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Character Limit

cameronl35
Posts: 149
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11/24/2011 3:53:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I think we need the character limit to be either abolished or extend for it has became a hindrance in most of my recent debates. I've also typed about 5,000 and it'll tell me I typed 8,000+...Anyone else have this problem? Should it be Abolished/Extended/Remain the same?
"They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."
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"MLK day is simply racism against whites."
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BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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11/24/2011 4:12:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
8000 is fine. I've only had 1 debate where I really struggled with it. Anything over 8000 turns off judges. Debates are already pretty long.
Chrysippus
Posts: 2,173
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11/24/2011 5:03:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/24/2011 3:53:46 PM, cameronl35 wrote:
I think we need the character limit to be either abolished or extend for it has became a hindrance in most of my recent debates. I've also typed about 5,000 and it'll tell me I typed 8,000+...Anyone else have this problem? Should it be Abolished/Extended/Remain the same?

I've had problems with it cutting off the last 300-500 characters, but not nearly the scale you are talking about there. I find it best to create my round on an off-line program and c/p it in; the DDO editor is glitchy in my browser and loses pieces of my words.

As for the character limit, I highly disagree. If you cannot say what you need to in 8,000 characters, you should go write a book on it instead of a debate round. You get 4-5 debate rounds with each debater taking his full limit, that's 64,000 characters and some 10-15,000 words to wade through for voting. Some people can make it interesting, but most just make it dry; it's hard enough to get voters without actively driving them away.

I for one will not vote on a debate that, while well written, is too long for me to spare the time to do it justice. It takes a lot longer to read one of these debates than it does to read a book chapter the same length, because you weigh the arguments, look for flaws, try to understand their points, and try to make sense of a often confusing structure.

Longer character limits really aren't necessary.
Cavete mea inexorabilis legiones mimus!
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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11/24/2011 5:18:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/24/2011 5:03:06 PM, Chrysippus wrote:
At 11/24/2011 3:53:46 PM, cameronl35 wrote:
I think we need the character limit to be either abolished or extend for it has became a hindrance in most of my recent debates. I've also typed about 5,000 and it'll tell me I typed 8,000+...Anyone else have this problem? Should it be Abolished/Extended/Remain the same?

I've had problems with it cutting off the last 300-500 characters, but not nearly the scale you are talking about there. I find it best to create my round on an off-line program and c/p it in; the DDO editor is glitchy in my browser and loses pieces of my words.

As for the character limit, I highly disagree. If you cannot say what you need to in 8,000 characters, you should go write a book on it instead of a debate round. You get 4-5 debate rounds with each debater taking his full limit, that's 64,000 characters and some 10-15,000 words to wade through for voting. Some people can make it interesting, but most just make it dry; it's hard enough to get voters without actively driving them away.

I for one will not vote on a debate that, while well written, is too long for me to spare the time to do it justice. It takes a lot longer to read one of these debates than it does to read a book chapter the same length, because you weigh the arguments, look for flaws, try to understand their points, and try to make sense of a often confusing structure.

Longer character limits really aren't necessary.

I agree with Chrysippus on this one. It is an absolute pain to look at extremely long debates. A well written debate might take about 20 mins to read, understand, and analyze. On top of that, you have to decide who the winner is, taking into account all arguments. This can take 5+ mins also. In essence, making debates longer would not encourage fair voting. People would simply not have the time to read them.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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11/24/2011 5:19:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/24/2011 4:59:31 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
Sig change.

ProTip: you don't have to post something to change your sig. It is changed when you click 'review'.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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11/24/2011 5:22:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/24/2011 3:53:46 PM, cameronl35 wrote:
I think we need the character limit to be either abolished or extend for it has became a hindrance in most of my recent debates. I've also typed about 5,000 and it'll tell me I typed 8,000+...Anyone else have this problem? Should it be Abolished/Extended/Remain the same?

I agree with adding options for more character space. It would be an option, not a requirement, so if people don't want to use it they don't have to. No one has to participate in a debate with more character space if they don't want to. For those of us who are willing to risk a few less voters, that option should be available.
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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11/24/2011 5:23:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/24/2011 5:19:22 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 11/24/2011 4:59:31 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
Sig change.

ProTip: you don't have to post something to change your sig. It is changed when you click 'review'.

Thanks.
Mr.Infidel
Posts: 300
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11/24/2011 5:47:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Agree. We need to TURN OF character limit.
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cameronl35
Posts: 149
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11/24/2011 9:49:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/24/2011 5:18:07 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/24/2011 5:03:06 PM, Chrysippus wrote:
At 11/24/2011 3:53:46 PM, cameronl35 wrote:
I think we need the character limit to be either abolished or extend for it has became a hindrance in most of my recent debates. I've also typed about 5,000 and it'll tell me I typed 8,000+...Anyone else have this problem? Should it be Abolished/Extended/Remain the same?

I've had problems with it cutting off the last 300-500 characters, but not nearly the scale you are talking about there. I find it best to create my round on an off-line program and c/p it in; the DDO editor is glitchy in my browser and loses pieces of my words.

As for the character limit, I highly disagree. If you cannot say what you need to in 8,000 characters, you should go write a book on it instead of a debate round. You get 4-5 debate rounds with each debater taking his full limit, that's 64,000 characters and some 10-15,000 words to wade through for voting. Some people can make it interesting, but most just make it dry; it's hard enough to get voters without actively driving them away.

I for one will not vote on a debate that, while well written, is too long for me to spare the time to do it justice. It takes a lot longer to read one of these debates than it does to read a book chapter the same length, because you weigh the arguments, look for flaws, try to understand their points, and try to make sense of a often confusing structure.

Longer character limits really aren't necessary.

I agree with Chrysippus on this one. It is an absolute pain to look at extremely long debates. A well written debate might take about 20 mins to read, understand, and analyze. On top of that, you have to decide who the winner is, taking into account all arguments. This can take 5+ mins also. In essence, making debates longer would not encourage fair voting. People would simply not have the time to read them.

If you don't want to read the long arguments...then simply don't vote on it. It's the debater's responsibility to factor in voting issues along the way.
"They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."
-George Carlin (R.I.P.)

"MLK day is simply racism against whites."
-Lordknukle, only a nuance away from Stalin
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/24/2011 10:20:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/24/2011 5:18:07 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/24/2011 5:03:06 PM, Chrysippus wrote:
At 11/24/2011 3:53:46 PM, cameronl35 wrote:
I think we need the character limit to be either abolished or extend for it has became a hindrance in most of my recent debates. I've also typed about 5,000 and it'll tell me I typed 8,000+...Anyone else have this problem? Should it be Abolished/Extended/Remain the same?

I've had problems with it cutting off the last 300-500 characters, but not nearly the scale you are talking about there. I find it best to create my round on an off-line program and c/p it in; the DDO editor is glitchy in my browser and loses pieces of my words.

As for the character limit, I highly disagree. If you cannot say what you need to in 8,000 characters, you should go write a book on it instead of a debate round. You get 4-5 debate rounds with each debater taking his full limit, that's 64,000 characters and some 10-15,000 words to wade through for voting. Some people can make it interesting, but most just make it dry; it's hard enough to get voters without actively driving them away.

I for one will not vote on a debate that, while well written, is too long for me to spare the time to do it justice. It takes a lot longer to read one of these debates than it does to read a book chapter the same length, because you weigh the arguments, look for flaws, try to understand their points, and try to make sense of a often confusing structure.

Longer character limits really aren't necessary.

I agree with Chrysippus on this one. It is an absolute pain to look at extremely long debates. A well written debate might take about 20 mins to read, understand, and analyze. On top of that, you have to decide who the winner is, taking into account all arguments. This can take 5+ mins also. In essence, making debates longer would not encourage fair voting. People would simply not have the time to read them.

Really? I must read slowly. 0.o
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Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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11/25/2011 12:09:21 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Long debates make me sad. You can usually avoid hitting the character max by using tinyurl and not ultra-quoting.
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bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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11/25/2011 12:40:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
If the debate is too long, you won't get any judges...

The character limit forces people to be concise.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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11/25/2011 5:20:53 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/25/2011 12:40:27 AM, bluesteel wrote:
If the debate is too long, you won't get any judges...

The character limit forces people to be concise.

Actually, in our last debate you taught me a tactic that can easily help con, where if you can give a shot gun approach of many concise objections that require some in depth rebuttal, there is no way pro can effectively respond within the character limits. In my rebuttal i found myself editing out huge portions, and entire arguments, just to make it fit. As the debate continued i had to make some judgment calls on which arguments were the more important ones, and just hoped that what i perceived as a weak objection would be deemed as such by the judges, and that's a horrible assumption to make.

You are correct that if the debate is somewhat dry, and the arguments are Charlesb style, no one will read it, but might scan it.

It's been a long time since i actually debated in school, how long do oral rounds go now? 5 min? Can we read 8,000 characters in the same amount that's considered a standard in regular scholastic debates?
cameronl35
Posts: 149
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11/25/2011 10:28:14 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/25/2011 5:20:53 AM, innomen wrote:
At 11/25/2011 12:40:27 AM, bluesteel wrote:
If the debate is too long, you won't get any judges...

The character limit forces people to be concise.

Actually, in our last debate you taught me a tactic that can easily help con, where if you can give a shot gun approach of many concise objections that require some in depth rebuttal, there is no way pro can effectively respond within the character limits. In my rebuttal i found myself editing out huge portions, and entire arguments, just to make it fit. As the debate continued i had to make some judgment calls on which arguments were the more important ones, and just hoped that what i perceived as a weak objection would be deemed as such by the judges, and that's a horrible assumption to make.

You are correct that if the debate is somewhat dry, and the arguments are Charlesb style, no one will read it, but might scan it.

It's been a long time since i actually debated in school, how long do oral rounds go now? 5 min? Can we read 8,000 characters in the same amount that's considered a standard in regular scholastic debates?

Depending on the event the constructive speeches in Public Forum are 4 but Policy is 10 I'm pretty sure...but you can read 8,000 in 10 if you spread
"They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."
-George Carlin (R.I.P.)

"MLK day is simply racism against whites."
-Lordknukle, only a nuance away from Stalin
cameronl35
Posts: 149
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11/25/2011 3:02:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/25/2011 12:40:27 AM, bluesteel wrote:
If the debate is too long, you won't get any judges...

The character limit forces people to be concise.

Shouldn't it be the responsibility of the individual to factor in the judge's interests?
"They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."
-George Carlin (R.I.P.)

"MLK day is simply racism against whites."
-Lordknukle, only a nuance away from Stalin
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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11/25/2011 3:49:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/25/2011 10:28:14 AM, cameronl35 wrote:
At 11/25/2011 5:20:53 AM, innomen wrote:
At 11/25/2011 12:40:27 AM, bluesteel wrote:
If the debate is too long, you won't get any judges...

The character limit forces people to be concise.

Actually, in our last debate you taught me a tactic that can easily help con, where if you can give a shot gun approach of many concise objections that require some in depth rebuttal, there is no way pro can effectively respond within the character limits. In my rebuttal i found myself editing out huge portions, and entire arguments, just to make it fit. As the debate continued i had to make some judgment calls on which arguments were the more important ones, and just hoped that what i perceived as a weak objection would be deemed as such by the judges, and that's a horrible assumption to make.

You are correct that if the debate is somewhat dry, and the arguments are Charlesb style, no one will read it, but might scan it.

It's been a long time since i actually debated in school, how long do oral rounds go now? 5 min? Can we read 8,000 characters in the same amount that's considered a standard in regular scholastic debates?

Depending on the event the constructive speeches in Public Forum are 4 but Policy is 10 I'm pretty sure...but you can read 8,000 in 10 if you spread

Policy Constructives are 8 min, and Rebuttals are 5.
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I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

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cameronl35
Posts: 149
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11/25/2011 4:06:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/25/2011 3:49:57 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 11/25/2011 10:28:14 AM, cameronl35 wrote:
At 11/25/2011 5:20:53 AM, innomen wrote:
At 11/25/2011 12:40:27 AM, bluesteel wrote:
If the debate is too long, you won't get any judges...

The character limit forces people to be concise.

Actually, in our last debate you taught me a tactic that can easily help con, where if you can give a shot gun approach of many concise objections that require some in depth rebuttal, there is no way pro can effectively respond within the character limits. In my rebuttal i found myself editing out huge portions, and entire arguments, just to make it fit. As the debate continued i had to make some judgment calls on which arguments were the more important ones, and just hoped that what i perceived as a weak objection would be deemed as such by the judges, and that's a horrible assumption to make.

You are correct that if the debate is somewhat dry, and the arguments are Charlesb style, no one will read it, but might scan it.

It's been a long time since i actually debated in school, how long do oral rounds go now? 5 min? Can we read 8,000 characters in the same amount that's considered a standard in regular scholastic debates?

Depending on the event the constructive speeches in Public Forum are 4 but Policy is 10 I'm pretty sure...but you can read 8,000 in 10 if you spread

Policy Constructives are 8 min, and Rebuttals are 5.

My bad, I'm do LD and PF so I wouldn't know. All I know is that they're longer. I don't think 8,000 is possible for most people in 8 minutes, correct?
"They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."
-George Carlin (R.I.P.)

"MLK day is simply racism against whites."
-Lordknukle, only a nuance away from Stalin