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Izbo on trial

innomen
Posts: 10,052
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11/26/2011 3:14:01 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I've decided the site will make one determination whether he should go or stay and it will come through a trial in the form of a debate.

Izbo must have a defense, and i strongly recommend that Izbo not defend himself, the prosecutors will be represented by one person, but most likely will have a team.

I will be the judge in that i will carry out the sentence, and this will determine whether Izbo will or will not stay. Other sentences may include less severe ones like temporarily banning, or removal of voting abilities.

I open this for discussion, but i believe this to be the best course to help resolve Izbo.
deamonomic
Posts: 121
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11/26/2011 3:16:02 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
i don't know whats going on between you and him, but i would say that this sounds like a very reasonable and appropriate way to handle this
I would gladly lose a million times over then win by cheating once.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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11/26/2011 3:28:00 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Summons sent to Izbo, with copies to C_N and Geo (I would have copied Ike, but he blocked me(?):

This is to inform you that you are to be put on trial for crimes against the site and Terms of Service. Your trial will come in the form of a debate. I expect you to find a defense team, and if you don't have one, one will be appointed for you. I strongly recommend that you do not defend yourself. Your crimes against this site could result in your permanent banning from this site. The trial will commence within a reasonable amount of time so that both defense and prosecutors can prepare.

If you do not respond to this, a trial will occur without you.

I will be the judge, but the votes by the site will be the jury determining your guilt or innocence.
Mr.Infidel
Posts: 300
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11/26/2011 3:31:13 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 3:28:00 AM, innomen wrote:
Summons sent to Izbo, with copies to C_N and Geo (I would have copied Ike, but he blocked me(?):

This is to inform you that you are to be put on trial for crimes against the site and Terms of Service. Your trial will come in the form of a debate. I expect you to find a defense team, and if you don't have one, one will be appointed for you. I strongly recommend that you do not defend yourself. Your crimes against this site could result in your permanent banning from this site. The trial will commence within a reasonable amount of time so that both defense and prosecutors can prepare.

If you do not respond to this, a trial will occur without you.

I will be the judge, but the votes by the site will be the jury determining your guilt or innocence.

Why did C_N and geo get summoned? C_N hates izbo as much as I do.
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innomen
Posts: 10,052
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11/26/2011 3:32:32 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 3:31:13 AM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
At 11/26/2011 3:28:00 AM, innomen wrote:
Summons sent to Izbo, with copies to C_N and Geo (I would have copied Ike, but he blocked me(?):

This is to inform you that you are to be put on trial for crimes against the site and Terms of Service. Your trial will come in the form of a debate. I expect you to find a defense team, and if you don't have one, one will be appointed for you. I strongly recommend that you do not defend yourself. Your crimes against this site could result in your permanent banning from this site. The trial will commence within a reasonable amount of time so that both defense and prosecutors can prepare.

If you do not respond to this, a trial will occur without you.

I will be the judge, but the votes by the site will be the jury determining your guilt or innocence.

Why did C_N and geo get summoned? C_N hates izbo as much as I do.

Nothing personal, i just wanted a witness on both sides to be present for the summons.
Mr.Infidel
Posts: 300
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11/26/2011 3:33:51 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 3:32:32 AM, innomen wrote:
At 11/26/2011 3:31:13 AM, Mr.Infidel wrote:
At 11/26/2011 3:28:00 AM, innomen wrote:
Summons sent to Izbo, with copies to C_N and Geo (I would have copied Ike, but he blocked me(?):

This is to inform you that you are to be put on trial for crimes against the site and Terms of Service. Your trial will come in the form of a debate. I expect you to find a defense team, and if you don't have one, one will be appointed for you. I strongly recommend that you do not defend yourself. Your crimes against this site could result in your permanent banning from this site. The trial will commence within a reasonable amount of time so that both defense and prosecutors can prepare.

If you do not respond to this, a trial will occur without you.

I will be the judge, but the votes by the site will be the jury determining your guilt or innocence.

Why did C_N and geo get summoned? C_N hates izbo as much as I do.

Nothing personal, i just wanted a witness on both sides to be present for the summons.

Sounds good. :)
Please donate to the following ENDANGERED SPECIES!
Preciousness of life.
Family structure.
Family values. 

Disarm a liberal. Vote for values.

Opinions of this signature are those of G-d's and any of His affiliates.
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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11/26/2011 4:08:32 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
If a user violates the site's terms, they should go. If they don't, they should stay. What is all this?
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

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jm_notguilty
Posts: 683
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11/26/2011 4:11:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 4:08:32 AM, Maikuru wrote:
If a user violates the site's terms, they should go. If they don't, they should stay. What is all this?

A courtroom drama.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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11/26/2011 4:12:24 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 4:08:32 AM, Maikuru wrote:
If a user violates the site's terms, they should go. If they don't, they should stay. What is all this?

If this, then we would lose about a third of our members.
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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11/26/2011 4:22:41 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 4:12:24 AM, innomen wrote:
At 11/26/2011 4:08:32 AM, Maikuru wrote:
If a user violates the site's terms, they should go. If they don't, they should stay. What is all this?

If this, then we would lose about a third of our members.

So be it.

If you'd like, institute a strikes or temporary ban system. The moral of the story is frequent rule breakers should leave. We shouldn't need to resort to silly games to keep the site in order.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

https://i.imgflip.com...
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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11/26/2011 4:24:41 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'd also like to solicit here for someone to take up his defense. It is not a prerequisite to believe he is innocent and should remain here, but rather the debater possesses the skills needed to mount a strong and fair case for the defendant. Ideally the defendant should agree to the defender, but in izbo's case the court understands the inherent challenges in a cooperative relationship between client and his defense attorney.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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11/26/2011 4:25:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I would like to argue in defence of Izbo10.
I believe, despite his 'violations' of the T&S, that he is a valuable member of the community. He is not your regular troll and I am quite partial to him.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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11/26/2011 4:29:25 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 4:25:03 AM, tvellalott wrote:
I would like to argue in defence of Izbo10.
I believe, despite his 'violations' of the T&S, that he is a valuable member of the community. He is not your regular troll and I am quite partial to him.

I'm okay win this, unless there may be an accusation of bias since you are running with me, but if it's okay with izbo it's okay with me.

I would advise you to assemble a team and contact your would be client.
jm_notguilty
Posts: 683
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11/26/2011 4:32:09 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 4:25:03 AM, tvellalott wrote:
I would like to argue in defence of Izbo10.
I believe, despite his 'violations' of the T&S, that he is a valuable member of the community. He is not your regular troll and I am quite partial to him.

Count me in if you're interested in a co-counsel. I can be consistent on defending his actions.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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11/26/2011 4:48:52 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 4:32:09 AM, jm_notguilty wrote:
At 11/26/2011 4:25:03 AM, tvellalott wrote:
I would like to argue in defence of Izbo10.
I believe, despite his 'violations' of the T&S, that he is a valuable member of the community. He is not your regular troll and I am quite partial to him.

Count me in if you're interested in a co-counsel. I can be consistent on defending his actions.

Then I advise you TV and anyone else you wish on your team to contact your client in a group PM, then we will put together a pm with both sides to work out the details. There is a considerable team of members prosecuting, just as an FYI, and anyone designated on the team should not be eligible to vote.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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11/26/2011 5:29:43 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Fvck it actually.
Someone else can defend him; I changed my mind. I think he is beyond help.
I don't want to dedicate a minute to defending him.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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11/26/2011 6:09:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 3:14:01 AM, innomen wrote:
I've decided the site will make one determination whether he should go or stay and it will come through a trial in the form of a debate.

Izbo must have a defense, and i strongly recommend that Izbo not defend himself, the prosecutors will be represented by one person, but most likely will have a team.

I will be the judge in that i will carry out the sentence, and this will determine whether Izbo will or will not stay. Other sentences may include less severe ones like temporarily banning, or removal of voting abilities.

I open this for discussion, but i believe this to be the best course to help resolve Izbo.

Sounds rather vague. What is/are the alleged offenses? What is the standard of proof required? What are the elements which must be proved and in what order?
EG... Is he accused of abusing the site? First one must prove he had some sort of duty to "not abuse"...very difficult. Next establish he breached the duty and then that there was some sort of damage as a result of his breach. Believing hes a jerk r just wrong headed shouldn't be sufficient.

Standards of proof are. preponderance of evidence (over 50%), Convincing evidence (60%) clear and convincing (75%) and beyond and to the exclusion of any reasonable doubt (99%)

In short, Please be specific?
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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11/26/2011 6:22:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 4:22:41 AM, Maikuru wrote:
At 11/26/2011 4:12:24 AM, innomen wrote:
At 11/26/2011 4:08:32 AM, Maikuru wrote:
If a user violates the site's terms, they should go. If they don't, they should stay. What is all this?

If this, then we would lose about a third of our members.

So be it.

If you'd like, institute a strikes or temporary ban system. The moral of the story is frequent rule breakers should leave. We shouldn't need to resort to silly games to keep the site in order.

Silly games are fun - a little bit of pretending the site is more important than it is can be quite healthy for it.
wierdman
Posts: 721
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11/26/2011 7:26:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 6:22:22 AM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 11/26/2011 4:22:41 AM, Maikuru wrote:
At 11/26/2011 4:12:24 AM, innomen wrote:
At 11/26/2011 4:08:32 AM, Maikuru wrote:
If a user violates the site's terms, they should go. If they don't, they should stay. What is all this?

If this, then we would lose about a third of our members.

So be it.

If you'd like, institute a strikes or temporary ban system. The moral of the story is frequent rule breakers should leave. We shouldn't need to resort to silly games to keep the site in order.

Silly games are fun - a little bit of pretending the site is more important than it is can be quite healthy for it.

This is a waste of time. If he does loose the case, then what is to stop him from opening a new account?
marcuscato
Posts: 738
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11/26/2011 7:51:57 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 3:28:00 AM, innomen wrote:
I will be the judge, but the votes by the site will be the jury determining your guilt or innocence.

On what basis will the jury be chosen? is everybody allowed to vote-that would set a bad precedent, you would need an unbiased jury. Defense would need to be given a chance to vet the jury.
More importantly, on what basis is Izbo being tried? Can you post incident of rule breaking and relevant rule?
If you want to try a man for stealing you'd need to specify which act of stealing is under consideration and what rules are pertinent to the act. Otherwise this would just be an organised forum to express anti-Izbo sentiments.
Then again is this just a way to get DDO to get its frustration out of its system?
How do we know that this is not just an election-oriented move? Is populist measure is based on ulterior motives(elections)?
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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11/26/2011 8:21:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Innonmen is playing pretend time again like he has any actual power, it is so cute.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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11/26/2011 8:47:47 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 7:51:57 AM, marcuscato wrote:
At 11/26/2011 3:28:00 AM, innomen wrote:
I will be the judge, but the votes by the site will be the jury determining your guilt or innocence.

On what basis will the jury be chosen? is everybody allowed to vote-that would set a bad precedent, you would need an unbiased jury. Defense would need to be given a chance to vet the jury.
More importantly, on what basis is Izbo being tried? Can you post incident of rule breaking and relevant rule?
If you want to try a man for stealing you'd need to specify which act of stealing is under consideration and what rules are pertinent to the act. Otherwise this would just be an organised forum to express anti-Izbo sentiments.
Then again is this just a way to get DDO to get its frustration out of its system?
How do we know that this is not just an election-oriented move? Is populist measure is based on ulterior motives(elections)?

Well, I don't believe he has an ulterior motive, reason being is that would require actually being able to connect dots, between two trains of thought and he has shown no ability to do that. So, it is just him playing a game of oh look at me I have fake power. I can pretend like I can ban someone.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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11/26/2011 8:49:53 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I am defending myself, as most of this board couldn't make a valid case for anything. So, I will defend myself. This ought to be funny.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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11/26/2011 8:57:10 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
This is a cool idea, I could see a good case for Izbo. Although, I think we need to establish somethings before everybody votes. People have a premeditated bias against Izbo, and there are some out here that would think it popular and appropriate to vote in favor of the prosecution without any real or fair reflection on the arguments made. If we are to pick a jury, I say let only people who have been neutral vote.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
marcuscato
Posts: 738
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11/26/2011 9:06:15 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 8:49:53 AM, izbo10 wrote:
I am defending myself, as most of this board couldn't make a valid case for anything. So, I will defend myself. This ought to be funny.

Many debates will be inspired by this. One of them will probably be, DDO should provide izbo a "lawyer" even though he doesnt want one on the grounds that he cannot decide what is best for him.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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11/26/2011 9:16:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 9:06:15 AM, marcuscato wrote:
At 11/26/2011 8:49:53 AM, izbo10 wrote:
I am defending myself, as most of this board couldn't make a valid case for anything. So, I will defend myself. This ought to be funny.

Many debates will be inspired by this. One of them will probably be, DDO should provide izbo a "lawyer" even though he doesnt want one on the grounds that he cannot decide what is best for him.

I can decide and am one of the few here who actually understands what a valid argument.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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11/26/2011 9:21:16 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/26/2011 9:16:03 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 11/26/2011 9:06:15 AM, marcuscato wrote:
At 11/26/2011 8:49:53 AM, izbo10 wrote:
I am defending myself, as most of this board couldn't make a valid case for anything. So, I will defend myself. This ought to be funny.

Many debates will be inspired by this. One of them will probably be, DDO should provide izbo a "lawyer" even though he doesnt want one on the grounds that he cannot decide what is best for him.

I can decide and am one of the few here who actually understands what a valid argument.

If you're serious about staying on this website you'll stop damaging your defense before it has even been conceived.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault