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marcuscato
Posts: 738
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9/2/2011 5:01:25 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I would like to debate:
Legalize:medically assisted female foeticide /sex selective abortion.
Country of reference: India
I will be pro.
This is not an abortion/no abortion debate. I would like to focus more on the gender aspect.Hopefully issues of morality regarding abortion will be minimized because morning after pills etc are available.
There was a debate between ragnar rahl and someone else on the topic: legalise gay marriage. Ragnar rahl proposed to do away with marriage for heterosexuals. I do not want to end up debating something like that.
This is a sensitive issue and I intend to be choosy about opponent. I do not want to make a mockery of this issue.No trolls.

It will be 3-4 rounds.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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9/2/2011 10:38:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
You're wanting to debate if a mother should be allowed to kill her unborn child because it is not the gender she wants?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
BennyW
Posts: 698
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9/2/2011 11:20:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I would debate this but for the morality issue,e if I could avoid talking about the morality of abortion in general wouldn't it still be necessary to mention the morality of sex selection? Also, wouldn't China be a better country of reference?
You didn't build that-Obama
It's pretty lazy to quote things you disagree with, call it stupid and move on, rather than arguing with the person. -000ike
el-badgero
Posts: 1,045
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9/2/2011 12:49:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/2/2011 10:38:03 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
You're wanting to debate if a mother should be allowed to kill her unborn child because it is not the gender she wants?

my gathering of it was only legalizing the abortion of females... they'd be more of a burden on Indian families or something? might suffer more? wouldn't know much about his angles...or India. besides animals....

maybe set up the debate to be about if abortion of one sex was to be legalised in India, it should be of females rather than males....

that'd get you out of an abortion/no abortion debate...

either way, is the abortion aspect just a lure or what? :P
DATCMOTO's moustache makes him look like an eejit...

edit: nah, i'm jealous... God's an eejit definitely though!
el-badgero
Posts: 1,045
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9/2/2011 1:03:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
or maybe oreele gathered it right, but then there's no avoiding it being an abortion/no abortion debate....
DATCMOTO's moustache makes him look like an eejit...

edit: nah, i'm jealous... God's an eejit definitely though!
el-badgero
Posts: 1,045
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9/2/2011 1:05:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
it would be specifically an abortion/no abortion debate even....
DATCMOTO's moustache makes him look like an eejit...

edit: nah, i'm jealous... God's an eejit definitely though!
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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9/2/2011 2:19:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I don't see how you can debate this issue without directly debating the morality of abortion in general. Only people who are not okay with abortion in general, OR those who strictly oppose it unless the mother's life is in jeopardy, will be against it. Otherwise pro-choice people would say that a mother has the right (and is thus morally permissible) to have an abortion for any reason she wants.
President of DDO
el-badgero
Posts: 1,045
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9/2/2011 6:06:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
my apologies good sir. I didn't know you were Indian. I've never seen one of you lot around here. I was nearly thinking it was cos the Americans named their bad guys after you. well no I wasn't.. but now I am..

but anyway, I commend you on your sympathy, and think it would make a very interesting debate. basterdnen Americans?
DATCMOTO's moustache makes him look like an eejit...

edit: nah, i'm jealous... God's an eejit definitely though!
el-badgero
Posts: 1,045
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9/2/2011 6:26:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/2/2011 6:06:51 PM, el-badgero wrote:
my apologies good sir. I didn't know you were Indian. I've never seen one of you lot around here. I was nearly thinking it was cos the Americans named their bad guys after you. well no I wasn't.. but now I am..

but anyway, I commend you on your sympathy, and think it would make a very interesting debate. basterdnen Americans?
DATCMOTO's moustache makes him look like an eejit...

edit: nah, i'm jealous... God's an eejit definitely though!
marcuscato
Posts: 738
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9/3/2011 5:01:01 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
@Ore ele"You're wanting to debate if a mother should be allowed to kill her unborn child because it is not the gender she wants?"
Yes
@benny"I would debate this but for the morality issue,e if I could avoid talking about the morality of abortion in general wouldn't it still be necessary to mention the morality of sex selection? Also, wouldn't China be a better country of reference?"
Hmm, I will state that it is unethical to prevent Parents from deciding.
Many people describe it as being a heinous crime.Its illegal and there are strict laws against it. I do not understand why.

@badgerthey'd be more of a burden on Indian families or something? might suffer more? wouldn't know much about his angles...or India.
Its committed for three reasons:
1.Parents want an heir to the family. They want the surname to continue etc.(In India, the wife generally changes her surname. She takes on her husbands surname.The children also have the fathers surname.)
2. Parents think a son will be able to support them in their old age. Since a woman goes into her in-laws family, she is considered to be less likely to support her biological parents.
3.For poor people, boys mean more hands for work. Not sure if this really works out though.(no reason why women cant work)

In reality there are laws/scholarships that support girls.Seats are reserved in colleges for girls. There is state funding for education of the girl child, especially when parents have only 1 child.
Its not a financial burden but may be perceived to be so. Interestingly this gender ratio is most skewed in affluent states.

besides animals....
I did not understand that, are you being racist?

"maybe set up the debate to be about if abortion of one sex was to be legalised in India, it should be of females rather than males...."
Nope, the topic is sex selective abortion(gender neutral). I mentioned female foeticide because
a)Its more likely to grab eyeballs because its "heinous"
b)Sex selective abortion in India is almost exclusively female foeticide.

@danielleI don't see how you can debate this issue without directly debating the morality of abortion in general. Only people who are not okay with abortion in general, OR those who strictly oppose it unless the mother's life is in jeopardy, will be against it. Otherwise pro-choice people would say that a mother has the right (and is thus morally permissible) to have an abortion for any reason she wants.

We have morning after pills and that sort of thing. That basically means our country is pro abortion. We still ban foeticide because it may result in 'societal imbalance'.

@badger"I've never seen one of you lot around here."
Odd, I used to think that there werent a lot of Indians on DDO.Then someone said(on the kazak thread i think) most members are from US UK or India.

I was nearly thinking it was cos the Americans named their bad guys after you.
Huh?
though your bird's not pregnant with a girl by any chance you evil bastard? are ye an ugly family? :P
lawlz...
marcuscato
Posts: 738
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9/3/2011 5:07:33 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Needless to say i dont know how to multi quote.

Extract on female foeticide:
"The government of India, anticipating a catastrophe in the form of severe imbalance in the male-female ratio, has passed the Act," said the affidavit, pointing out that the sex ratio in the country of the population in the 0 to 6 age group was adversely against the girl child. The infant child ratio has come down from 945 (for every 1,000 male children) as per the 1991 census to 927 in 2001. The problem was especially bad in affluent states like Punjab (798), Haryana (819), Chandigarh (845), Delhi (868), Gujarat (883) and Himachal Pradesh (896)."

If everyone thinks the parents have the right of sex selective abortion(assuming abortion is moral) then I would like to discuss the effects of a skewed gender ratio(on a more appropriate forum thread(not a debate,for obvious reasons)).
el-badgero
Posts: 1,045
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9/3/2011 6:15:18 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/3/2011 5:01:01 AM, marcuscato wrote:
@Ore ele"You're wanting to debate if a mother should be allowed to kill her unborn child because it is not the gender she wants?"
Yes
@benny"I would debate this but for the morality issue,e if I could avoid talking about the morality of abortion in general wouldn't it still be necessary to mention the morality of sex selection? Also, wouldn't China be a better country of reference?"
Hmm, I will state that it is unethical to prevent Parents from deciding.
Many people describe it as being a heinous crime.Its illegal and there are strict laws against it. I do not understand why.

@badgerthey'd be more of a burden on Indian families or something? might suffer more? wouldn't know much about his angles...or India.
Its committed for three reasons:
1.Parents want an heir to the family. They want the surname to continue etc.(In India, the wife generally changes her surname. She takes on her husbands surname.The children also have the fathers surname.)
2. Parents think a son will be able to support them in their old age. Since a woman goes into her in-laws family, she is considered to be less likely to support her biological parents.
3.For poor people, boys mean more hands for work. Not sure if this really works out though.(no reason why women cant work)

would she actually be much less likely to support her family though? do many people consider that? can you have multiple wives if you want to? out of interest...and you can't be raising children as slaves. though i suppose that'd be the done thing a lot of places...

In reality there are laws/scholarships that support girls.Seats are reserved in colleges for girls. There is state funding for education of the girl child, especially when parents have only 1 child.
Its not a financial burden but may be perceived to be so.

so you're some sort of twisted sexist child enslaver then? why not just legalise it across the board at that stage? i mean you've no problem with killing girl fetuses...?

Interestingly this gender ratio is most skewed in affluent states.

as in ye've more men than women in them? that's fairly interesting......


besides animals....
I did not understand that, are you being racist?

no, not at all! ye've just got cool animals! like leopards and rhinos and things!

"maybe set up the debate to be about if abortion of one sex was to be legalised in India, it should be of females rather than males...."
Nope, the topic is sex selective abortion(gender neutral). I mentioned female foeticide because
a)Its more likely to grab eyeballs because its "heinous"
b)Sex selective abortion in India is almost exclusively female foeticide.

@danielleI don't see how you can debate this issue without directly debating the morality of abortion in general. Only people who are not okay with abortion in general, OR those who strictly oppose it unless the mother's life is in jeopardy, will be against it. Otherwise pro-choice people would say that a mother has the right (and is thus morally permissible) to have an abortion for any reason she wants.

We have morning after pills and that sort of thing. That basically means our country is pro abortion. We still ban foeticide because it may result in 'societal imbalance'.

@badger"I've never seen one of you lot around here."
Odd, I used to think that there werent a lot of Indians on DDO.Then someone said(on the kazak thread i think) most members are from US UK or India.

I was nearly thinking it was cos the Americans named their bad guys after you.
Huh?

joke! interesting one though! lol

though your bird's not pregnant with a girl by any chance you evil bastard? are ye an ugly family? :P
lawlz...

lol :)
DATCMOTO's moustache makes him look like an eejit...

edit: nah, i'm jealous... God's an eejit definitely though!
el-badgero
Posts: 1,045
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9/3/2011 9:15:02 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/3/2011 5:07:33 AM, marcuscato wrote:
Needless to say i dont know how to multi quote.

Extract on female foeticide:
"The government of India, anticipating a catastrophe in the form of severe imbalance in the male-female ratio, has passed the Act," said the affidavit, pointing out that the sex ratio in the country of the population in the 0 to 6 age group was adversely against the girl child. The infant child ratio has come down from 945 (for every 1,000 male children) as per the 1991 census to 927 in 2001. The problem was especially bad in affluent states like Punjab (798), Haryana (819), Chandigarh (845), Delhi (868), Gujarat (883) and Himachal Pradesh (896)."

If everyone thinks the parents have the right of sex selective abortion(assuming abortion is moral) then I would like to discuss the effects of a skewed gender ratio(on a more appropriate forum thread(not a debate,for obvious reasons)).

didn't see this bit. interesting. granting people the right to abortion grants them the right to abortion though i think. no further argument needed for as to why one might opt for it...they could just keep it to themselves. you're definitely after aborting your baby girl aren't you ya evil bastard? joke :P kinda...

though, i'd be kinda somewhat against late term abortions because they're, i find, just kinda disgusting... when does one find out if it's to be a boy or a girl? and this whole child slavery aspect you're after introducing into the controversy for me, i'd be rather against lol..
DATCMOTO's moustache makes him look like an eejit...

edit: nah, i'm jealous... God's an eejit definitely though!
belle
Posts: 4,113
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9/3/2011 9:57:36 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
dunno how you could enforce this without effectively banning abortion, at least for that segment of the population pregnant with girls... obviously no one is going to admit that they are having one because tehy don't want a girl, but just as obviously, some people are going to want abortions for other reasons and happen to be carrying a girl... how is the law supposed to deal with that?
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
el-badgero
Posts: 1,045
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9/3/2011 11:49:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
"maybe set up the debate to be about if abortion of one sex was to be legalised in India, it should be of females rather than males...."
Nope, the topic is sex selective abortion(gender neutral). I mentioned female foeticide because
a)Its more likely to grab eyeballs because its "heinous"
b)Sex selective abortion in India is almost exclusively female foeticide.

just spotted this. though i figure i've covered it already. if you're assuming abortion as a whole moral and legal, reasons for doing so can't matter...so in other words, an argument about sex selective abortion and whether it should be legalised could only boil down to an abortion/no abortion, or as i suggested, restricted abortion debate...and those aren't what you're looking to debate?
DATCMOTO's moustache makes him look like an eejit...

edit: nah, i'm jealous... God's an eejit definitely though!
marcuscato
Posts: 738
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9/3/2011 11:56:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
@belle
Sex determination is generally done using ultrasound techniques.
" Manufacturers of ultrasound equipment are now required to sell their products only to registered clinics, and all ultrasonographers now have to maintain records of all tests conducted by them."

Of course this is not really working.Too many loopholes.Many people go abroad etc.
Also banning female foeticide sometimes results in female infanticide.

I keep reading articles which describe it as heinous, I thought there was some point which i may have missed.
Any takers for the debate?