Total Posts:130|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Screw you innomen

bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 4:26:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
http://www.debate.org...

SERIOUSLY?????????????????

You had your political followers vote bomb me, then counter-vote bomb, THEN change their votes a SECOND before the voting period finished.

Like I have zero respect for you anymore. This debate has been PLAGUING me for a week, trying to get voters to counter your followers vote-bombing.

If you can't even combat vote bombing in your own debates, how can you lead this site???

I don't really even care about the election anymore. I just don't want you leading DDO. I'd rather abolish the presidency.

And give back your mod privileges NOW.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
thett3
Posts: 14,334
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 4:30:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
ONE POINT?!

And I was THIS close to giving you the sources vote...sorry man :(

But I dont think innomen had a conspiracy going against you, but that doesnt really matter (to me).
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,240
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 4:32:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Even though I thought Innomen's argument had good points, I decided to cancel my own vote because of all the bias suspicion flying around.
cameronl35
Posts: 149
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 4:32:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 4:26:36 PM, bluesteel wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

SERIOUSLY?????????????????

You had your political followers vote bomb me, then counter-vote bomb, THEN change their votes a SECOND before the voting period finished.

Like I have zero respect for you anymore. This debate has been PLAGUING me for a week, trying to get voters to counter your followers vote-bombing.

If you can't even combat vote bombing in your own debates, how can you lead this site???

I don't really even care about the election anymore. I just don't want you leading DDO. I'd rather abolish the presidency.

And give back your mod privileges NOW.

Interesting...Even though I may not agree with everything I'm surprised by bluesteel's bravery...."People shouldn't be afraid of their governments, the government should be afraid of heir people."
"They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."
-George Carlin (R.I.P.)

"MLK day is simply racism against whites."
-Lordknukle, only a nuance away from Stalin
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 4:37:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 4:31:23 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
That was all mirza, I purposely voted neutral exactly because of all the sparks flying from this debate.
A conspiracy going on? Great.

Greyparrot, maybe you want me to challenge you on this:

"Mirza tactically voted on Innomen on Debate X"

Go on, it will be interesting.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 4:40:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The people innomen has urged to vote on this debate have done extremely sketchy things. Many of them have vote bombed me. One of them changed his vote MULTIPLE times to award innomen more points, so he wouldn't be losing. Mirza used a tactic to ensure innomen won and there was nothing I could do to re-counter Gil's votebomb. Like this is the sketchiest thing ever. He changes his "counter-vote bomb" to an innomen vote 10 seconds before the debate ends, giving innomen all 7 of his other vote-bombers points plus Mirza's own.

innomen, I didn't think you'd stoop this low just to win a debate. I had a really good opinion of you before this debate ever started. Too bad.

Please resign and give up your mod privileges. At least one of your voters (who it's unclear read the debate), clearly thought he was doing you a favor because you "confirmed his identity." http://www.debate.org...
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 4:42:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
lol, yeah, no tactical voting. I was winning by 12 points this morning, and then it swings 9 points the other way TEN SECONDS before the voting period ends.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 4:42:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 4:40:44 PM, bluesteel wrote:
The people innomen has urged to vote on this debate have done extremely sketchy things. Many of them have vote bombed me. One of them changed his vote MULTIPLE times to award innomen more points, so he wouldn't be losing. Mirza used a tactic to ensure innomen won and there was nothing I could do to re-counter Gil's votebomb. Like this is the sketchiest thing ever. He changes his "counter-vote bomb" to an innomen vote 10 seconds before the debate ends, giving innomen all 7 of his other vote-bombers points plus Mirza's own.

innomen, I didn't think you'd stoop this low just to win a debate. I had a really good opinion of you before this debate ever started. Too bad.

Please resign and give up your mod privileges. At least one of your voters (who it's unclear read the debate), clearly thought he was doing you a favor because you "confirmed his identity." http://www.debate.org...
I'll send the challenge to you too - or you instead. Go on, or stop rambling about me. You're talking nonsense.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 4:43:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 4:38:02 PM, Mirza wrote:
I'll have the arguments in 30 minutes if you accept.

I don't want to debate you on this - I either want your voting privileges taken away or for you to leave the site. That was so scummy.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 4:45:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The bigger issue is that like a third of innomen's voters gave him the sources point with no explanation. This is why all votes should count equally.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 4:47:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 4:43:23 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 11/21/2011 4:38:02 PM, Mirza wrote:
I'll have the arguments in 30 minutes if you accept.

I don't want to debate you on this - I either want your voting privileges taken away or for you to leave the site. That was so scummy.
Your claims are based on blind faith. You know nothing about why I voted in the last moment. You'd know better if you accepted a challenge, or ask some of your whiners in this thread to do you a favor like you think I did innomen one. Good idea, eh?

My voting privileges are none of your concerns, nor will I dare to leave the site because you think I voted unfairly. I lost most of my own debates due to idiotic voting (such as systematic votebomb on my first debate 2 years ago against Danielle), and you think I will go down because you think I voted unfairly in one of your debates?

Never.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 4:47:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 4:45:17 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
The bigger issue is that like a third of innomen's voters gave him the sources point with no explanation. This is why all votes should count equally.
That's another issue. My issue is people mentioning my name. I voted in the last moment, if anyone has a problem I'll give them a challenge on why I did it.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 4:49:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 4:40:44 PM, bluesteel wrote:
The people innomen has urged to vote on this debate have done extremely sketchy things. Many of them have vote bombed me. One of them changed his vote MULTIPLE times to award innomen more points, so he wouldn't be losing. Mirza used a tactic to ensure innomen won and there was nothing I could do to re-counter Gil's votebomb. Like this is the sketchiest thing ever. He changes his "counter-vote bomb" to an innomen vote 10 seconds before the debate ends, giving innomen all 7 of his other vote-bombers points plus Mirza's own.

innomen, I didn't think you'd stoop this low just to win a debate. I had a really good opinion of you before this debate ever started. Too bad.

Please resign and give up your mod privileges. At least one of your voters (who it's unclear read the debate), clearly thought he was doing you a favor because you "confirmed his identity." http://www.debate.org...

Relax Bluesteel, i had far less control over any of that than you think. Everytime someone voted in my favor you would browbeat them, and those in your favor a thank you. I urged a couple to vote who voted against me, so you're just wrong. Most of the people that commented admited that it was a close debate, and Mirza said he was going to change his vote eventually right up front.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 4:50:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Mirza, debating you is a waste of time. I'll lose. Not cuz i'll actually lose, but i don't want to SUBJECT myself to getting like 10 legitimate debaters (Roy, danielle, maikuru, marauder, spinko, F-16, thett, raisor, BV) to vote for me and still lose because of vote bombing. Congrats on creating the new "innomen voting bloc." You guys clearly rule the site. In the end, it didn't matter that I won "more judges" votes or even "better judges" votes. It all came down to your and Gil's votebombs.

You clearly knew that switching your vote at the last minute would mean innomen won, not because he actually won but because of Gil's votebomb which I had THOUGHT you were supposedly countering.

Congrats. I don't care what your petty rationalizations are for doing it.

Whatever, I refuse to debate ever again on this site until vote-bombing is fixed. This is just RIDICULOUS.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 4:53:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 4:49:05 PM, innomen wrote:
At 11/21/2011 4:40:44 PM, bluesteel wrote:
The people innomen has urged to vote on this debate have done extremely sketchy things. Many of them have vote bombed me. One of them changed his vote MULTIPLE times to award innomen more points, so he wouldn't be losing. Mirza used a tactic to ensure innomen won and there was nothing I could do to re-counter Gil's votebomb. Like this is the sketchiest thing ever. He changes his "counter-vote bomb" to an innomen vote 10 seconds before the debate ends, giving innomen all 7 of his other vote-bombers points plus Mirza's own.

innomen, I didn't think you'd stoop this low just to win a debate. I had a really good opinion of you before this debate ever started. Too bad.

Please resign and give up your mod privileges. At least one of your voters (who it's unclear read the debate), clearly thought he was doing you a favor because you "confirmed his identity." http://www.debate.org...

Relax Bluesteel, i had far less control over any of that than you think. Everytime someone voted in my favor you would browbeat them, and those in your favor a thank you. I urged a couple to vote who voted against me, so you're just wrong. Most of the people that commented admited that it was a close debate, and Mirza said he was going to change his vote eventually right up front.

YES, but you didn't urge GIL to stop vote bombing me. Like you remained COMPLETLEY silent on all the vote bombing the entire time. Very presidential of you. And YOU were the one browbeating everyone. You called at least two of the people who voted for me "retards." At least all my voters left RFD's.

People can look back through the debate. None of your voters left any RFD, really. The person you accuse me of "browbeating" started asking me questions. He hadn't even voted. I wasn't sure he even had voting privileges, so I started discussing things with him.

Like, wow, no apology even. You're DEFENDING what mirza did.

FU innomen
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 4:53:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
What happened?
Gil's comment says "countering Mirza's vote bomb", which seems to suggest Mirza vote bombed FOR bluesteel...
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 4:54:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 4:53:40 PM, tvellalott wrote:
What happened?
Gil's comment says "countering Mirza's vote bomb", which seems to suggest Mirza vote bombed FOR bluesteel...

apostateabe vote bombed me, Mirza "supposedly" countered it, Gil "countered back," then Mirza changed his vote to 3 for innomen 10 seconds before the vote period ended, which results in a 10 point swing to innomen, basically, all because of Gil's votebomb.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 4:56:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 4:50:59 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Mirza, debating you is a waste of time. I'll lose. Not cuz i'll actually lose, but i don't want to SUBJECT myself to getting like 10 legitimate debaters (Roy, danielle, maikuru, marauder, spinko, F-16, thett, raisor, BV) to vote for me and still lose because of vote bombing.
If you think they will vote for you, why are you afraid of debating? You think I'm very popular on this site? I think you've forgotten my history here. If anyone would get votebombed, it's me.

Moreover, I'd laugh at your pick of some 'legitimate' voters. But have your opinion, it's not that bad.

Congrats on creating the new "innomen voting bloc." You guys clearly rule the site. In the end, it didn't matter that I won "more judges" votes or even "better judges" votes. It all came down to your and Gil's votebombs.
You think this is related to anything regarding the site presidency?

You clearly knew that switching your vote at the last minute would mean innomen won, not because he actually won but because of Gil's votebomb which I had THOUGHT you were supposedly countering.
Yes, I did know. That tells nothing about systematic voting. What's more, I also 'knew' if my votebomb-counter in your favor did not get switched, you'd not care. You'd celebrate your win. You were grateful for all the votes on you. Hurray.
thett3
Posts: 14,334
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 4:58:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 4:45:17 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
The bigger issue is that like a third of innomen's voters gave him the sources point with no explanation. This is why all votes should count equally.

The worst part is that I think blues sources were better. The only reason I didnt give him the sources vote is because when I voted it way tying the debate up, and I didnt want it to look like I was screwing the vote system to get blue to win (you know, like mirza, gil, Ore_Ele, and 16kadams did)
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 4:58:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 4:54:57 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 11/21/2011 4:53:40 PM, tvellalott wrote:
What happened?
Gil's comment says "countering Mirza's vote bomb", which seems to suggest Mirza vote bombed FOR bluesteel...

apostateabe vote bombed me, Mirza "supposedly" countered it, Gil "countered back," then Mirza changed his vote to 3 for innomen 10 seconds before the vote period ended, which results in a 10 point swing to innomen, basically, all because of Gil's votebomb.

OK. :/
That sucks, but shouldn't this thread be called "Screw you Mirza"?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 4:58:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 4:53:14 PM, bluesteel wrote:
YES, but you didn't urge GIL to stop vote bombing me. Like you remained COMPLETLEY silent on all the vote bombing the entire time.
"I don't understand any motive for votebombing in this debate. My comments and Blue's comments have been influencing the debate after, or even before it's been read; I don't think that's right, read it and vote."

Yes, how silent.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 4:59:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 4:53:14 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 11/21/2011 4:49:05 PM, innomen wrote:
At 11/21/2011 4:40:44 PM, bluesteel wrote:
The people innomen has urged to vote on this debate have done extremely sketchy things. Many of them have vote bombed me. One of them changed his vote MULTIPLE times to award innomen more points, so he wouldn't be losing. Mirza used a tactic to ensure innomen won and there was nothing I could do to re-counter Gil's votebomb. Like this is the sketchiest thing ever. He changes his "counter-vote bomb" to an innomen vote 10 seconds before the debate ends, giving innomen all 7 of his other vote-bombers points plus Mirza's own.

innomen, I didn't think you'd stoop this low just to win a debate. I had a really good opinion of you before this debate ever started. Too bad.

Please resign and give up your mod privileges. At least one of your voters (who it's unclear read the debate), clearly thought he was doing you a favor because you "confirmed his identity." http://www.debate.org...

Relax Bluesteel, i had far less control over any of that than you think. Everytime someone voted in my favor you would browbeat them, and those in your favor a thank you. I urged a couple to vote who voted against me, so you're just wrong. Most of the people that commented admited that it was a close debate, and Mirza said he was going to change his vote eventually right up front.

YES, but you didn't urge GIL to stop vote bombing me. Like you remained COMPLETLEY silent on all the vote bombing the entire time. Very presidential of you. And YOU were the one browbeating everyone. You called at least two of the people who voted for me "retards." At least all my voters left RFD's.

People can look back through the debate. None of your voters left any RFD, really. The person you accuse me of "browbeating" started asking me questions. He hadn't even voted. I wasn't sure he even had voting privileges, so I started discussing things with him.

Like, wow, no apology even. You're DEFENDING what mirza did.

FU innomen

Honestly i wasn't as attentive on this debate as you think. I checked in from time to time, but didn't read all of the RFD's except the one that i found way off base, and i did criticize his judgments, but i told F16 about the debate and he voted against me. Mirza said he was going to switch, so you should have known that he would at some point.

I didn't do anything wrong, so i don't understand why i would apologize. I have no control over how others will vote.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 5:00:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
*sees slimy political opportunity*

Ladies and gentlemen of DDO, a vote for Cosmic Alfonzo is a vote for.. umm.. Cosmic Alfonzo, but it is also a vote not for Innomen, who has proven himself consistently to have fascist tendencies, sympathy for the reptilians, and a desire to rule the world through voter fraud.

I assure you that this won't happen under my administration, because we'll be too tanked to do anything. Something which would never happen in the Presidential Manor currently, because Innomen is a reported TEETOTALER.

Walk of shame.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 5:00:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 4:58:30 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/21/2011 4:45:17 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
The bigger issue is that like a third of innomen's voters gave him the sources point with no explanation. This is why all votes should count equally.

The worst part is that I think blues sources were better. The only reason I didnt give him the sources vote is because when I voted it way tying the debate up, and I didnt want it to look like I was screwing the vote system to get blue to win (you know, like mirza, gil, Ore_Ele, and 16kadams did)

I was about to do the same thing since Innomen said one of his sources said something it didn't, ad because Blue's were just insanely good, but then innomen would have gotten after me even more than he did. But obviously there's no problem with people like OreEle or Zetsubou giving innomen sources, with no justification. Rofl.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 5:00:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 4:56:29 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 11/21/2011 4:50:59 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Mirza, debating you is a waste of time. I'll lose. Not cuz i'll actually lose, but i don't want to SUBJECT myself to getting like 10 legitimate debaters (Roy, danielle, maikuru, marauder, spinko, F-16, thett, raisor, BV) to vote for me and still lose because of vote bombing.
If you think they will vote for you, why are you afraid of debating? You think I'm very popular on this site? I think you've forgotten my history here. If anyone would get votebombed, it's me.

Moreover, I'd laugh at your pick of some 'legitimate' voters. But have your opinion, it's not that bad.

Congrats on creating the new "innomen voting bloc." You guys clearly rule the site. In the end, it didn't matter that I won "more judges" votes or even "better judges" votes. It all came down to your and Gil's votebombs.
You think this is related to anything regarding the site presidency?

You clearly knew that switching your vote at the last minute would mean innomen won, not because he actually won but because of Gil's votebomb which I had THOUGHT you were supposedly countering.
Yes, I did know. That tells nothing about systematic voting. What's more, I also 'knew' if my votebomb-counter in your favor did not get switched, you'd not care. You'd celebrate your win. You were grateful for all the votes on you. Hurray.

you're @sshole. fvck you. You basically admit to doing this because you didn't want to see me win and would rather see me pissed off. This is clearly just trolling. Did you even read the debate? I doubt you read it in the 10 seconds that you had left to vote.

yeah, i'd be happy that what you did was FAIR. you could have told me to counter gil's vote bomb yourself OR you could have warned gil to fix his vote bomb before changing your vote.

and you openly admitted in your "RFD" (you know, the one before you changed it) that innomen had asked you to vote on this, as i'm sure he did zets.

Woohoo, congrats for King Innomen and his new powerful voting bloc.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 5:01:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Blue, Grey, Tvell, Thett, All of you should either remain silent or put up for debate. Your allegations are ridiculous, and that's why I'd love to debate them.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/21/2011 5:04:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 4:58:38 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 11/21/2011 4:54:57 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 11/21/2011 4:53:40 PM, tvellalott wrote:
What happened?
Gil's comment says "countering Mirza's vote bomb", which seems to suggest Mirza vote bombed FOR bluesteel...

apostateabe vote bombed me, Mirza "supposedly" countered it, Gil "countered back," then Mirza changed his vote to 3 for innomen 10 seconds before the vote period ended, which results in a 10 point swing to innomen, basically, all because of Gil's votebomb.

OK. :/
That sucks, but shouldn't this thread be called "Screw you Mirza"?

No, innomen's political supports have been vote bombing me this entire time.

http://www.debate.org...
phantom thinks he owes innomen something for granting him voting privileges

http://www.debate.org...
DanT is one of innomen's fierce advocates

Mirza openly admitted (in his first, now unviewable RFD) that he is a staunch innomen supporter and innomen asked him to vote.

Like, i've been unable to make any headway in the voting on that debate only because innomen keeps finding new supporters to vote for him (with no RFD) and who all give him 5, 6, or 7 points. One of them, 16kadams, changed his vote TWICE to give innomen more points.

innomen also attacked blackvoid, pretty openly, for his RFD and then had the gall to accuse me of impropriety in this regard.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)