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Code of Conduct

Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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10/29/2011 7:57:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Do we have one for new members to read? Not the official one for site registration, but an unofficial one for the recommended "do's" and "don'ts" for forum interaction.

It seems like something that would be nice to point at.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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10/29/2011 8:05:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
nothing that isn't common sense.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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10/29/2011 8:06:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/29/2011 7:57:24 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Do we have one for new members to read? Not the official one for site registration, but an unofficial one for the recommended "do's" and "don'ts" for forum interaction.

It seems like something that would be nice to point at.

Well, I can think of conduct for debating but I really don't know what you want to put out there for forum posts. Can you elaborate on that a little? I want to hear about this.

As for debates, I would say, you can make official rules, but a large part of the rules at DDO are unofficial, and members can only get them by actually debating or asking specific questions like what to do when your opponent forfeits, how to set up a resolution and definitions etc.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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10/30/2011 1:12:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Kleptin raises a good point. If there is a code of conduct for the forums, it's a weak one. Explicit death threats are frowned upon in most cases, but that's about it.

I think a debate site ought to be focused on issues. That ought to carry over to the forums, so that personal attacks, insults, raising irrelevant issues, and acting out to draw attention to oneself ought to be considered bad conduct. I think bad behavior ought to be criticized by the members without responding to it in kind. I suspect that a lot of bad behavior is deliberate, saying in effect, "Look at me, I'm important because I can say anything I want to." that's childish, and it shouldn't be fed by giving a lot of attention.

Code of conduct:
a. no personal attacks,
b. no insults,
c. no raising irrelevant issues to derail a thread, and
d. no acting out to draw attention to oneself
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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10/30/2011 1:55:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
This is a constant tug of war on the site. Half the site wants complete freedom to say anything without respect to pretty much anything. The other half wants some measure of structure enforced.

I agree that there should be a general code of common decency voluntarily accepted, and most of the time, most of the members do behave along those lines.

We do have a member or two who brings out the worst in us, and cares little about the accepted culture of the community. We have repeatedly questioned the site about how to handle them, and repeatedly the answer has been that they should be left as they are.

The mods have been working to edit out some of the more offensive stuff, and no one has really noticed, and blatantly offensive trolls have been removed.

It is a debate site and there will be contentious moments, that is unavoidable, and we do a good job of tolerating these moments in each other. Common decency shouldn't be such a vague or unachievable goal for the members of the site.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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10/30/2011 2:50:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Tbh I would support a filtering option for members, with the default mode being filtering. Essentially, if you want to kept the current censorship options and have words changed or censored, then it will stay that way, but if you don't mind some swear words, then you can opt for that.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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10/30/2011 3:43:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I believe in giving complete power to the people.

If you don't like the way someone is behaving, ignore them.

Even without enforced rules, society enforces its own law.

It just so happens that the people here like people like Izbo enough to keep feeding him. That's their choice. Power of the people, yo.

Vote Cosmic Alfonzo for super sexy time.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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10/30/2011 3:54:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
And by power to the people, I mean let nature work things out.

I can only hope that the people of this forum aren't barbaric about it.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Jon1
Posts: 314
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10/30/2011 4:13:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/30/2011 3:43:05 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I believe in giving complete power to the people.

If you don't like the way someone is behaving, ignore them.

Even without enforced rules, society enforces its own law.

It just so happens that the people here like people like Izbo enough to keep feeding him. That's their choice. Power of the people, yo.

Vote Cosmic Alfonzo for super sexy time.

I fully agree with CA, except the last part.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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10/30/2011 4:24:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I agree that there is a general common sense code of conduct people should follow in the forums, but not that the site should provide one. It is not up to the Mods to police all of our comments and decide which ones they consider acceptable, aside from death threats or something extreme to that effect. Providing a code of conduct means nothing if the site does not enforce it. If they say "no swearing" then they must remove every comment containing a dirty word, otherwise this entire conversation is pointless.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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10/30/2011 4:38:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The question that started the was whether there was an unofficial code of conduct for the site. It's a lot easier to answer the question, "Should higher powers torture or imprison errant DDO members?" so that's what people answered.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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10/30/2011 4:40:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
We're all adults here, there is no reason to get pretentious about a few words that a few people consider to be offensive.

Some people speak in a certain way, and the intelligent person is able to understand what a person is saying, regardless of the language they use to present it.

Unless it is in Swahili or something, then I have your sympathy. I would advise not talking to people who speak a language you do not understand.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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10/30/2011 9:22:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It was just something that popped into my head the other day when izbo made his "Ontological Argument" thread. In my failed attempt to sound authoritative and scold him for taking on such a position, I began to wonder whether or not it was even my right to take that kind of tone myself.

Though I think few would disagree that this forum should be a place for two-way intellectual exchange and not simply for preaching, bragging, or patronizing, I was also struck with a notion that was basically the same as what was mentioned by a few people here.

Being Debate.org, does our value of upholding the exchange of ideas between people override our value of individual freedom of speech?
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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10/30/2011 9:30:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm personally an advocate of the proven method of not feeding the trolls.

Be slow to label someone a troll, and be patient.. But once you realize that someone can not be talked to.. Quit trying.

Some of the people here are rather sensitive, and don't even seem to be capable of engaging someone who is insulting. If someone is insulting your position, and you feel they are being ignorant, try your best to be civil and correct their misunderstandings. If they are unwilling to listen, ignore them.

Calling someone a troll is counterproductive. In your own head, realize what they are, and avoid long arguments with them. Believe me when I say that no one pays attention to these engagements, and you are doing little more than stroking your own ego.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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10/30/2011 9:32:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Freedom of speech is the most important thing. If the others are incapable of allowing this, and incapable of dealing with those who are undesirable, they are not capable of any meaningful discussion. They are no better than the barbarians they engage with.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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10/30/2011 11:08:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/30/2011 9:32:56 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Freedom of speech is the most important thing. If the others are incapable of allowing this, and incapable of dealing with those who are undesirable, they are not capable of any meaningful discussion. They are no better than the barbarians they engage with.

You are certain that no one should ever be offended, or even annoyed, by anything?
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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10/30/2011 11:13:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
And what about the fact that trolls add vitality to the forum? Don't forget that this is a community of conflict seekers, as well as a community of egotists :P These are the two most common traits of people who come here, myself included. There's nothing better than a troll, because you can satisfy both at the same time.

They are a necessary vice, like prostitutes among soldiers and sailors.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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10/30/2011 11:19:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/30/2011 11:13:34 PM, Kleptin wrote:
And what about the fact that trolls add vitality to the forum? Don't forget that this is a community of conflict seekers, as well as a community of egotists :P These are the two most common traits of people who come here, myself included. There's nothing better than a troll, because you can satisfy both at the same time.

They are a necessary vice, like prostitutes among soldiers and sailors.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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10/30/2011 11:27:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm completely against the persecuting of those who have been labeled "trolls".

They are necessary.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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10/30/2011 11:35:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Depends on what you mean by persecution. If you mean berate, belittle, insult, and intimidate? These are absolutely necessary.

To organize a mass ignore effort or plea for banning as I used to do? Absolutely not.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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10/30/2011 11:40:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/30/2011 11:35:08 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Depends on what you mean by persecution. If you mean berate, belittle, insult, and intimidate? These are absolutely necessary.

To organize a mass ignore effort or plea for banning as I used to do? Absolutely not.

That's what I mean

On a site such as this especially, where we are debating ideas, freedom of speech is the most important thing.

Placing limits on the way someone expresses their opinion has no place here, and banning people for these things is counterproductive in the long term.

That said, I support freedom in other ways that most would probably disagree with. I would not have banned askbob for posting publicly available "personal" information on members or giving the site owners sh!t.

What it all comes down to is personal responsibility. So many wankers around here want to blame other people for their own inability to cope with their problems. For that reason, I blame these people for being mentally incompetent doo doo heads.

It's all your fault, not mind. Suck a chode.

And then vote for Cosmic Alfonzo, he really whips the lhama's @ss.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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10/30/2011 11:46:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
What if Askbob had posted your personal information online, found out your telephone number, harrassed you, found out your email, and threatened you not to post profanities on DDO. Would you feel he was justified in doing that?
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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10/30/2011 11:52:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/30/2011 11:46:19 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
What if Askbob had posted your personal information online, found out your telephone number, harrassed you, found out your email, and threatened you not to post profanities on DDO. Would you feel he was justified in doing that?

For one, it was publicly available information.

For two, I'm not scared easily. I'd find the whole ordeal to be humorous.

For three, not even a few days after I joined up, askbob threatened me, and I laughed at him. We didn't have any problems after that.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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10/30/2011 11:58:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/30/2011 11:52:29 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 10/30/2011 11:46:19 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
What if Askbob had posted your personal information online, found out your telephone number, harrassed you, found out your email, and threatened you not to post profanities on DDO. Would you feel he was justified in doing that?

For one, it was publicly available information.

For two, I'm not scared easily. I'd find the whole ordeal to be humorous.

For three, not even a few days after I joined up, askbob threatened me, and I laughed at him. We didn't have any problems after that.

How can possibly debate someone who makes up his own terms of service and reserves the "right" to hack into someone's account and ban them if they make comments in the comments section? He undermined the integrity of the site. I posted a link to the forum where he does that.

http://www.debate.org...
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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10/31/2011 12:03:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I called him Askdolf Hitler for a reason.

People took him too seriously.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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10/31/2011 12:23:21 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
In all fairness, Lionheart was retarded.

And you are missing the point, I don't care. I believe he should be allowed to do those things. If nothing else, the fact that people take him seriously is entertaining.

Askbob was one of the finest trolls around. He was very entertaining. If you believe that he shouldn't have a right to do the things he did, well.. In my opinion, you are just as much of an authoritarian wanker as he was.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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10/31/2011 12:27:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/31/2011 12:23:21 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
In all fairness, Lionheart was retarded.

And you are missing the point, I don't care. I believe he should be allowed to do those things. If nothing else, the fact that people take him seriously is entertaining.

Askbob was one of the finest trolls around. He was very entertaining. If you believe that he shouldn't have a right to do the things he did, well.. In my opinion, you are just as much of an authoritarian wanker as he was.

So people should be allowed to threaten and harass others and anyone who calls them out on it is an "authoritarian wanker?"

What about real life? All the police who catch criminals are authoritarian wankers?