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Changing Views?

Mr.Infidel
Posts: 300
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10/24/2011 9:58:26 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Have you ever changed your views as a result of a debate?

Here are exampels where I changed a few views:

1) Davididit v. Kohai (me): Abortion if Prime Facia Morally Wrong

2) Mr.Infidel v. Reformed Arsenal: The Stone Paradox is Valid
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Raisor
Posts: 4,460
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10/24/2011 10:07:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I cant think of a time any single debate has changed my views. The research and discussion surrounding debates certainly have.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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10/26/2011 12:40:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Never on the big issues. But on smaller ones, definitely. Unlike Raisor ^, my views usually don't change because of research. Many of the big issues such as whether or not the Death Penalty should be implemented come from a deep moral or emotional standpoint, and throwing a bunch of stats saying that the DP prevents murder is not going to change my mind. However, a coherent, well-written debate on a minor topic might be enough to change my views on that topic.
Mr.Infidel
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10/26/2011 12:45:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/26/2011 12:40:57 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Never on the big issues. But on smaller ones, definitely. Unlike Raisor ^, my views usually don't change because of research. Many of the big issues such as whether or not the Death Penalty should be implemented come from a deep moral or emotional standpoint, and throwing a bunch of stats saying that the DP prevents murder is not going to change my mind. However, a coherent, well-written debate on a minor topic might be enough to change my views on that topic.

Agreed. There are some issues (like Civil Unions and SSM) I will NEVER change my views on. Simply put, CU is a form of "separate but equal" while SSM has many benefits.
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Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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10/26/2011 12:47:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I haven't ever been completely changed from a pro or con perspective to the opposite side, however some debates (1)have made me somewhat uncertain about my side:

DP w/ F-16
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innomen
Posts: 10,052
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10/26/2011 12:50:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/26/2011 12:45:38 PM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
At 10/26/2011 12:40:57 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Never on the big issues. But on smaller ones, definitely. Unlike Raisor ^, my views usually don't change because of research. Many of the big issues such as whether or not the Death Penalty should be implemented come from a deep moral or emotional standpoint, and throwing a bunch of stats saying that the DP prevents murder is not going to change my mind. However, a coherent, well-written debate on a minor topic might be enough to change my views on that topic.

Agreed. There are some issues (like Civil Unions and SSM) I will NEVER change my views on. Simply put, CU is a form of "separate but equal" while SSM has many benefits.

What if CU's are universal and are considered a contract administed by the state, and marriages are considered a religious construct?
Mr.Infidel
Posts: 300
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10/26/2011 1:11:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/26/2011 12:50:21 PM, innomen wrote:
At 10/26/2011 12:45:38 PM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
At 10/26/2011 12:40:57 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Never on the big issues. But on smaller ones, definitely. Unlike Raisor ^, my views usually don't change because of research. Many of the big issues such as whether or not the Death Penalty should be implemented come from a deep moral or emotional standpoint, and throwing a bunch of stats saying that the DP prevents murder is not going to change my mind. However, a coherent, well-written debate on a minor topic might be enough to change my views on that topic.

Agreed. There are some issues (like Civil Unions and SSM) I will NEVER change my views on. Simply put, CU is a form of "separate but equal" while SSM has many benefits.

What if CU's are universal and are considered a contract administed by the state, and marriages are considered a religious construct?

Still not for it.
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jm_notguilty
Posts: 683
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10/26/2011 1:13:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I've been hugely opposed to the death penalty, executing murders for example, but after doing 2 debates on it, with the help of research, it quite changed my views a bit, but am still opposed to it if it's used to execute criminals convicted of crimes other than capital murder.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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10/26/2011 3:49:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I just now remembered. I had a debate with Double_R on whether new members should be allowed to start debates right away upon joining. By the end of the debate, I pretty much agreed with his position. But other than that, I can't think of any.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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10/26/2011 4:02:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I was convinced of market anarchism, not in an official debate but on this(debate) site. Does that count?
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
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Mr.Infidel
Posts: 300
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10/26/2011 4:03:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/26/2011 4:02:04 PM, socialpinko wrote:
I was convinced of market anarchism, not in an official debate but on this(debate) site. Does that count?

Sure it does.
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Mirza
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10/26/2011 4:14:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
On 9/11 yes, but not in a debate. One thing that cleared up a bug in my mind regarding the conspiracy theory was a discussion through PM with RoyLatham.
Raisor
Posts: 4,460
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10/26/2011 5:05:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/26/2011 12:40:57 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Never on the big issues. But on smaller ones, definitely. Unlike Raisor ^, my views usually don't change because of research. Many of the big issues such as whether or not the Death Penalty should be implemented come from a deep moral or emotional standpoint, and throwing a bunch of stats saying that the DP prevents murder is not going to change my mind. However, a coherent, well-written debate on a minor topic might be enough to change my views on that topic.

I think it should be a warning sign if your views on "big" topics never sway or evolve. It seems very unlikely that you have always been correct on every major issue. Just in terms of an odds game you should see some of your opinions start to look less tenable if you are honestly and critically evaluating a topic.

I would also like to add that researching and constructing arguments for positions I do not hold is more likely to alter my opinions. One of the biggest reasons for this is that defending positions that are not your own in argument forces you to emotionally realign on an issue. I may think X, but if Im arguing Not X then I want to WIN that Not X is true- I start to want to see strong arguments or Not X and see where the weaknesses in X are. At the end of the argument I leave remembering how weak arguments for X can look from the other side (or sometimes how hard it was to convincingly argue Not X).
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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10/26/2011 6:55:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/26/2011 5:05:13 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 10/26/2011 12:40:57 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Never on the big issues. But on smaller ones, definitely. Unlike Raisor ^, my views usually don't change because of research. Many of the big issues such as whether or not the Death Penalty should be implemented come from a deep moral or emotional standpoint, and throwing a bunch of stats saying that the DP prevents murder is not going to change my mind. However, a coherent, well-written debate on a minor topic might be enough to change my views on that topic.

I think it should be a warning sign if your views on "big" topics never sway or evolve. It seems very unlikely that you have always been correct on every major issue. Just in terms of an odds game you should see some of your opinions start to look less tenable if you are honestly and critically evaluating a topic.

I would also like to add that researching and constructing arguments for positions I do not hold is more likely to alter my opinions. One of the biggest reasons for this is that defending positions that are not your own in argument forces you to emotionally realign on an issue. I may think X, but if Im arguing Not X then I want to WIN that Not X is true- I start to want to see strong arguments or Not X and see where the weaknesses in X are. At the end of the argument I leave remembering how weak arguments for X can look from the other side (or sometimes how hard it was to convincingly argue Not X).

I never really debated topics on the side that I don't believe in, but maybe I should start now. I think you are right about the emotional re-alignment, but it just makes it very difficult to argue a topic from a perspective that you don't believe in. If you did a lot of debates, then you probably want to try it on the other side for a change, but since I haven't done too many, I still feel there are a lot of topics that I want to do from my side. I certainly would consider arguing the opposite side on debates that I have already done though.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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10/27/2011 1:29:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Scientists are willing to abandon such firm beliefs as conservation of energy given sufficient evidence, so taking an absolute position on social issues is unwarranted. Demonstrating that something works should suffice.

Looking at other debates has changed by mind on a number of issues. I usually don't take debates unless I've researched a topic and though it through (often for twenty years or more), so few changes there. But it's possible.