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Controversial Subjects

Tiel
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8/12/2011 4:10:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It seems to me that a large portion of this website cannot handle intelligent mature discussion about controversial subjects, without resorting to personally offensive behavior against another member. I do not understand this, for we are on a debate website are we not? This is a website for such subjects, correct?

If I say that I believe all republicans are of lower intelligence that democrats (though I do not), why would you feel it justified to personally attack me for it? I have not personally attacked you, yet you feel it justified in personally attacking me?

If you were to call all members of the Green Party cowards... I would defend the Green party, but I would not feel it justified to attack you personally for your belief.

Can anyone give me some insight to why the members on this website think such behavior justified?

One of the members on this site attacked and provoked me in such a way that I felt an offensive reaction justified in defense. I do not feel that such behavior is necessary and I wondered if some of the long term members of this site can give me some insight as to behavior on this site such as I have described.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/12/2011 4:38:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
This is a debate site. How about you have an actual debate on the "controversial subjects?"
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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8/12/2011 4:40:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 4:38:11 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
This is a debate site. How about you have an actual debate on the "controversial subjects?"

Reply: I have my reasons for not participating in formal debates at this time.

Why don't you answer my question?
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
Cobo
Posts: 556
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8/12/2011 4:42:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 4:40:38 PM, Tiel wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:38:11 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
This is a debate site. How about you have an actual debate on the "controversial subjects?"

Reply: I have my reasons for not participating in formal debates at this time.

Why don't you answer my question?

Yeah, Alot of people that are here don't debate.

And My answer is sorry you were attacked.
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/12/2011 4:43:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 4:40:38 PM, Tiel wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:38:11 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
This is a debate site. How about you have an actual debate on the "controversial subjects?"

Reply: I have my reasons for not participating in formal debates at this time.

Why don't you answer my question?

I have my reasons for not answering your question. lol
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/12/2011 4:43:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 4:38:11 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
This is a debate site. How about you have an actual debate on the "controversial subjects?"

I asked him for a debate and he told me he doesn't come here for formal debates.

Tiel, to be blunt, you are a racist. Don't tell me about your black friends or your fair analysis of every race. You are simply put, a racist since you hold a certain degree of contempt and negative views for the African American race. Racism is not tolerated anywhere even here were there are many unorthodox opinions.

In short, debating you is the only way we can truly address what we believe to be the fallacy of your theories. If you refuse to debate, we must still defend against the wrong things you say, so we do this by speaking in the forums. You dismiss everyone who opposes you in the forums, so all that is left is to simply insult you and your ideas.

Accept a debate, and if your views are sound, you will win and be reassured that we're all wrong.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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8/12/2011 4:47:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 4:10:43 PM, Tiel wrote:
It seems to me that a large portion of this website cannot handle intelligent mature discussion about controversial subjects, without resorting to personally offensive behavior against another member. I do not understand this, for we are on a debate website are we not? This is a website for such subjects, correct?

If I say that I believe all republicans are of lower intelligence that democrats (though I do not), why would you feel it justified to personally attack me for it? I have not personally attacked you, yet you feel it justified in personally attacking me?

If you were to call all members of the Green Party cowards... I would defend the Green party, but I would not feel it justified to attack you personally for your belief.

Can anyone give me some insight to why the members on this website think such behavior justified?

One of the members on this site attacked and provoked me in such a way that I felt an offensive reaction justified in defense. I do not feel that such behavior is necessary and I wondered if some of the long term members of this site can give me some insight as to behavior on this site such as I have described.

You can certainly bring on controversial subjects, but something like all republicans are stupid won't evoke a good response because it's just not what we're up to. People typically come here to be challenged intellectually, and some of what you consider controversial is just juvenile.
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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8/12/2011 4:48:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 4:43:08 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:40:38 PM, Tiel wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:38:11 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
This is a debate site. How about you have an actual debate on the "controversial subjects?"

Reply: I have my reasons for not participating in formal debates at this time.

Why don't you answer my question?

I have my reasons for not answering your question. lol

Reply: Fair enough.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/12/2011 4:49:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 4:48:19 PM, Tiel wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:43:08 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:40:38 PM, Tiel wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:38:11 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
This is a debate site. How about you have an actual debate on the "controversial subjects?"

Reply: I have my reasons for not participating in formal debates at this time.

Why don't you answer my question?

I have my reasons for not answering your question. lol

Reply: Fair enough.

Really? That's "fair enough"? That is actually extremely childish of me and you're just going to accept it?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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8/12/2011 4:54:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 4:47:23 PM, innomen wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:10:43 PM, Tiel wrote:
It seems to me that a large portion of this website cannot handle intelligent mature discussion about controversial subjects, without resorting to personally offensive behavior against another member. I do not understand this, for we are on a debate website are we not? This is a website for such subjects, correct?

If I say that I believe all republicans are of lower intelligence that democrats (though I do not), why would you feel it justified to personally attack me for it? I have not personally attacked you, yet you feel it justified in personally attacking me?

If you were to call all members of the Green Party cowards... I would defend the Green party, but I would not feel it justified to attack you personally for your belief.

Can anyone give me some insight to why the members on this website think such behavior justified?

One of the members on this site attacked and provoked me in such a way that I felt an offensive reaction justified in defense. I do not feel that such behavior is necessary and I wondered if some of the long term members of this site can give me some insight as to behavior on this site such as I have described.

You can certainly bring on controversial subjects, but something like all republicans are stupid won't evoke a good response because it's just not what we're up to. People typically come here to be challenged intellectually, and some of what you consider controversial is just juvenile.

Reply: Juvenile? I would have to disagree?

First, what specifically are you calling juvenile. Since you know so much about me and my views, I would like for you to tell me what is juvenile about the subjects I posted at anytime.

Second, more specifically, racial comparison is a very valid subject. The only juvenile behavior on the subject throughout this website seems to be from the immature members who can't handle such controversial subjects in a mature way. There is going to be opinions that people may not like towards a group that a member might be a part of or support, that does not give that member the right to personally attack another member for their views or beliefs.

If I think blacks make certain kinds of choices and you don't like my opinion, that does not give you the right to personally attack me.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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8/12/2011 4:56:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 4:47:34 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
You're seriously complainig about offensive posts? You? Seriously?

Reply: I have only personally attacked one member and that was after shew repeatedly attacked me personally and provoked such behavior. People should not be allowed to just disrespect and attack other members, when they were never personally attacked themselves.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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8/12/2011 4:57:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 4:49:22 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:48:19 PM, Tiel wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:43:08 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:40:38 PM, Tiel wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:38:11 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
This is a debate site. How about you have an actual debate on the "controversial subjects?"

Reply: I have my reasons for not participating in formal debates at this time.

Why don't you answer my question?

I have my reasons for not answering your question. lol

Reply: Fair enough.

Really? That's "fair enough"? That is actually extremely childish of me and you're just going to accept it?

Reply: Sure. Who am I to tell you otherwise. I am not your boss, nor your superior. I asked you a question. It is your choice to respectfully answer not.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/12/2011 4:59:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 4:54:23 PM, Tiel wrote:
If I think blacks make certain kinds of choices and you don't like my opinion, that does not give you the right to personally attack me.

Was it not your logic in the last forum that it's okay to insult someone if provoked? I provoked you, so you called me arrogant and ignorant.

Here you are provoking a whole community and suddenly your maxim has changed?

*cough* hypocrite *cough*
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Cobo
Posts: 556
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8/12/2011 5:09:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 4:59:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:54:23 PM, Tiel wrote:
If I think blacks make certain kinds of choices and you don't like my opinion, that does not give you the right to personally attack me.


Was it not your logic in the last forum that it's okay to insult someone if provoked? I provoked you, so you called me arrogant and ignorant.

Here you are provoking a whole community and suddenly your maxim has changed?

*cough* hypocrite *cough*

I don't recall him provoking anyone.
You guys honestly provoked him, He stated his views and you guys disagreed.
Then you guys began calling him a rasist.
I don't see any reason behind that.
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Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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8/12/2011 5:10:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 4:40:38 PM, Tiel wrote:
Reply: I have my reasons for not participating in formal debates at this time.
Why? A debate would easily prevent any chance of insult from other members (at least in the debate itself) and allow yourself to validate your opinions and beliefs that you have set in the forum.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/12/2011 5:13:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 5:09:37 PM, Cobo wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:59:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:54:23 PM, Tiel wrote:
If I think blacks make certain kinds of choices and you don't like my opinion, that does not give you the right to personally attack me.


Was it not your logic in the last forum that it's okay to insult someone if provoked? I provoked you, so you called me arrogant and ignorant.

Here you are provoking a whole community and suddenly your maxim has changed?

*cough* hypocrite *cough*

I don't recall him provoking anyone.
You guys honestly provoked him, He stated his views and you guys disagreed.
Then you guys began calling him a rasist.
I don't see any reason behind that.

You're being awfully permissive. He says "black" people "are the most animal-like and involved in crime" the latter can be debated, but the former was pure unmitigated racism. A provocation deserving of insult, shame, and disrespect of the highest order. Many members were respectful to Tiel at first and tried to logically negate and convince him, but he dismisses whoever disagrees with him.

He's a wolf in sheep's clothing. Don't enable him.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Cobo
Posts: 556
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8/12/2011 5:21:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 5:13:24 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/12/2011 5:09:37 PM, Cobo wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:59:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:54:23 PM, Tiel wrote:
If I think blacks make certain kinds of choices and you don't like my opinion, that does not give you the right to personally attack me.


Was it not your logic in the last forum that it's okay to insult someone if provoked? I provoked you, so you called me arrogant and ignorant.

Here you are provoking a whole community and suddenly your maxim has changed?

*cough* hypocrite *cough*

I don't recall him provoking anyone.
You guys honestly provoked him, He stated his views and you guys disagreed.
Then you guys began calling him a rasist.
I don't see any reason behind that.


You're being awfully permissive. He says "black" people "are the most animal-like and involved in crime" the latter can be debated, but the former was pure unmitigated racism. A provocation deserving of insult, shame, and disrespect of the highest order. Many members were respectful to Tiel at first and tried to logically negate and convince him, but he dismisses whoever disagrees with him.

He's a wolf in sheep's clothing. Don't enable him.

An as a black Male I'm not offended by that.
Do you Realise those are just words!!! Has that statement damaged my reputation offline any way?
No it hasn't.
When did the world become such pansies that, when someone presents a worldview, that you disagree with you have to label them something they are not.
And yes, I said pansies.
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/12/2011 5:22:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 5:09:37 PM, Cobo wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:59:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:54:23 PM, Tiel wrote:
If I think blacks make certain kinds of choices and you don't like my opinion, that does not give you the right to personally attack me.


Was it not your logic in the last forum that it's okay to insult someone if provoked? I provoked you, so you called me arrogant and ignorant.

Here you are provoking a whole community and suddenly your maxim has changed?

*cough* hypocrite *cough*

I don't recall him provoking anyone.
You guys honestly provoked him, He stated his views and you guys disagreed.
Then you guys began calling him a rasist.
I don't see any reason behind that.

You probably weren't in the thread.

Tiel - "Don't think that I don't see my own races flaws. But at least we are clean, organized, educated, and make good decisions for the present and future. Look at all developed areas that are predominately white, they are the best most expensive areas. They are the highest quality."
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/12/2011 5:23:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 5:21:05 PM, Cobo wrote:
At 8/12/2011 5:13:24 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/12/2011 5:09:37 PM, Cobo wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:59:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:54:23 PM, Tiel wrote:
If I think blacks make certain kinds of choices and you don't like my opinion, that does not give you the right to personally attack me.


Was it not your logic in the last forum that it's okay to insult someone if provoked? I provoked you, so you called me arrogant and ignorant.

Here you are provoking a whole community and suddenly your maxim has changed?

*cough* hypocrite *cough*

I don't recall him provoking anyone.
You guys honestly provoked him, He stated his views and you guys disagreed.
Then you guys began calling him a rasist.
I don't see any reason behind that.


You're being awfully permissive. He says "black" people "are the most animal-like and involved in crime" the latter can be debated, but the former was pure unmitigated racism. A provocation deserving of insult, shame, and disrespect of the highest order. Many members were respectful to Tiel at first and tried to logically negate and convince him, but he dismisses whoever disagrees with him.

He's a wolf in sheep's clothing. Don't enable him.

An as a black Male I'm not offended by that.
Do you Realise those are just words!!! Has that statement damaged my reputation offline any way?
No it hasn't.
When did the world become such pansies that, when someone presents a worldview, that you disagree with you have to label them something they are not.
And yes, I said pansies.

If you stand by that your offline reputation hasn't been damaged, and they are just words, then you must also stand by that members calling him a racist are "just words" and no reason for him to get butt hurt over.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Cobo
Posts: 556
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8/12/2011 5:28:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 5:22:03 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/12/2011 5:09:37 PM, Cobo wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:59:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:54:23 PM, Tiel wrote:
If I think blacks make certain kinds of choices and you don't like my opinion, that does not give you the right to personally attack me.


Was it not your logic in the last forum that it's okay to insult someone if provoked? I provoked you, so you called me arrogant and ignorant.

Here you are provoking a whole community and suddenly your maxim has changed?

*cough* hypocrite *cough*

I don't recall him provoking anyone.
You guys honestly provoked him, He stated his views and you guys disagreed.
Then you guys began calling him a rasist.
I don't see any reason behind that.

You probably weren't in the thread.

Tiel - "Don't think that I don't see my own races flaws. But at least we are clean, organized, educated, and make good decisions for the present and future. Look at all developed areas that are predominately white, they are the best most expensive areas. They are the highest quality."

I honestly don't see anything wrong with that as long as
A-He has sources
B-Define some key words
Then I'm fine
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/12/2011 5:30:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 5:28:01 PM, Cobo wrote:
At 8/12/2011 5:22:03 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/12/2011 5:09:37 PM, Cobo wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:59:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:54:23 PM, Tiel wrote:
If I think blacks make certain kinds of choices and you don't like my opinion, that does not give you the right to personally attack me.


Was it not your logic in the last forum that it's okay to insult someone if provoked? I provoked you, so you called me arrogant and ignorant.

Here you are provoking a whole community and suddenly your maxim has changed?

*cough* hypocrite *cough*

I don't recall him provoking anyone.
You guys honestly provoked him, He stated his views and you guys disagreed.
Then you guys began calling him a rasist.
I don't see any reason behind that.

You probably weren't in the thread.

Tiel - "Don't think that I don't see my own races flaws. But at least we are clean, organized, educated, and make good decisions for the present and future. Look at all developed areas that are predominately white, they are the best most expensive areas. They are the highest quality."

I honestly don't see anything wrong with that as long as
A-He has sources
B-Define some key words
Then I'm fine

You don't have to have a problem with it in order for it to be racist.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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8/12/2011 5:30:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Woo-hoo I get a whole thread! I stand by my contention that Tiel is a moron. He literally is incapable of seeing anything logically.

Tiel: I don't care what anyone says, this is what I think of black people.

And then you have the nerve to say that you were open to discussion? When people challenged your views, you completely flipped out. You had no reason to flip out on me in that thread. Thank you for making me such an important part of your day. I appreciate it.
Cobo
Posts: 556
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8/12/2011 5:30:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 5:23:50 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/12/2011 5:21:05 PM, Cobo wrote:
At 8/12/2011 5:13:24 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/12/2011 5:09:37 PM, Cobo wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:59:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/12/2011 4:54:23 PM, Tiel wrote:
If I think blacks make certain kinds of choices and you don't like my opinion, that does not give you the right to personally attack me.


Was it not your logic in the last forum that it's okay to insult someone if provoked? I provoked you, so you called me arrogant and ignorant.

Here you are provoking a whole community and suddenly your maxim has changed?

*cough* hypocrite *cough*

I don't recall him provoking anyone.
You guys honestly provoked him, He stated his views and you guys disagreed.
Then you guys began calling him a rasist.
I don't see any reason behind that.


You're being awfully permissive. He says "black" people "are the most animal-like and involved in crime" the latter can be debated, but the former was pure unmitigated racism. A provocation deserving of insult, shame, and disrespect of the highest order. Many members were respectful to Tiel at first and tried to logically negate and convince him, but he dismisses whoever disagrees with him.

He's a wolf in sheep's clothing. Don't enable him.

An as a black Male I'm not offended by that.
Do you Realise those are just words!!! Has that statement damaged my reputation offline any way?
No it hasn't.
When did the world become such pansies that, when someone presents a worldview, that you disagree with you have to label them something they are not.
And yes, I said pansies.

If you stand by that your offline reputation hasn't been damaged, and they are just words, then you must also stand by that members calling him a racist are "just words" and no reason for him to get butt hurt over.

Ahh,Semi-touche.
But they took offense at what someone said first.
Meaning if they had not, this would have been avoided.
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Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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8/12/2011 5:32:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Statement: There is a major difference here. The difference is that I never personally attacked anyone in that forum. I may have views about the human races that you do not agree with, but I also gave my opinions about the flaws in every race, including my own. None of it matters, for I was attacked personally when I never personally attacked any member to provoke such behavior towards me.

That is my point. People should not be personally attacking other member's just because they have views or opinions that are not agreed with. Isn't that in the policy of this site?

I say my view and you call me an idiot, unintelligent, racist, etc.? How is that justified? How did I deserve such a personal attack against me? Such a case would lose in a court of law.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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8/12/2011 5:33:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Cobo, have you even been following the conversation? Like I said, I will quote how it went down. If you actually READ the thread he made, you will see that I said nothing offensive to him and he responded to me in a negative way. I need to drive now. Later.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/12/2011 5:35:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Tiel, calling a race, A WHOLE GROUP of human beings "animal-like" is personal, insulting, and provocative...not to mention racist.

Your fallacious cry for a civil discussion is no more than crocodile tears. You poked the bear with a stick and the bear clawed your face in. Sounds fair to me.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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8/12/2011 5:35:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 5:30:28 PM, nonentity wrote:
Woo-hoo I get a whole thread! I stand by my contention that Tiel is a moron. He literally is incapable of seeing anything logically.

Tiel: I don't care what anyone says, this is what I think of black people.

And then you have the nerve to say that you were open to discussion? When people challenged your views, you completely flipped out. You had no reason to flip out on me in that thread. Thank you for making me such an important part of your day. I appreciate it.

Reply: I never flipped out in any such way and you will not find a single post to support your accusation. The only time I flipped out on you was after repeated personal attacks against me. You really think that you are an important part of my day? Ego.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
Cobo
Posts: 556
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8/12/2011 5:38:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 5:33:34 PM, nonentity wrote:
Cobo, have you even been following the conversation? Like I said, I will quote how it went down. If you actually READ the thread he made, you will see that I said nothing offensive to him and he responded to me in a negative way. I need to drive now. Later.

I read, And posted multiple times!
Everyone just seems to ignore me.:(
But yep I read it, And I saw negative words(Or at least what some people would consider negative) on both sides
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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/12/2011 5:38:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 5:35:54 PM, Tiel wrote:
You really think that you are an important part of my day? Ego.

and he continues to provoke!
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault