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Posting Sources In Comments -Yea or Nay?

Raisor
Posts: 4,466
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12/7/2011 12:14:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Wondering where people stand on posting your sources for an argument in the comments rather than in the round itself.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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12/7/2011 12:17:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/7/2011 12:14:31 PM, Raisor wrote:
Wondering where people stand on posting your sources for an argument in the comments rather than in the round itself.

Nay, they get buried if there are a lot of comments.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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12/7/2011 12:20:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
But you can create a second debate for your long list of sources, then just link to that debate, much like this - http://www.debate.org...
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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12/7/2011 2:00:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Nay to posting sources in the comments or in a separate debate, as Ore_Ele suggested. The upper character limit should be more than enough room for arguments and sources.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/7/2011 2:02:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/7/2011 12:14:31 PM, Raisor wrote:
Wondering where people stand on posting your sources for an argument in the comments rather than in the round itself.
Definitely round. Some people are open for sources posted in the comments, but that is messy. The comments can eventually get filled up, and who would spend time looking for your sources through different pages on the comments section? This could cost you not only a conduct vote, but also sources vote. Be careful.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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12/7/2011 11:16:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/7/2011 12:14:31 PM, Raisor wrote:
Wondering where people stand on posting your sources for an argument in the comments rather than in the round itself.

The idea of sources not counting against you in the character limits sounds nice but I don't see any way it would work. Posting in the comments will get buried, and make more work for debaters and voters to verify them (you know what happens when you give people more work).

If there was a place underneath the debate round to list them that would be good, but I think it would ruin the clean visual that the debates currently have, not to mention will likely not be utilized properly.

Of course you can always just list this as a rule in a debate. As long as both participants agree, no one can say anything about it. Assuming of course all of the voters actually read the debate. Sadly, this can be a big "if".
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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12/7/2011 11:26:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I used to be for, but now I'm against. Posting sources in the debate reduces the space you have to make arguments. I'm starting to like this because I never have the trouble with character space most others do. I can get in an argument fine even with sources. But its probably a big problem for my opponent, which I feel is an advantage.

But thats just for my debates. For others' I don't really mind either way.
Chrysippus
Posts: 2,173
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12/7/2011 11:27:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I agree with most of those who have already posted; it's more courteous to your opponent and the voters to post your sources in-round. Most people have room to post sources, or would be better off writing less and sourcing more.

A sources usually only takes a couple dozen characters; if you absolutely cannot subtract anything from your argument (and I've been there, a few times), then ask your opponent for permission first (if you can) and tell us how many pages from the first comment your sources are. The actual page number will changes, but not the distance from the first comment.
Cavete mea inexorabilis legiones mimus!
Raisor
Posts: 4,466
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12/7/2011 11:34:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/7/2011 11:27:16 PM, Chrysippus wrote:
I agree with most of those who have already posted; it's more courteous to your opponent and the voters to post your sources in-round. Most people have room to post sources, or would be better off writing less and sourcing more.

A sources usually only takes a couple dozen characters; if you absolutely cannot subtract anything from your argument (and I've been there, a few times), then ask your opponent for permission first (if you can) and tell us how many pages from the first comment your sources are. The actual page number will changes, but not the distance from the first comment.

If you are in a policy-style debate, you are going to have way more than a couple dozen characters.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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12/7/2011 11:58:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
One thing I just thought of, since the all of the characters in the after the .com get cut off in debates and forum posts, the counter shouldn't count any of the characters afterward. If there was a way to do this I think that would be much more reasonable. Many URL's contain 50-100 characters. This page itself contains 33 characters just after the .org, which is not even bad.
Raisor
Posts: 4,466
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12/8/2011 12:54:25 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/7/2011 11:58:17 PM, Double_R wrote:
One thing I just thought of, since the all of the characters in the after the .com get cut off in debates and forum posts, the counter shouldn't count any of the characters afterward. If there was a way to do this I think that would be much more reasonable. Many URL's contain 50-100 characters. This page itself contains 33 characters just after the .org, which is not even bad.

Yes, but I think the text field counts all the characters, even though the stuff after .com is not displayed in the post.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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12/8/2011 1:37:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/8/2011 12:54:25 AM, Raisor wrote:
Yes, but I think the text field counts all the characters, even though the stuff after .com is not displayed in the post.

Yes, it does. That is my point. Take this page for example. Everything after the .org (/forums/debate.org/topic/16201/2/) is 33 characters. The system obviously senses this otherwise it would not be able to cut it off. Now if they could just find a way to get the counter to deduct the cut off portion of the URL as well, then posting this page as a source would cost 33 characters less. This greatly reduces the need to provide sources elsewhere without losing visual appeal, or making it more difficult to navigate through them.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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12/8/2011 6:48:40 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I say nay to sources in comments because not only is it difficult for the voters to find them but it is also difficult for your opponent to check them (since they are likely the only person who will check every one of your sources line by line). I am not opposed to an external link as it makes it EASIER rather than more difficult to refer to the sources. You can open the external sources link in a different window and check the sources as you read your opponent's argument. The regular style of putting sources at the bottom of your argument makes your opponent scroll up and down constantly. Voters will likely get tired of doing this and stop checking sources. The external page eliminates this as well as giving you extra character space. It is a win-win for both sides.

While we are on the topic of sources, I want to add that I am a definite nay to sourcing books as I think VERIFIABILITY is the most important attribute for a source. I usually have no problem docking source points from a debater whose majority of sources happened to be books.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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12/8/2011 10:34:47 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/7/2011 2:00:32 PM, Maikuru wrote:
Nay to posting sources in the comments or in a separate debate, as Ore_Ele suggested. The upper character limit should be more than enough room for arguments and sources.

Maybe for some people. I get strapped in almost every real debate I participate in.

I agree with OreEle although I think it should first be agreed upon by both debaters.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)