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Question to Juggle: First Round Forfeit

Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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9/25/2011 12:00:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
In every single debate I have witnessed and participated in on DDO, if the instigator starts a debate, and a challenger accepts but fails to post a first round argument in time, then the entire debate is scrapped (canceled) and the instigator must start a new debate. I believe every member can attest to this. Yet there is a debate in which I failed to post a first round argument, yet the debate proceeded. In fact, my opponent (who did not provide an argument in R1) nor myself posted anything throughout the entire debate. Why was this debate not scrapped due to my first round forfeit? Just wondering.

http://www.debate.org...
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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/25/2011 12:05:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Because, Danielle, this website has no mods, and the whoever is in charge of this here establishment, probably forgets it even exists. People vote on stupid debates that do not require votes. People also vote stupidly to the wrong side. The crux of this dilemma lies in the still unperfected method of voting here at DDO, and merely asking Juggle about it, probably will not solve it or prevent such scenarios from happening in the future.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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9/25/2011 12:07:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 12:05:30 PM, 000ike wrote:
Because, Danielle, this website has no mods, and the whoever is in charge of this here establishment, probably forgets it even exists. People vote on stupid debates that do not require votes. People also vote stupidly to the wrong side. The crux of this dilemma lies in the still unperfected method of voting here at DDO, and merely asking Juggle about it, probably will not solve it or prevent such scenarios from happening in the future.

Or in a simpler way, voting and debating guidelines might have changed....Currently, debates may have been closed if the contender forfeit his first round, though it might be possible that it was different 'back then'...

This is similar to the fact that while older debates tend to have members being capable of voting for themselves, newer debates are entirely closed for its own participants to vote on...

Or there could be some other reason...
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/25/2011 12:11:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I am interested though to see how this battle between Danielle and F-16 will play out. I believe this is a contest for erasing the wrongs of DDO past, but perhaps that is a futile and vain effort.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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9/25/2011 12:17:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 12:11:29 PM, 000ike wrote:
I am interested though to see how this battle between Danielle and F-16 will play out. I believe this is a contest for erasing the wrongs of DDO past, but perhaps that is a futile and vain effort.

To be honest, the site was far better in my opinion years ago than now. There was more voting (and vote-bombing), participation in the forums and debates, and so on.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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9/25/2011 12:23:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 12:17:24 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 9/25/2011 12:11:29 PM, 000ike wrote:
I am interested though to see how this battle between Danielle and F-16 will play out. I believe this is a contest for erasing the wrongs of DDO past, but perhaps that is a futile and vain effort.

To be honest, the site was far better in my opinion years ago than now. There was more voting (and vote-bombing), participation in the forums and debates, and so on.

Quality over quantity imo.
000ike
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9/25/2011 12:24:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 12:17:24 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 9/25/2011 12:11:29 PM, 000ike wrote:
I am interested though to see how this battle between Danielle and F-16 will play out. I believe this is a contest for erasing the wrongs of DDO past, but perhaps that is a futile and vain effort.

To be honest, the site was far better in my opinion years ago than now. There was more voting (and vote-bombing), participation in the forums and debates, and so on.

Quality is superior to Quantity. The members of the past behaved like a bunch of immature kids on facebook. They would form resolutions to target and votebomb certain members that they did not like, and would form cooperative teams of vote skewers to support and bomb their friends into victory. The forums were a place of harassment, one girl was literally bullied until she disconnected her account, and even after she left, they continued to make a discuss about her in the forum saying horrible things like expecting her to die. Askbob would divulge the private information of anyone he did not like. The debate results were inaccurate and reflected nothing of the quality of the arguments. (accumulated account from several members over the past 2 months)

Is this the DDO you like? Is this the DDO you condone? Is this the DDO you want?....
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Man-is-good
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9/25/2011 12:26:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 12:24:29 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/25/2011 12:17:24 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 9/25/2011 12:11:29 PM, 000ike wrote:
I am interested though to see how this battle between Danielle and F-16 will play out. I believe this is a contest for erasing the wrongs of DDO past, but perhaps that is a futile and vain effort.

To be honest, the site was far better in my opinion years ago than now. There was more voting (and vote-bombing), participation in the forums and debates, and so on.

Quality is superior to Quantity. The members of the past behaved like a bunch of immature kids on facebook. They would form resolutions to target and votebomb certain members that they did not like, and would form cooperative teams of vote skewers to support and bomb their friends into victory. The forums were a place of harassment, one girl was literally bullied until she disconnected her account, and even after she left, they continued to make a discuss about her in the forum saying horrible things like expecting her to die. Askbob would divulge the private information of anyone he did not like. The debate results were inaccurate and reflected nothing of the quality of the arguments. (accumulated account from several members over the past 2 months)

Is this the DDO you like? Is this the DDO you condone? Is this the DDO you want?....

No I do not, but I do not condone the current level of inactivity either...
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/25/2011 12:32:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 12:26:57 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 9/25/2011 12:24:29 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/25/2011 12:17:24 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 9/25/2011 12:11:29 PM, 000ike wrote:
I am interested though to see how this battle between Danielle and F-16 will play out. I believe this is a contest for erasing the wrongs of DDO past, but perhaps that is a futile and vain effort.

To be honest, the site was far better in my opinion years ago than now. There was more voting (and vote-bombing), participation in the forums and debates, and so on.

Quality is superior to Quantity. The members of the past behaved like a bunch of immature kids on facebook. They would form resolutions to target and votebomb certain members that they did not like, and would form cooperative teams of vote skewers to support and bomb their friends into victory. The forums were a place of harassment, one girl was literally bullied until she disconnected her account, and even after she left, they continued to make a discuss about her in the forum saying horrible things like expecting her to die. Askbob would divulge the private information of anyone he did not like. The debate results were inaccurate and reflected nothing of the quality of the arguments. (accumulated account from several members over the past 2 months)

Is this the DDO you like? Is this the DDO you condone? Is this the DDO you want?....

No I do not, but I do not condone the current level of inactivity either...

This level of inactivity is characteristic of EVERY website during the back-to-school month of september, and an improved but still stagnant influx of members until summer vacation. People have gone back to their lives, their too busy to be on DDO. I try personally to stay online while still doing other things. The inactivity is normal, and it is expected, since debate or even arguing for that matter is not a large online commodity. Few people come here, and only a fraction of the few people that come here, stay here.

This is a blessing in disguise, as like a seive, DDO retains the serious intellectuals, and the non-serious get bored and leave.

I see no problem as of yet with our members. The problem I see is with our host/hostess, the inactivity of the moderators and administrators is inexcusable and sort of gives insult to the site as a whole.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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9/25/2011 12:35:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 12:32:29 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/25/2011 12:26:57 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 9/25/2011 12:24:29 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/25/2011 12:17:24 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 9/25/2011 12:11:29 PM, 000ike wrote:
I am interested though to see how this battle between Danielle and F-16 will play out. I believe this is a contest for erasing the wrongs of DDO past, but perhaps that is a futile and vain effort.

To be honest, the site was far better in my opinion years ago than now. There was more voting (and vote-bombing), participation in the forums and debates, and so on.

Quality is superior to Quantity. The members of the past behaved like a bunch of immature kids on facebook. They would form resolutions to target and votebomb certain members that they did not like, and would form cooperative teams of vote skewers to support and bomb their friends into victory. The forums were a place of harassment, one girl was literally bullied until she disconnected her account, and even after she left, they continued to make a discuss about her in the forum saying horrible things like expecting her to die. Askbob would divulge the private information of anyone he did not like. The debate results were inaccurate and reflected nothing of the quality of the arguments. (accumulated account from several members over the past 2 months)

Is this the DDO you like? Is this the DDO you condone? Is this the DDO you want?....

No I do not, but I do not condone the current level of inactivity either...

This level of inactivity is characteristic of EVERY website during the back-to-school month of september, and an improved but still stagnant influx of members until summer vacation. People have gone back to their lives, their too busy to be on DDO. I try personally to stay online while still doing other things. The inactivity is normal, and it is expected, since debate or even arguing for that matter is not a large online commodity. Few people come here, and only a fraction of the few people that come here, stay here.

This is a blessing in disguise, as like a seive, DDO retains the serious intellectuals, and the non-serious get bored and leave.

I see no problem as of yet with our members. The problem I see is with our host/hostess, the inactivity of the moderators and administrators is inexcusable and sort of gives insult to the site as a whole.

Yes, I do concede that DDO has improved a bit in terms of fair voting (seeing members vote-bomb on evolution, religious, pro-/anti-life debates, and so on) though I still miss many of the members who left DDO: Cliff.Stamp, J.Kenyon, and others who were sound additions to the site...
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/25/2011 12:40:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Man-is-good wrote:
Yes, I do concede that DDO has improved a bit in terms of fair voting (seeing
members vote-bomb on evolution, religious, pro-/anti-life debates, and so on) though : I still miss many of the members who left DDO: Cliff.Stamp, J.Kenyon, and others who were sound additions to the site...

Sound being subjective, from my understanding of these Ancaps, they were only "sound" individuals so long as you were in their light of favor. That does not constitute a good, nor sound member of this site.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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9/25/2011 12:47:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 12:11:29 PM, 000ike wrote:
I am interested though to see how this battle between Danielle and F-16 will play out. I believe this is a contest for erasing the wrongs of DDO past, but perhaps that is a futile and vain effort.

000ike, Danielle is strawmanning my position by pointing out the debates where her opponent forfeited. Once everyone believes that she rightfully voted for herself, they will counter all debates including the ones that were close. This was her plan all along. I advice anyone who counter to see not if Danielle would have won but to see if it is obvious. If it is not obvious, her votes were votebombs.
Man-is-good
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9/25/2011 12:50:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 12:40:15 PM, 000ike wrote:
Man-is-good wrote:
Yes, I do concede that DDO has improved a bit in terms of fair voting (seeing
members vote-bomb on evolution, religious, pro-/anti-life debates, and so on) though : I still miss many of the members who left DDO: Cliff.Stamp, J.Kenyon, and others who were sound additions to the site...

Sound being subjective, from my understanding of these Ancaps, they were only "sound" individuals so long as you were in their light of favor. That does not constitute a good, nor sound member of this site.

This is still a subjective comment in your own right if you wish to judge them as sound or not...
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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9/25/2011 12:51:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 12:50:44 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 9/25/2011 12:40:15 PM, 000ike wrote:
Man-is-good wrote:
Yes, I do concede that DDO has improved a bit in terms of fair voting (seeing
members vote-bomb on evolution, religious, pro-/anti-life debates, and so on) though : I still miss many of the members who left DDO: Cliff.Stamp, J.Kenyon, and others who were sound additions to the site...

Sound being subjective, from my understanding of these Ancaps, they were only "sound" individuals so long as you were in their light of favor. That does not constitute a good, nor sound member of this site.

This is still a subjective comment in your own right if you wish to judge them as sound or not...

Hear-hear!
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/25/2011 12:57:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 12:47:46 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 9/25/2011 12:11:29 PM, 000ike wrote:
I am interested though to see how this battle between Danielle and F-16 will play out. I believe this is a contest for erasing the wrongs of DDO past, but perhaps that is a futile and vain effort.

000ike, Danielle is strawmanning my position by pointing out the debates where her opponent forfeited. Once everyone believes that she rightfully voted for herself, they will counter all debates including the ones that were close. This was her plan all along. I advice anyone who counter to see not if Danielle would have won but to see if it is obvious. If it is not obvious, her votes were votebombs.

Okay, lets go through them shall we?

1. http://www.debate.org... Danielle obviously won. I know you gave her the 3 pts, but giving her opponent Conduct was surely a symbolic display of personal opposition.

2. http://www.debate.org... Danielle obviously won. Her opponent forfeited 3 rounds. I've seen your votes before F-16, when someone forfeits even 1 round, you basically give all 7 points to the other guy. By your own voting philosophy, Danielle deserved the 5 points she gave to herself, and more. Why then do you counter her own justified vote?

3. http://www.debate.org... I side with F-16 here. Danielle votebombed herself to victory. Thett should remove his counter-counter-votebomb.

4. http://www.debate.org... Danielle obviously won. Her opponent made a 1 round debate and wrote only about 2 sentences. Thats debate suicide. Plus those sentences made no sense.

Okay so Its Danielle: 3, F-16: 1.

Perhaps you have more debates to show, otherwise, F-16, you lose.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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9/25/2011 12:58:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
That debate hasn't been updated in three years, which was before the first-round forfeit policy. The current moderators were never in charge at that time.

It would have been unfair to immediately delete all debates in which the first round was forfeited, because some of those debates probably did have activity in future rounds.

Why did it take so long to point this out, though?
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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9/25/2011 1:00:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
This question had absolutely nothing to do with F16. It is a legitimate question I'm wondering about. I'm taking any voting issues I have up with Juggle, and feel no reason to divulge anything publicly for now unless specifically asked. People are free to vote any way they want.
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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9/25/2011 1:02:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 12:57:34 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/25/2011 12:47:46 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 9/25/2011 12:11:29 PM, 000ike wrote:
I am interested though to see how this battle between Danielle and F-16 will play out. I believe this is a contest for erasing the wrongs of DDO past, but perhaps that is a futile and vain effort.

000ike, Danielle is strawmanning my position by pointing out the debates where her opponent forfeited. Once everyone believes that she rightfully voted for herself, they will counter all debates including the ones that were close. This was her plan all along. I advice anyone who counter to see not if Danielle would have won but to see if it is obvious. If it is not obvious, her votes were votebombs.

Okay, lets go through them shall we?

1. http://www.debate.org... Danielle obviously won. I know you gave her the 3 pts, but giving her opponent Conduct was surely a symbolic display of personal opposition.

2. http://www.debate.org... Danielle obviously won. Her opponent forfeited 3 rounds. I've seen your votes before F-16, when someone forfeits even 1 round, you basically give all 7 points to the other guy. By your own voting philosophy, Danielle deserved the 5 points she gave to herself, and more. Why then do you counter her own justified vote?

3. http://www.debate.org... I side with F-16 here. Danielle votebombed herself to victory. Thett should remove his counter-counter-votebomb.

4. http://www.debate.org... Danielle obviously won. Her opponent made a 1 round debate and wrote only about 2 sentences. Thats debate suicide. Plus those sentences made no sense.

Okay so Its Danielle: 3, F-16: 1.

Perhaps you have more debates to show, otherwise, F-16, you lose.

If you really want more then you can look at these.

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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9/25/2011 1:03:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
00ike and F-16, can you please read the debates and decide who won before 'countering Danielle's vote bomb'?
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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9/25/2011 1:06:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 1:03:55 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
00ike and F-16, can you please read the debates and decide who won before 'countering Danielle's vote bomb'?

Don't blame 000ike. I was the only one that did the countering.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/25/2011 1:07:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 1:02:41 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 9/25/2011 12:57:34 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/25/2011 12:47:46 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 9/25/2011 12:11:29 PM, 000ike wrote:
I am interested though to see how this battle between Danielle and F-16 will play out. I believe this is a contest for erasing the wrongs of DDO past, but perhaps that is a futile and vain effort.

000ike, Danielle is strawmanning my position by pointing out the debates where her opponent forfeited. Once everyone believes that she rightfully voted for herself, they will counter all debates including the ones that were close. This was her plan all along. I advice anyone who counter to see not if Danielle would have won but to see if it is obvious. If it is not obvious, her votes were votebombs.

Okay, lets go through them shall we?

1. http://www.debate.org... Danielle obviously won. I know you gave her the 3 pts, but giving her opponent Conduct was surely a symbolic display of personal opposition.

2. http://www.debate.org... Danielle obviously won. Her opponent forfeited 3 rounds. I've seen your votes before F-16, when someone forfeits even 1 round, you basically give all 7 points to the other guy. By your own voting philosophy, Danielle deserved the 5 points she gave to herself, and more. Why then do you counter her own justified vote?

3. http://www.debate.org... I side with F-16 here. Danielle votebombed herself to victory. Thett should remove his counter-counter-votebomb.

4. http://www.debate.org... Danielle obviously won. Her opponent made a 1 round debate and wrote only about 2 sentences. Thats debate suicide. Plus those sentences made no sense.

Okay so Its Danielle: 3, F-16: 1.

Perhaps you have more debates to show, otherwise, F-16, you lose.

If you really want more then you can look at these.

5. http://www.debate.org... Danielle did not votebomb herself. It was a different environment back then, and it was accpetable to vote for oneself, albeit it is done in a rational manner. She gave herself 3 pts. You did not need to counter that.

http://www.debate.org... Extend the same reasoning, Danielle was justified because voting for oneself was acceptable. Unless you plan on policing EVERYONE who voted for themselves in that time period where it was allowed, it is unfair for you to specifically target Danielle.

Danielle: 5 F-16: 1
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Danielle
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9/25/2011 1:09:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 1:06:02 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Don't blame 000ike. I was the only one that did the countering.

That's not true and I've proven that you via pm, but feel no need to embarrass you publicly.

Like I said, I'm taking any issues I have up with Juggle. Everyone is free to do the same. Let's not derail this thread.
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OMGJustinBieber
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9/25/2011 1:26:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 12:40:15 PM, 000ike wrote:
Man-is-good wrote:
Yes, I do concede that DDO has improved a bit in terms of fair voting (seeing
members vote-bomb on evolution, religious, pro-/anti-life debates, and so on) though : I still miss many of the members who left DDO: Cliff.Stamp, J.Kenyon, and others who were sound additions to the site...

Sound being subjective, from my understanding of these Ancaps, they were only "sound" individuals so long as you were in their light of favor. That does not constitute a good, nor sound member of this site.

Cliff.Stamp's departure left a hole in my heart.
phantom
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9/25/2011 1:37:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 12:00:50 PM, Danielle wrote:
In every single debate I have witnessed and participated in on DDO, if the instigator starts a debate, and a challenger accepts but fails to post a first round argument in time, then the entire debate is scrapped (canceled) and the instigator must start a new debate. I believe every member can attest to this.

I actually had no idea that happened 0_o.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
thett3
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9/25/2011 1:53:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/25/2011 12:57:34 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/25/2011 12:47:46 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 9/25/2011 12:11:29 PM, 000ike wrote:
I am interested though to see how this battle between Danielle and F-16 will play out. I believe this is a contest for erasing the wrongs of DDO past, but perhaps that is a futile and vain effort.

000ike, Danielle is strawmanning my position by pointing out the debates where her opponent forfeited. Once everyone believes that she rightfully voted for herself, they will counter all debates including the ones that were close. This was her plan all along. I advice anyone who counter to see not if Danielle would have won but to see if it is obvious. If it is not obvious, her votes were votebombs.

Okay, lets go through them shall we?

1. http://www.debate.org... Danielle obviously won. I know you gave her the 3 pts, but giving her opponent Conduct was surely a symbolic display of personal opposition.

2. http://www.debate.org... Danielle obviously won. Her opponent forfeited 3 rounds. I've seen your votes before F-16, when someone forfeits even 1 round, you basically give all 7 points to the other guy. By your own voting philosophy, Danielle deserved the 5 points she gave to herself, and more. Why then do you counter her own justified vote?

3. http://www.debate.org... I side with F-16 here. Danielle votebombed herself to victory. Thett should remove his counter-counter-votebomb.

4. http://www.debate.org... Danielle obviously won. Her opponent made a 1 round debate and wrote only about 2 sentences. Thats debate suicide. Plus those sentences made no sense.

Okay so Its Danielle: 3, F-16: 1.

Perhaps you have more debates to show, otherwise, F-16, you lose.

I'm not removing my counter.Read the debate, the winner is clear. Plus he forfeited.
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"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right