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How do you read a debate before voting?

F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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9/16/2011 11:14:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Pretty much what the title says: how do you read? Do you read every word in the debate or do you skim? Do you make sure you remember every argument or do you just focus on the most interesting argument? How likely are you to forget an argument when it is dropped as opposed to consciously remembering that it was dropped and docking points?
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/16/2011 11:20:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I think it's best to vote on debates with clear outlines of cases, such as labeling them numerically or alphabetically. When they don't do that, it usually means that there is only one argument(which means theres no reason to label them), or it's a noobish debate(which also means generally shorter sections, making it easier to remember).
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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9/16/2011 11:43:47 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I only vote if I read every word. If I skim I'm going to miss several key arguments. Plus its rude to the debaters who spent a lot of time developing all these points to just ignore half of them.

As far as concessions go, drops are a big issue. I'd say that most of my RFD's are based on arguments that weren't answered. If an argument isn't responded to then I dont see any way it doesn't go to the one who made it.

Though, if I see a wall o' text, I'll instantly give the other side grammar, and be less tempted to really read it.
devinni01841
Posts: 1,405
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9/16/2011 11:54:46 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/16/2011 11:14:05 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Pretty much what the title says: how do you read? Do you read every word in the debate or do you skim? Do you make sure you remember every argument or do you just focus on the most interesting argument? How likely are you to forget an argument when it is dropped as opposed to consciously remembering that it was dropped and docking points?

Well it helps to learn to read first....

Just kidding, if a debate has short arguments I'll read the whole thing, if it's longer I skim it. At that point I'm looking at organization of the argument, as well as how convincing it is. If I can't find your different points and sources quickly, I lose interest.
if an argument is dropped, the importance of the point determines whether or not I remember it. (For example, if, in a debate about making felons mandatory organ donors someone brings up human rights in their first, but forgets to carry it into others, I will definitely dock points for that.) If they conceed a point, I might dock points, but if it's less relevant I usually ignore it.
There is nothing more bad-@ss than being yourself.

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Member of the Texas Army National Guard since 20111212

An Armed society is a polite society.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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9/16/2011 11:57:33 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/16/2011 11:43:47 AM, BlackVoid wrote:
I only vote if I read every word. If I skim I'm going to miss several key arguments. Plus its rude to the debaters who spent a lot of time developing all these points to just ignore half of them.

As far as concessions go, drops are a big issue. I'd say that most of my RFD's are based on arguments that weren't answered. If an argument isn't responded to then I dont see any way it doesn't go to the one who made it.

Though, if I see a wall o' text, I'll instantly give the other side grammar, and be less tempted to really read it.

I actually agree with everything you said. Yes, it is okay to skim but skimmers shouldn't vote as the voting wouldn't be fair.
devinni01841
Posts: 1,405
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9/16/2011 12:04:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/16/2011 11:54:46 AM, devinni01841 wrote:
At 9/16/2011 11:14:05 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Pretty much what the title says: how do you read? Do you read every word in the debate or do you skim? Do you make sure you remember every argument or do you just focus on the most interesting argument? How likely are you to forget an argument when it is dropped as opposed to consciously remembering that it was dropped and docking points?

Well it helps to learn to read first....

Just kidding, if a debate has short arguments I'll read the whole thing, if it's longer I skim it. At that point I'm looking at organization of the argument, as well as how convincing it is. If I can't find your different points and sources quickly, I lose interest.
if an argument is dropped, the importance of the point determines whether or not I remember it. (For example, if, in a debate about making felons mandatory organ donors someone brings up human rights in their first, but forgets to carry it into others, I will definitely dock points for that.) If they conceed a point, I might dock points, but if it's less relevant I usually ignore it.

i'll only vote on debates that I skim if the arguments were organized so that I could find all the different points and sources easily.
There is nothing more bad-@ss than being yourself.

I solemnly swear I am up to no good.

Member of the Texas Army National Guard since 20111212

An Armed society is a polite society.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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9/16/2011 12:08:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I read through twice. The first time, I start by reading the R1 for both to get definitions. I'll read the entire first argument (usually instigator R2), and when I go to the contender's R2, I'll read through the arguments, but as soon as I believe that they've addressed the arguments properly, I skip forward to the next round. If the don't answer the arguments sufficiently at all, I'll actually skip to thier next round (skipping Instigator R3) to see if they ever get back to them. I'll often bounce back around, reading each chain of arguments through. So if the present five points in their agruments (let's call them P1 - P5), I'll read like this, where I = instigator, and C = contender (IR2.P1, CR2.P1, IR3.P1, CR3.P1, IR4.P1, CR4.P1, then go to the next argument point, IR2.P2, CR2.P2, etc).

Then I'll go back and read the entire thing straight through, just to get a feel of the flow and see if there is anything I missed.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Raisor
Posts: 4,459
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9/16/2011 1:20:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Almost all the debates on this site are simple enough that they dont require notes.

My basic process is this:
1) Read debate.
2) Determine voting paradigm
3) Make preliminary judgment based on voting pardigm.
4) Skim debate to compare prelim judgment to arguments
5) Revise paradigm/decision if needed
6) Repeat 3-5 until satisfied
7) Vote

There are a lot of little things going on within those larger steps.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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9/16/2011 7:57:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/16/2011 12:08:22 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I read through twice. The first time, I start by reading the R1 for both to get definitions. I'll read the entire first argument (usually instigator R2), and when I go to the contender's R2, I'll read through the arguments, but as soon as I believe that they've addressed the arguments properly, I skip forward to the next round. If the don't answer the arguments sufficiently at all, I'll actually skip to thier next round (skipping Instigator R3) to see if they ever get back to them. I'll often bounce back around, reading each chain of arguments through. So if the present five points in their agruments (let's call them P1 - P5), I'll read like this, where I = instigator, and C = contender (IR2.P1, CR2.P1, IR3.P1, CR3.P1, IR4.P1, CR4.P1, then go to the next argument point, IR2.P2, CR2.P2, etc).

Then I'll go back and read the entire thing straight through, just to get a feel of the flow and see if there is anything I missed.

Really, it must take you quite a while to read it, though your's is probably the fairest way to eveluate.
Raisor
Posts: 4,459
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9/16/2011 8:23:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/16/2011 12:08:22 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I read through twice. The first time, I start by reading the R1 for both to get definitions. I'll read the entire first argument (usually instigator R2), and when I go to the contender's R2, I'll read through the arguments, but as soon as I believe that they've addressed the arguments properly, I skip forward to the next round. If the don't answer the arguments sufficiently at all, I'll actually skip to thier next round (skipping Instigator R3) to see if they ever get back to them. I'll often bounce back around, reading each chain of arguments through. So if the present five points in their agruments (let's call them P1 - P5), I'll read like this, where I = instigator, and C = contender (IR2.P1, CR2.P1, IR3.P1, CR3.P1, IR4.P1, CR4.P1, then go to the next argument point, IR2.P2, CR2.P2, etc).

Then I'll go back and read the entire thing straight through, just to get a feel of the flow and see if there is anything I missed.

Im curious, does this mean you dont read everything written?

If in my P1 I address my opponent's points and then tack on a case turn, does that mean you dont read my case turn?

Also when you say you skip rounds to see if "they ever get back to them," what happens if they dont get back to them? What if I made a point in a round you skip that is relevent to other arguments? E.g. if an argument goes IR1.P1, Cr1.P1,Cr2.P1,CR3.P1 and in CR3.P1 and in CR3.P1 the argument is made that by wining P1, Con mitigates the effects of I winning P2. Does that get missed?
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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9/17/2011 2:59:53 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
It really depends. If I find the debate interesting then I will read every word. If I don't find it interesting I will normally skim through and pick apart a few arguments I feel make the difference in the debate. From there I will decide who I think won, then challenge myself to find arguments by the opposite contender that should overturn that decision. If I can not find anything then I will make sure I read the original arguments correctly and cast my vote. If I find something I think should turn my decision then I start the process over with the opposite contender. I keep doing this until I have a clear winner.

It seems a little silly but if I try to read debates I don't find interesting straight through I lose focus. This back and fourth method is much more interactive and keeps me focused, and if the debate is close I will wind up reading the arguments two or three times before voting so I make sure I get it right (in my humble opinion).