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Interesting Voting Dilemma

OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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9/11/2011 1:19:24 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
You're judging a debate between debater A and debater B, and you come to the conclusion that the debate ended a tie. However, you see there is one vote that awards 3 points (based on convincing argument) to debater A with an RFD that you don't agree with. Is it right to give 3 points to B to "balance it out" or do you just vote zero points and not pay attention to the previous voter? Is it even worth voting at all if you think it's tied?
iamdrunkritenow
Posts: 25
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9/11/2011 1:20:50 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/11/2011 1:19:24 AM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
You're judging a debate between debater A and debater B, and you come to the conclusion that the debate ended a tie. However, you see there is one vote that awards 3 points (based on convincing argument) to debater A with an RFD that you don't agree with. Is it right to give 3 points to B to "balance it out" or do you just vote zero points and not pay attention to the previous voter? Is it even worth voting at all if you think it's tied?

you can just vote that they i dunno tied lol
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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9/11/2011 2:47:02 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/11/2011 2:33:15 AM, Rockylightning wrote:
The point total is supposed to be a consensus of the voting majority.

Not sure I agree with that. I'd think its to determine who won the debate, since thats what the judging categories basically ask for. In that case, it would be justified in voting for B because you're contributing to that cause. Besides, if you're saying we should just respect whatever the voters put out, then counter-votebombing would be a bad thing.
Rockylightning
Posts: 2,862
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9/11/2011 3:07:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/11/2011 2:47:02 AM, BlackVoid wrote:
At 9/11/2011 2:33:15 AM, Rockylightning wrote:
The point total is supposed to be a consensus of the voting majority.

Not sure I agree with that. I'd think its to determine who won the debate, since thats what the judging categories basically ask for. In that case, it would be justified in voting for B because you're contributing to that cause. Besides, if you're saying we should just respect whatever the voters put out, then counter-votebombing would be a bad thing.

No, I'm saying we count all votes towards the consensus. Trying to balance someone else's vote (that isnt a votebomb) is essentially voting for person B because it makes it easier for someone else to put person B in the lead, whereas if you hadnt done your balancing act, B would be tied.
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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9/11/2011 3:15:08 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Ok, what if someone gives an RFD, and they vote Pro based off an argument that wasn't even made in the debate round. Or, what if they vote Pro on an argument that Pro actually dropped. Or, what if they just say something really vague like "Pro did a better job of rebutting the con while building his own case". All of these happen. If a good, honest voter who read the debate thinks it might have been a tie, isn't he justified in just going ahead and going Con? Keep in mind, this would only create a tie.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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9/11/2011 6:07:50 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Vote based on how to think the voters did - a tie. Anything more than that just complicates things and opens the door for abuse,
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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9/11/2011 9:08:01 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/11/2011 3:15:08 AM, BlackVoid wrote:
Ok, what if someone gives an RFD, and they vote Pro based off an argument that wasn't even made in the debate round. Or, what if they vote Pro on an argument that Pro actually dropped. Or, what if they just say something really vague like "Pro did a better job of rebutting the con while building his own case". All of these happen. If a good, honest voter who read the debate thinks it might have been a tie, isn't he justified in just going ahead and going Con? Keep in mind, this would only create a tie.

I'd have to agree with Rockylightning in this case. The first voters vote must be respected as long as it isn't a votebomb. You may feel that it is a tie but another voter felt that it was a win for A. Therefore, on balance, it must a win for A.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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9/11/2011 9:09:52 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Now its different if you thought B should win. Now we have one person thinking A should win, and one person thinking B should win. On balance, it should be tie.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/11/2011 9:24:52 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Actually, this is something many people have already come to a decision about. It comes to my understand that there are people that would vote-bomb any forfeited debates even though several criteria of that ballot are tied. There are also people who vote-bomb against any individual who instigates a debate with only one round.

Point being: There is no established consensus on the proper method of voting. Everyone votes as they see fit whether or not it makes sense upon analysis.

If you ask me, you should give the convincing argument to whoever earned it. Its not your job to even out the possibly wrong voting decisions of others to even out the debate.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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9/11/2011 10:23:43 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I say read the debate again. One debater necessarily has a higher burden of proof than the other. If their opponent was able to thwart their arguments, and you feel it has ended in a tie, then they did not meet their burden and will therefore have technically lost the debate. At best you should just vote it as a tie for arguments. I've split up points in the past (maybe once or twice, tops) but I agree that's probably not a good idea, looking back.
President of DDO
wierdman
Posts: 721
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9/11/2011 12:40:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It isn't right to ward him 3 points to balance it out. you have to vote based on your perception of the debate. The other debater voted on his perception of the debate.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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9/11/2011 12:58:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/11/2011 12:40:13 PM, wierdman wrote:
It isn't right to ward him 3 points to balance it out. you have to vote based on your perception of the debate. The other debater voted on his perception of the debate.

If your perception was a tie, then you should vote a tie. Since on balance, one person (you) thought it was a tie, and a second person (the previous voter) thought that Pro had won, then on balance Pro should win.

However, if you thought that Con won and the previous voter thought that Pro won, then you should vote for Con and the overall vote will be a tie just the way it should be.
PartamRuhem
Posts: 1,559
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9/11/2011 4:09:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/11/2011 6:07:50 AM, Kinesis wrote:
Vote based on how to think the voters did - a tie. Anything more than that just complicates things and opens the door for abuse,

I agree. If each voter disregards previous voters, and votes honestly how they think, it will create a more strict voting system, where people can't win or get points because a voter didn't agree with another voter. In high school debates, the judges don't discuss what they think or look at each's others notes when they judge.
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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9/11/2011 4:33:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/11/2011 4:09:33 PM, PartamRuhem wrote:
At 9/11/2011 6:07:50 AM, Kinesis wrote:
Vote based on how to think the voters did - a tie. Anything more than that just complicates things and opens the door for abuse,

I agree. If each voter disregards previous voters, and votes honestly how they think, it will create a more strict voting system, where people can't win or get points because a voter didn't agree with another voter. In high school debates, the judges don't discuss what they think or look at each's others notes when they judge.

Thats not always true.
wierdman
Posts: 721
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9/11/2011 7:00:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/11/2011 12:58:02 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 9/11/2011 12:40:13 PM, wierdman wrote:
It isn't right to ward him 3 points to balance it out. you have to vote based on your perception of the debate. The other debater voted on his perception of the debate.

If your perception was a tie, then you should vote a tie. Since on balance, one person (you) thought it was a tie, and a second person (the previous voter) thought that Pro had won, then on balance Pro should win.

However, if you thought that Con won and the previous voter thought that Pro won, then you should vote for Con and the overall vote will be a tie just the way it should be.

i agree that you should vote tie and not to balance the debate just because you feel that it should be a tie.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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9/11/2011 8:00:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/11/2011 1:19:24 AM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
You're judging a debate between debater A and debater B, and you come to the conclusion that the debate ended a tie. However, you see there is one vote that awards 3 points (based on convincing argument) to debater A with an RFD that you don't agree with. Is it right to give 3 points to B to "balance it out" or do you just vote zero points and not pay attention to the previous voter? Is it even worth voting at all if you think it's tied?

Other peoples votes should never influence your decision. If one person votes for A, and one person feels it is a tie, then A is clearly winning.
wierdman
Posts: 721
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9/11/2011 8:41:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/11/2011 8:00:56 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/11/2011 1:19:24 AM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
You're judging a debate between debater A and debater B, and you come to the conclusion that the debate ended a tie. However, you see there is one vote that awards 3 points (based on convincing argument) to debater A with an RFD that you don't agree with. Is it right to give 3 points to B to "balance it out" or do you just vote zero points and not pay attention to the previous voter? Is it even worth voting at all if you think it's tied?

Other peoples votes should never influence your decision. If one person votes for A, and one person feels it is a tie, then A is clearly winning.

Completely agree. (nice word choice.)
BangBang-Coconut
Posts: 265
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9/11/2011 9:00:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/11/2011 1:19:24 AM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
You're judging a debate between debater A and debater B, and you come to the conclusion that the debate ended a tie. However, you see there is one vote that awards 3 points (based on convincing argument) to debater A with an RFD that you don't agree with. Is it right to give 3 points to B to "balance it out" or do you just vote zero points and not pay attention to the previous voter? Is it even worth voting at all if you think it's tied?

I say vote with however many point you feel each debater deserves, not how may points you feel the debate deserves. While you may not be swayed by their arguments, another person has been and deserves to have their vote made.
It's just over-all unfair to the voters.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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9/12/2011 4:36:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
There is no such thing as a tie in debate. I think regarding the convincing argument point, you should just force yourself to pick a true winner. In competitive debate, if you're judging, you're not allowed to award ties.

However, if you really think it's a tie, how another judge voted should never affect the way you vote.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)