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Should there be a history forum?

jat93
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7/14/2011 2:01:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I say so. There have been a bunch of times where I wanted to post something that is strictly historical (say, something about the views of the Founding Fathers) and it ends up going in the politics forum. I think pretty much every major subject is accurately covered aside from history.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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7/14/2011 2:24:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Mirza proposed this a while ago and it got shot down. I could see a lot more discussion going on about history than Art.

In fact I've been thinking of debating: In defense of Benedict Arnold, although a better resolution would need to be formed.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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7/14/2011 2:39:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I don't care for history much except for Alternative History and Ancient Alien History.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
jat93
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7/14/2011 3:31:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/14/2011 2:39:29 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I don't care for history much except for Alternative History and Ancient Alien History.

Seriously? History is the greatest weapon we can yield against injustice and abuse at the hands of government, and it is the greatest tool we can use to create a better country and world, if studied observantly. As a Libertarian, I find that history is vital to almost all of my opinions. (I only mention this because I know you are too). One example... The forgotten depression of 1920-21 - free market solutions - economy rebounds in around a year. Great depression of 1929 - FDR, government intervention to the max - epic fail, lasts until the early 1940s. How else can we safely criticize Obama's handling of the economy without observing how FDR handled it and the paralyzing effects on the economy has policies had?

History is the sh!t.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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7/14/2011 3:32:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
History is a history of something. Often politics.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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7/14/2011 3:37:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/14/2011 3:31:25 PM, jat93 wrote:
At 7/14/2011 2:39:29 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I don't care for history much except for Alternative History and Ancient Alien History.

Seriously? History is the greatest weapon we can yield against injustice and abuse at the hands of government, and it is the greatest tool we can use to create a better country and world, if studied observantly. As a Libertarian, I find that history is vital to almost all of my opinions. (I only mention this because I know you are too). One example... The forgotten depression of 1920-21 - free market solutions - economy rebounds in around a year. Great depression of 1929 - FDR, government intervention to the max - epic fail, lasts until the early 1940s. How else can we safely criticize Obama's handling of the economy without observing how FDR handled it and the paralyzing effects on the economy has policies had?

History is the sh!t.

Agreed. Knowing everything that went into where we are now, by looking at all the steps along the way is enlightening; particularly when you are looking at where we are to go from here. People who understand history best understand politics best, because we are now just a variation of what we were then.
FREEDO
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7/14/2011 3:46:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/14/2011 3:32:26 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
History is a history of something. Often politics.

This is true.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

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GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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7/14/2011 3:55:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/14/2011 3:31:25 PM, jat93 wrote:
At 7/14/2011 2:39:29 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I don't care for history much except for Alternative History and Ancient Alien History.

Seriously? History is the greatest weapon we can yield against injustice and abuse at the hands of government, and it is the greatest tool we can use to create a better country and world, if studied observantly. As a Libertarian, I find that history is vital to almost all of my opinions. (I only mention this because I know you are too). One example... The forgotten depression of 1920-21 - free market solutions - economy rebounds in around a year. Great depression of 1929 - FDR, government intervention to the max - epic fail, lasts until the early 1940s. How else can we safely criticize Obama's handling of the economy without observing how FDR handled it and the paralyzing effects on the economy has policies had?

History is the sh!t.

Which is why I like Alternative History. Because then you find out why these things actually happened rather than the fabricated version of history that government approved textbooks try to feed you.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
jat93
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7/14/2011 3:56:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/14/2011 3:32:26 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
History is a history of something. Often politics.

I was under the impression that in that forum, politics more or less referred to current day politics, affairs, and events. There should certainly be a differentiation between that, and something like, say, the American Revolution, or other history from thousands of years ago.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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7/14/2011 4:06:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/14/2011 2:39:29 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I don't care for history much except for Alternative History and Ancient Alien History.
Who... doesn't.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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7/14/2011 4:09:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/14/2011 2:01:56 PM, jat93 wrote:
I say so. There have been a bunch of times where I wanted to post something that is strictly historical (say, something about the views of the Founding Fathers) and it ends up going in the politics forum. I think pretty much every major subject is accurately covered aside from history.
I proposed this before and it was met with stupid opposition. Some even think that if you speak of ancient science, society, etc., in one post, then you should actually scatter it in the different forums. What a good solution.
innomen
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7/14/2011 4:23:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I would suggest that if we were to do this, we would lose one of the less used categories. Art really should be with entertainment.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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7/14/2011 4:47:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It's not something too interesting in discussing though. Events happened in the past, but without any analysis to it, it doesn't mean anything. If you want to offer a political analysis or economic analysis of historical events, then one can just do it in the economics or political section.

I often wonder If there is any benefit (to the student) of learning history in high school. Without a solid foundation of economics, sociology or political science one is just learning facts and information that have no real value. Memorizing events and historical moments is completely useless, since one can easily find the information on wikipedia. If you don't have the foundations in social science, then really you can just use history as a propaganda tool rather than an accurate way to understand human action.

For example, take the holocaust. It's really worthless to learn that it happened and it was a horrible tragedy. What's more interesting though is: Why did it happen? What kinds of institutions, incentives, preferences, and other impacts allowed this event to occur. It's really interesting to think of the holocaust with an understanding of the milgram experiment.
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wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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7/14/2011 4:48:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/14/2011 4:23:56 PM, innomen wrote:
I would suggest that if we were to do this, we would lose one of the less used categories. Art really should be with entertainment.

Games should be with entertainment.

History in every case fits in with a different category (education, politics, art, philosophy, technology, etc.).
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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7/14/2011 4:53:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/14/2011 3:56:08 PM, jat93 wrote:
At 7/14/2011 3:32:26 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
History is a history of something. Often politics.

I was under the impression that in that forum, politics more or less referred to current day politics, affairs, and events.
It doesn't, and most discussions in there are of abstract ideology. You're as likely to see a reference to Locke in our politics forum as one to, say, Newt Gingrich.

There should certainly be a differentiation between that, and something like, say, the American Revolution, or other history from thousands of years ago.
Why? Do you judge them by different rules?

Games should be with entertainment.
The vast majority of the Games forum is playing forum games. In this case, there's a practical reason for having separate forums despite the fact of similar subject matter-- so that threads where you actually discuss things don't get lost amidst a thousand incarnations of mafia, etc.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
mongeese
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7/14/2011 5:11:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/14/2011 4:48:20 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Games should be with entertainment.

Games is meant for playing forum games. Entertainment is meant for discussing other games.
TheAtheistAllegiance
Posts: 1,251
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7/14/2011 7:30:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/14/2011 3:31:25 PM, jat93 wrote:
At 7/14/2011 2:39:29 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I don't care for history much except for Alternative History and Ancient Alien History.

Seriously? History is the greatest weapon we can yield against injustice and abuse at the hands of government, and it is the greatest tool we can use to create a better country and world, if studied observantly. As a Libertarian, I find that history is vital to almost all of my opinions. (I only mention this because I know you are too). One example... The forgotten depression of 1920-21 - free market solutions - economy rebounds in around a year. Great depression of 1929 - FDR, government intervention to the max - epic fail, lasts until the early 1940s. How else can we safely criticize Obama's handling of the economy without observing how FDR handled it and the paralyzing effects on the economy has policies had?

History is the sh!t.

Okay, the 1921 depression wasn't much of a depression - aggregate demand was not the issue. After WWI, the Federal Reserve tightened the money supply really fast, which caused a jolt to the economy, and it wasn't until the money supply was loosened up again that the economy recovered. It wasn't the free market that put a swift end to the depression; it was Fed monetary policy.

Also, how exactly did the US exit the Great Depression? Did the government actually reduce its size during WWII in your view, and that enabled the market to work its magic?
CosmicAlfonzo
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7/14/2011 7:47:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Alien history.. Riiiight, you mean that stuff they show on the "history" channel in order to get ratings.
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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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7/14/2011 7:54:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/14/2011 7:47:19 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Alien history.. Riiiight, you mean that stuff they show on the "history" channel in order to get ratings.

Really isn't that far from how the history channel works.
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Logic_on_rails
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7/14/2011 7:56:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/14/2011 4:09:18 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 7/14/2011 2:01:56 PM, jat93 wrote:
I say so. There have been a bunch of times where I wanted to post something that is strictly historical (say, something about the views of the Founding Fathers) and it ends up going in the politics forum. I think pretty much every major subject is accurately covered aside from history.
I proposed this before and it was met with stupid opposition. Some even think that if you speak of ancient science, society, etc., in one post, then you should actually scatter it in the different forums. What a good solution.

Pretty much what Mirza says here. When I supported such a move people said 'why don't you just create endless numbers of different threads about it!' So, if we say wanted to discuss the Mejii Restoration of Japan, an event that is quite insightful to the present and much of modern history, we should create a thread in the economics section, 1 in the society section, 1 in the politics section, 1 in the education system ... nearly every section.

So, having done this division of content (ie. threads in every forum) what would the result be? A total lack of integration of the topics (ie. education has a lot to do with society in this case) , a lack of interest in individual topics and so on.

But, as this has happened before, it's clear that we should just divide our historical discussions into various forums as there's clearly no reason why these things can't be integrated...
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
phantom
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7/14/2011 8:07:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Definitely
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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7/14/2011 8:27:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Reply: I would like a history Forum. Good idea. You learn history in school don't you. It's relevant to discuss and debate as a subject because people strongly disagree about how to interpret many things in history. You could split it up, but you would lose the topic as a subject in whole.

Example: Say I want to talk about ancient Egypt and how much more relevant it was to the development to the humans race than ancient Greece. The History forum would be a great place to put that topic.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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7/17/2011 12:30:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
history forum if one of the other sections get deleted (Arts should be deleted). Otherwise the list of forum sections is way too long.
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phantom
Posts: 6,774
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7/17/2011 1:42:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/17/2011 12:30:39 AM, darkkermit wrote:
history forum if one of the other sections get deleted (Arts should be deleted). Otherwise the list of forum sections is way too long.

Agreed.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Man-is-good
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7/17/2011 2:29:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/17/2011 12:18:32 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I agree there should be a history forum.

So do I. We can discuss many events (and their significance and impact on societies and nations) there....
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau