose the elimination of all one-round debates

This.

Complete and absolute spam

I saw one that said "explain this to me"
Kfc.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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6/17/2011 12:32:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 12:02:05 AM, BlackVoid wrote:
So what if it goes like this:

Round 1

Askbob: Posts case

Grape: Rips case apart


Round 2

Askbob: Can't think of how to defend his case, forfeits

Grape: Extend all args


Should Grape be punished because he debated too well?


I think it could work if round 1 HAD to be for intros though.

I think that is the point. Limit noob sniping. Grape won't except such a debate anymore.

I doubt the support this policy will get (from older and up and coming debaters). It is a great policy, but noob sniping has been the back bone of many win ratios.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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6/17/2011 12:36:37 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 12:14:38 AM, Brainmaster wrote:
At 6/17/2011 12:13:22 AM, askbob wrote:
I would also like to pose the elimination of all one-round debates

This.

Complete and absolute spam

I saw one that said "explain this to me"

they wouldnt be spam if you use them right. I havnt tried this yet but I have been trying to think of a good use for the one round debate option since it exist and I have come up with this idea...

in a one round debate you have the extream challenge of saying everything you need to say and rebut anything you can anticipate your apponent saying.

the challenge of the issuer is the ultimate art of setting up a case.

for the accapter of the challenge, they must avoid question like arguments "how can you answer...what do you have to say about..." and relay mostly on there own case right then and there. study the puzzle of the case set up and post there best argument solution.

this would be alright for debates you dont really believe the rebuttals will be anything but back and forth stuff. maybe you wanted explore the idea of a particular setup case for a resolution but you really don't care about how the follow through would go. once you see your opponents round 1 you kind of know how the debate will go and what they are going to argue. a 1 round debate simply forces all of that repetitious argument into the one round.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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6/17/2011 12:58:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 12:12:59 AM, askbob wrote:
limit noob snipes.

Who actually does this? I see it talked about a lot. No idea who people think do it. Or the determining reason that it was one.
baggins
Posts: 855
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6/17/2011 5:01:49 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 12:58:23 AM, Puck wrote:
At 6/17/2011 12:12:59 AM, askbob wrote:
limit noob snipes.

Who actually does this? I see it talked about a lot. No idea who people think do it. Or the determining reason that it was one.

It is not that common now. Good debaters are now a bit self-conscious about that now. It was very common two years ago when I joined. This was my first debate in this community.

"Debate is a useless medium to resolve disputes"
http://www.debate.org...

Notice that the Con is unapologetic about changing the intent of the debate. Had someone warned me that I should change my resolution to "Debate is a mostly useless medium to resolve disputes", it would have been a much better debate.
The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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6/17/2011 6:59:58 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 12:58:23 AM, Puck wrote:
At 6/17/2011 12:12:59 AM, askbob wrote:
limit noob snipes.

Who actually does this? I see it talked about a lot. No idea who people think do it. Or the determining reason that it was one.

Koopin is just one member i know off the top of my head there are plenty more
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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6/17/2011 7:01:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 6:59:58 AM, askbob wrote:
At 6/17/2011 12:58:23 AM, Puck wrote:
At 6/17/2011 12:12:59 AM, askbob wrote:
limit noob snipes.

Who actually does this? I see it talked about a lot. No idea who people think do it. Or the determining reason that it was one.

Koopin is just one member i know off the top of my head there are plenty more

though he doesn't have malicious intentions behind it, he's the third most winning debater on the site behind danielle and roy
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
Merda
Posts: 322
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6/17/2011 7:38:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 12:32:05 AM, jharry wrote:
At 6/17/2011 12:02:05 AM, BlackVoid wrote:
So what if it goes like this:

Round 1

Askbob: Posts case

Grape: Rips case apart


Round 2

Askbob: Can't think of how to defend his case, forfeits

Grape: Extend all args


Should Grape be punished because he debated too well?


I think it could work if round 1 HAD to be for intros though.

I think that is the point. Limit noob sniping. Grape won't except such a debate anymore.

I doubt the support this policy will get (from older and up and coming debaters). It is a great policy, but noob sniping has been the back bone of many win ratios.

See my win ratio. I'm so ashamed! XD
My manwich!
Brainmaster
Posts: 1,603
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6/17/2011 7:51:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 7:01:05 AM, askbob wrote:
At 6/17/2011 6:59:58 AM, askbob wrote:
At 6/17/2011 12:58:23 AM, Puck wrote:
At 6/17/2011 12:12:59 AM, askbob wrote:
limit noob snipes.

Who actually does this? I see it talked about a lot. No idea who people think do it. Or the determining reason that it was one.

Koopin is just one member i know off the top of my head there are plenty more

though he doesn't have malicious intentions behind it, he's the third most winning debater on the site behind danielle and brian

Fixed
Kfc.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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6/17/2011 8:51:38 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 12:58:23 AM, Puck wrote:
At 6/17/2011 12:12:59 AM, askbob wrote:
limit noob snipes.

Who actually does this? I see it talked about a lot. No idea who people think do it. Or the determining reason that it was one.

Then you won't mind supporting the policy?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Brainmaster
Posts: 1,603
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6/17/2011 9:06:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 12:58:23 AM, Puck wrote:
At 6/17/2011 12:12:59 AM, askbob wrote:
limit noob snipes.

Who actually does this? I see it talked about a lot. No idea who people think do it. Or the determining reason that it was one.

All of my wins are noob snipes
Kfc.
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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6/17/2011 1:19:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
any opinions on the optional character minimums?

One action i want to add is that they be revoked if your opponent forfeits a round but i think they definitely should be in R1 of the debate.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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6/17/2011 2:23:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I like the proposed policy.

I'm bothered more by the practice of spiking a topic by accepting a challenge then failing to post in R1. The R1 forfeit kills the topic, but extracts no penalty from the person who forfeited. I've had this happen many times. A forfeit in R1 should count as a loss for the person who forfeited and a win for the instigator.

This practice leads to the "introductions in R1" thing. That's acceptable, but it means that a potential debater cannot see the opening case.

Also be nice if challenger acceptance could be conditioned on rank rather than age.
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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6/17/2011 4:26:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 2:23:26 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I like the proposed policy.

I'm bothered more by the practice of spiking a topic by accepting a challenge then failing to post in R1. The R1 forfeit kills the topic, but extracts no penalty from the person who forfeited. I've had this happen many times. A forfeit in R1 should count as a loss for the person who forfeited and a win for the instigator.

This practice leads to the "introductions in R1" thing. That's acceptable, but it means that a potential debater cannot see the opening case.

Also be nice if challenger acceptance could be conditioned on rank rather than age.

I don't think the person should receive a win. I'm fine with penalizing, but not awarding those who spot out new debaters hoping they'll only have to do one round and get a win from a forfeit.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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6/17/2011 4:39:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 9:06:42 AM, Brainmaster wrote:
At 6/17/2011 12:58:23 AM, Puck wrote:
At 6/17/2011 12:12:59 AM, askbob wrote:
limit noob snipes.

Who actually does this? I see it talked about a lot. No idea who people think do it. Or the determining reason that it was one.

All of my wins are noob snipes

Don't worry. It isn't possible for you to noob snipe.
Brainmaster
Posts: 1,603
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6/17/2011 4:46:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 4:39:16 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 6/17/2011 9:06:42 AM, Brainmaster wrote:
At 6/17/2011 12:58:23 AM, Puck wrote:
At 6/17/2011 12:12:59 AM, askbob wrote:
limit noob snipes.

Who actually does this? I see it talked about a lot. No idea who people think do it. Or the determining reason that it was one.

All of my wins are noob snipes

Don't worry. It isn't possible for you to noob snipe.

See here

http://www.debate.org...
Kfc.