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Survey for next round of updates

Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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9/12/2011 4:44:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
http://Ore-Ele.polldaddy.com...

This is just a survey for some potential ideas for Juggle. Before pitching anything to them, it is good to have an idea on the community support for it (or if the community does not support it, not to waste time pitching it). So please hit this survey.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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9/12/2011 4:52:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Just took it.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/12/2011 4:55:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Excellent idea.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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9/12/2011 5:08:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Also, for clarification.

With the "same time" debates and "anonymous" debates, those would not replace the current format, they would be additional options (much like you can select if you want to make RFDs required or not).

Also, please use the comments at the end of each question.

Thanks so much.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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9/12/2011 5:47:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/12/2011 5:42:29 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Thanks everyone, I'm loving the comments.

Just took it earlier and those are some really good ideas you put out there man.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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9/12/2011 5:48:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I do like the ideas presented in the updates, Ore_Ele...I know that my comments were brief but I commend you for your proposals in the survey.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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9/12/2011 6:42:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
In addition to going through and voting on these, I'd love for us to actually discuss them in this thread. Maybe think of ways to make them better, point out the pros and cons for each, and what nots.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
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9/12/2011 6:55:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
They wouldn't.

Pro (the instigator) would post R1, as just an intro and definition and wait for someone to accept the debate. Con (the contender) would post their R1 as acceptance and any additional definitions. At that point, both are able to post their R2 in their own time. But neither's argument would be visable until both submitted their R2, of which both would then move to R3 (and repeat).

So, for both contestents, R1 is for acceptance and definitions. R2 is for opening arguments (no rebuttals). R3 is for rebuttal to your opponent's R2 arguments. R4 is to defend yourself from their R3 rebuttal.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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9/12/2011 8:59:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Took the survey.

I see you have a method for countering the last-word advantage. Does that mean that you now believe that there is indeed an advantage?
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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9/12/2011 9:22:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I seemed to me the questions were mainly aimed at converting a debate site into a social networking site. That's the wrong direction.

It would be better to have asked about:

1. Adding Elo ranking in a leaderboard column
2. Automating tournaments with site software
3. Adding a grammar checker
4. Adding tutorial features
5. Adding software to suggest opponents and topics

Stuff like that ...
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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9/13/2011 2:04:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/12/2011 9:22:46 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I seemed to me the questions were mainly aimed at converting a debate site into a social networking site. That's the wrong direction.

I only think that 1 question was a move towards social networking (the one of the chat room), 1 was about user mods, 1 was moving back towards debating (getting the side bar in the forums that listed open and recently finished debates), and 2 were about new features to the debate side (same time and anonymous).


It would be better to have asked about:

1. Adding Elo ranking in a leaderboard column

ELO has been asked, supported heavily by the members, but Juggle still said no. I'll get back to beating that dead horse sometime in the future.

2. Automating tournaments with site software
3. Adding a grammar checker
4. Adding tutorial features
5. Adding software to suggest opponents and topics

Stuff like that ...

I'll add those into the next survey that I do.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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9/14/2011 1:19:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Okay, we broke the 30 vote threshold that I was aiming for. I'm going to leave this up for a few more hours and post the results by the end of the day (though I won't have screen shots).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
blackhawk1331
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9/14/2011 3:22:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/12/2011 5:54:59 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
I just took it. I like adding recent debates to a sidebar, but I want to keep the front page too.

This.
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena
BangBang-Coconut
Posts: 265
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9/14/2011 9:10:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/12/2011 6:49:48 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
On the same-time debates, how would Con respond to Pro's round 2 rebuttal without seeing it?

I agree, it seems like it would take all actual debate out of the debate.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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9/15/2011 11:41:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Anonymous Debating - 40 votes

SS (Strong Support) - 35%
KS (Kinda Support) - 27.5%
NO (No Opinion) - 10%
KA (Kinda Against) - 15%
SA (Strong Against) - 12.5%

Total support - against, 62.5% - 27.5%, 35 point lead.

Key comments for -

"It makes sense. If the names are anonymous, then you can't vote for or against someone based on who they are. Wether or not the debate is anonymous definitely has to optional, though."

"It should be allowed as an option if the instigator feels that there may be some sort of bias against him."

Key comments against -

"I feel this in part takes the character out of this site. It is always interesting to see members "going at it" knowing what arguments they have made in the past. It's positive sides are well understood but it simply makes things less interesting. It also adds to the problem of indefinite or long voting periods."

"Great idea from a debate and voting point of view,however I don't fully support it. As I do find some debaters here a little more entertaining than others,doing this would make it difficult to follow favoured debaters in the midst of battle."

"Biased voters mostly vote on the guy who argues for the resolution they believe in. They don't vote on the guy they like. Anonymous debating would not be very anonymous regardless of the term we use to describe such a system. Not many people argue for Shari'a - we know who does. Many of the minority debaters would not be anonymous even if they wanted to be (in a debate). So there's no need for anonymous debates."

Ore_Ele's comments - What I find interesting is that while the voting itself seems largely infavor of making this an option (not removing the current option, just expanding new options), the comments are actually evenly divided. I suppose this would be expected, since people that don't support it or more likely to state why they don't support it, while people that do will just give the thumbs up.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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9/15/2011 11:49:08 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Same Time debates - 39 votes

SS - 23.08%
KS - 35.90%
NO - 17.95%
KA - 17.95%
SA - 5.13%

Total support - against, 58.98% - 24.08% (34.90 point spread).

Key comments for -

"That sounds good. I personally hate starting the debate because my opponent will et the last word in. This way, both sides are equal when writing a debate. The last person to go can't argue the first person's closing statements."

"Good option.Quickens the debate,without reducing the reply time.Less waiting around for a reply before one can answer.Great idea."

"This would work great. I know that I usually win debates where I have the last word and lose them when I don't. It is a great equalizer."

Key comments against -

"I honestly feel that the same time debate really wouldn't be an effective debate at all. As well, I think the last word problem isn't a problem at all."

"I love reading how the contenders deal with eachothers arguments and find this to be what makes debates interesting. An option like this creates a "duel debate" where it sounds like you have two different debates going on at once."

"I don't see an advantage, but it degrades the back and forth element of debate. Maybe it works for some topics."

Ore_Ele's notes -

Based on the comments, it seems as though the concept is a little difficult to understand. If both posters post their opening arguments in R2, then they both do rebuttals in their R3, and they both do counter-rebuttals in R4. What you no longer have, is the option of the contender never presenting an opening argument and just doing rebuttals and refutations. Naturally, this would not work for every type of debate, but would work for something like an X vs Y debate, rather than X vs not X.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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9/15/2011 11:55:56 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
User Mods - 40 votes

Yes, appointed by Juggle - 40%
Yes, appointed by DDO members - 30%
No, not needed - 20%
No, user mods not going to be fair enough - 5%
No opinion - 5%

Ore_Ele's notes - Many of the comments seem targeted towards individuals (both in positive lights and negative), so I'm not going to post those (because they'll only cause drama, though if people want some of them posted, I will). Most comments seemed to believe that it should be a balance of appointed by Juggle and DDO members, with more weight towards Juggle having the final say.

I suppose this could be done by having the community pick a list of individuals that they would approve of and Juggle could make the final pick from that list, though this has been run by Juggle before, so I don't know if any action will be taken. But, it doesn't hurt to keep pressure on.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
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9/15/2011 12:01:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
DDO Chat Box - 41 votes

SS - 31.71%
KS - 17.07%
NO - 19.51%
KA - 21.95%
SA - 9.76%

Total support - against, 48.78% - 31.71% (17.07 point spread).

Favorite comment - "Meh"

Key comments for -

"This would be fun. We could talk about whatever (with everyone) while doing other things. With the 1 on 1 or groups, it would be like PMs but you don't have to to to the messages section to see it."

"At this point I don't see how people can be against new optional features."

"This is something I see brought up every once in a while, and it would be fun to have."

Key comments against -

"There are profile comments, private messages, random threads, etc., which can all be used for "chat." There's no need to make debate.org a Facebook kitten. Those who like each other so much that they want to chat already do that through Facebook or PM. Go check."

"Ddo needs to focus more on upping site quality like more voting, elo ranking, etc. If people want a chat box they should go to a social networking site."

"Degrades the site in favor trying to compete with facebook. the site should focus on debate. not chat and games."

Ore_Ele notes - There are a lot of undecided and those against it. I'll probably still mention this to Juggle, though with only a 17 point spread, they'll likely opt for different improvements and I won't be pushing this one. Kind of glad though.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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9/15/2011 12:07:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Recent Debates section - 41 votes

SS - 43.90%
KS - 31.71%
NO - 14.63%
KA - 7.32%
SA - 2.44%

Total support - against, 75.61% - 9.76% (65.85 point spread)

Key comments for -

"At first I didn't like it, but the logic behind the idea is sound, and it would probably help with debates. Both in voting and in getting acceptances."

"I like the idea as a rule however ,somewhat discrete would be good,might be a little distracting otherwise but on the whole,being kept up to date on all fronts would be good."

"More debate visibility, particularly to members who currently spend all their time on the forums."

"Exactly what you said in the OP, members spend more time in the forums than on the homepage. This would provide an increase in debating and in voting (though displaying recently ended debates in a way that people will actually see them). Great idea!"

Key comments against -

"Hate sidebars and popups like the plague. It would be extremely annoying. Part of why we like DDO so much is that there are no ads, no commercials, no crap."

"Wouldn't help, and would clutter up the site."

Ore_Ele's notes - It seems like the vast majority of DDO members support this, but thanks to the comments, there were some interesting things pointed out to make it better, such as "There could perhaps be an option to remove a debate from the sidebar, because after I decided that I don't want to read a debate, I needn't be reminded of it." And it seems that most supporters' biggest concern is how it is done, that it needs to be visually appealing and not some big ugly duck.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"