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Starting to miss askbob

darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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12/1/2011 11:22:53 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
So as a lot of you are aware, I've been a critic of askbob. However, although I didn't like his mannerisms, I miss his economic feedback. We were both right wing keynesians. I'm now a keynesian stuck in a whirlpool of austrians.
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inferno
Posts: 10,638
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12/1/2011 11:25:00 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/1/2011 11:22:53 AM, darkkermit wrote:
So as a lot of you are aware, I've been a critic of askbob. However, although I didn't like his mannerisms, I miss his economic feedback. We were both right wing keynesians. I'm now a keynesian stuck in a whirlpool of austrians.

Kermit. You cant be that naive, are you. Askbob is still here, but he is under another name. I wont say who he is though. You will have to take a wild guess.
But yes, he is still here.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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12/1/2011 11:31:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Right, he's likely Viper-King.

Eh thinking about it....I really just want a right wing keynesian w/ a good economics background to be my side in the economics forums.
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inferno
Posts: 10,638
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12/1/2011 11:34:41 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/1/2011 11:31:44 AM, darkkermit wrote:
Right, he's likely Viper-King.

Eh thinking about it....I really just want a right wing keynesian w/ a good economics background to be my side in the economics forums.

I know just as much about the Right as much as you do. I think that both parties are equally flawed for various reasons. Of course, we all have the right to associate ourselves with whoever we desire. I understand and would never knock you for being a Republican.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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12/1/2011 11:39:46 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/1/2011 11:22:53 AM, darkkermit wrote:
So as a lot of you are aware, I've been a critic of askbob. However, although I didn't like his mannerisms, I miss his economic feedback. We were both right wing keynesians. I'm now a keynesian stuck in a whirlpool of austrians.

What's a right-wing Kenynesian? Sounds contradictory on the face of it.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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12/1/2011 11:42:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/1/2011 11:34:41 AM, inferno wrote:
At 12/1/2011 11:31:44 AM, darkkermit wrote:
Right, he's likely Viper-King.

Eh thinking about it....I really just want a right wing keynesian w/ a good economics background to be my side in the economics forums.

I know just as much about the Right as much as you do. I think that both parties are equally flawed for various reasons. Of course, we all have the right to associate ourselves with whoever we desire. I understand and would never knock you for being a Republican.

By right, I'm referring to economically right. I'm socially liberal. Many of the economic right on DDO follow austrian economics. Keynesian economics is kind of a left-leaning ideology however it's not necessarily anti-free markets, just believes that the money supply should be controlled and that monetary policy and possibly fiscal policy in worst case scenarios should be used to prime the pump of the economy. I wouldn't consider it completely leftist though since It's not too controversial of a mainstream idea and I prefer cuts in taxes over fiscal stimulus to stimulated the economy.
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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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12/1/2011 11:45:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/1/2011 11:39:46 AM, Kinesis wrote:
At 12/1/2011 11:22:53 AM, darkkermit wrote:
So as a lot of you are aware, I've been a critic of askbob. However, although I didn't like his mannerisms, I miss his economic feedback. We were both right wing keynesians. I'm now a keynesian stuck in a whirlpool of austrians.

What's a right-wing Kenynesian? Sounds contradictory on the face of it.

Right-wing is a spectrum. Those on the farther right reject Keynesian altogether. However, you can still believe in some of the Keynesian ideas and be in favor of free trade and capitalism.

Even Milton Friedman didn't reject Keynesian economics completely, but critiqued it quite a bit.
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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12/1/2011 12:00:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Well, if needed, I can get back into the economics thread. I left it awhile ago because of the one-sidedness of it.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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12/1/2011 12:52:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/1/2011 12:00:19 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Well, if needed, I can get back into the economics thread. I left it awhile ago because of the one-sidedness of it.

Thanks, although remember I'm still free-market oriented so I will unlikely defend leftist policies. I'll only argue against far right positions.
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Viper-King
Posts: 4,822
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12/1/2011 8:05:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/1/2011 11:31:44 AM, darkkermit wrote:
Right, he's likely Viper-King.
I'm not Askob. I'm Viper King.
Eh thinking about it....I really just want a right wing keynesian w/ a good economics background to be my side in the economics forums.

I'm independent and we all respect your views. Except maybe Izbo10.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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12/2/2011 10:26:40 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/1/2011 12:52:21 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 12/1/2011 12:00:19 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Well, if needed, I can get back into the economics thread. I left it awhile ago because of the one-sidedness of it.

Thanks, although remember I'm still free-market oriented so I will unlikely defend leftist policies. I'll only argue against far right positions.

I think you'll find that I don't differ too much from you on the general idea, only on where the line is drawn.

Anyway, a bunch of ideas is always a good thing.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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12/2/2011 12:49:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I generally agree with you dark with some notable exceptions: monopoly creates an unfree market and some minimal anti trust laws are needed. Other than that, i would say i agree with you in most areas, but some of the discussions i find pedantic and out of touch with any application.
darkkermit
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12/2/2011 1:15:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/2/2011 12:49:57 PM, innomen wrote:
I generally agree with you dark with some notable exceptions: monopoly creates an unfree market and some minimal anti trust laws are needed. Other than that, i would say i agree with you in most areas, but some of the discussions i find pedantic and out of touch with any application.

Note that I'm actually in favor of anti-trust laws. I've never stated that I'm pro-monopolization, just that sometimes monopolization is bad and sometimes it is good.

If a monopoly forms because a business provides a superior product or a cheap product that other corporations can't compete at the same level, I'm in favor of monopolization.

If a monopoly is formed via controlling the supply, and merging then I'm against it. De Beers is an example of a bad monopoly since the monopoly power was obtained just by controlling the diamond supply.

Competition is everywhere. It's just a matter If the monopoly formed via doing good
or from rigging the game.
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Homo_Sacer
Posts: 63
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12/2/2011 1:42:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm not very adept at economics, particularly as regards the specific, formalized theories and their complex mathematical counterparts. What are the fundamental features of (and differences between) Keynesianism and Austrianism?
darkkermit
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12/2/2011 1:52:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/2/2011 1:42:23 PM, Homo_Sacer wrote:
I'm not very adept at economics, particularly as regards the specific, formalized theories and their complex mathematical counterparts. What are the fundamental features of (and differences between) Keynesianism and Austrianism?

In the simplest way I can explain it, here are the main differences:

Keynesian - Believe that printing and creating money and fiat money (money that the government issues) is good for the economy. Banking should be centralized and regulated. They also believe that government can have a positive role in economic development.

Austrian - Believe that printing and creating money is bad. Money should be created via the free market (Ex: Gold standard). Banks and financial institutions should be deregulated. Some (not all) even believe that security and law should also exist in a free market. Essentially, the government can never have a positive role in economic development.
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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12/2/2011 1:56:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/2/2011 1:52:39 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 12/2/2011 1:42:23 PM, Homo_Sacer wrote:
I'm not very adept at economics, particularly as regards the specific, formalized theories and their complex mathematical counterparts. What are the fundamental features of (and differences between) Keynesianism and Austrianism?

In the simplest way I can explain it, here are the main differences:

Keynesian - Believe that printing and creating money and fiat money (money that the government issues) is good for the economy. Banking should be centralized and regulated. They also believe that government can have a positive role in economic development.

Austrian - Believe that printing and creating money is bad. Money should be created via the free market (Ex: Gold standard). Banks and financial institutions should be deregulated. Some (not all) even believe that security and law should also exist in a free market. Essentially, the government can never have a positive role in economic development.

You forgot to include in your Keynesian description that the government can have a positive or negative effect, vs. no effect.

It should also be noted that even if the government could have a positive economic impact, some Austrians think that government interference is simply not morally justified even if it has the potential to yield positive results.
President of DDO
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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12/2/2011 2:09:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/2/2011 1:56:31 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 12/2/2011 1:52:39 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 12/2/2011 1:42:23 PM, Homo_Sacer wrote:
I'm not very adept at economics, particularly as regards the specific, formalized theories and their complex mathematical counterparts. What are the fundamental features of (and differences between) Keynesianism and Austrianism?

In the simplest way I can explain it, here are the main differences:

Keynesian - Believe that printing and creating money and fiat money (money that the government issues) is good for the economy. Banking should be centralized and regulated. They also believe that government can have a positive role in economic development.

Austrian - Believe that printing and creating money is bad. Money should be created via the free market (Ex: Gold standard). Banks and financial institutions should be deregulated. Some (not all) even believe that security and law should also exist in a free market. Essentially, the government can never have a positive role in economic development.

You forgot to include in your Keynesian description that the government can have a positive or negative effect, vs. no effect.

Stating that government can have a positive effect does not negate the statement that government can have a positive or negative effect. Keynesian economics looks more at what the government can do to dampen the effects of recessions, so its essential looks at positive forms of government.

It should also be noted that even if the government could have a positive economic impact, some Austrians think that government interference is simply not morally justified even if it has the potential to yield positive results.

Yea, but the Austrian usually doesn't just give the "property rights" argument and non-aggression principle to defend their views. It uses utilitarianism and conventionalism as well. I've never heard an Austrian state "Well yea, the government can provide sustainable economic growth, and reduce unemployment but I don't care about that because It violates property rights".

Also, I the non-aggression principle and property rights argument aren't necessarily essential to be an Austrian. Austrians kind of two branches: the economics branch and the philosophy branch.
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CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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12/2/2011 2:30:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Under my administration, askbob would have his ban revoked.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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12/2/2011 2:56:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/2/2011 2:30:06 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Under my administration, askbob would have his ban revoked.

No he wouldn't, because Juggle wouldn't allow it.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
TUF
Posts: 21,309
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4/1/2012 9:47:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Go find drafterman (askbob) and tell him to debate economics with you now.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227