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Percentiles?

Hardcore.Pwnography
Posts: 4,720
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12/24/2011 1:47:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I just have a question.
I'm not quite sure how percentiles are calculated on DDO.
I have a better win ratio than some people. however they have better percentiles than I do. What else is factored into that number?

Thanks and Merry Christmas everyone.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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12/24/2011 1:59:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Its not about the win ratio, its about how many wins you have. I believe that it is quite stupid and needs to be reformed. Some members such as Ore_Ele have taken on the task of using a new scoring system called ELO.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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12/24/2011 3:23:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/24/2011 1:59:27 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Its not about the win ratio, its about how many wins you have. I believe that it is quite stupid and needs to be reformed. Some members such as Ore_Ele have taken on the task of using a new scoring system called ELO.

I wouldn't say stupid, but it is not the best system. Best would involve quality of the debates as well, but that's quite difficult. I'd prefer doing it on tourney wins and the like more than anything, but everyone has different views on the issue.
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Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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12/24/2011 3:25:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/24/2011 3:23:01 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 12/24/2011 1:59:27 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Its not about the win ratio, its about how many wins you have. I believe that it is quite stupid and needs to be reformed. Some members such as Ore_Ele have taken on the task of using a new scoring system called ELO.

I wouldn't say stupid, but it is not the best system. Best would involve quality of the debates as well, but that's quite difficult. I'd prefer doing it on tourney wins and the like more than anything, but everyone has different views on the issue.

A person who has 199 wins and 200 losses will be ranked higher than the guy with 198 wins and 2 losses. Tell me how that is OK.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/24/2011 4:53:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/24/2011 3:25:23 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 12/24/2011 3:23:01 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 12/24/2011 1:59:27 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Its not about the win ratio, its about how many wins you have. I believe that it is quite stupid and needs to be reformed. Some members such as Ore_Ele have taken on the task of using a new scoring system called ELO.

I wouldn't say stupid, but it is not the best system. Best would involve quality of the debates as well, but that's quite difficult. I'd prefer doing it on tourney wins and the like more than anything, but everyone has different views on the issue.

A person who has 199 wins and 200 losses will be ranked higher than the guy with 198 wins and 2 losses. Tell me how that is OK.

Well, technically, all competitions are factored that way. You won't win the olympics based on your performance throughout your entire athletic career.

An even better question is whether you believe wins and losses should hold the same weight? Because, under the same line of thinking, if losses were to affect one's score negatively proportionate to their wins, then someone with 1 win and no losses would have a higher score than someone with 2 wins and 2 losses.

That makes less sense to me.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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12/24/2011 6:19:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/24/2011 4:53:01 PM, Ren wrote:
At 12/24/2011 3:25:23 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 12/24/2011 3:23:01 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 12/24/2011 1:59:27 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Its not about the win ratio, its about how many wins you have. I believe that it is quite stupid and needs to be reformed. Some members such as Ore_Ele have taken on the task of using a new scoring system called ELO.

I wouldn't say stupid, but it is not the best system. Best would involve quality of the debates as well, but that's quite difficult. I'd prefer doing it on tourney wins and the like more than anything, but everyone has different views on the issue.

A person who has 199 wins and 200 losses will be ranked higher than the guy with 198 wins and 2 losses. Tell me how that is OK.

Well, technically, all competitions are factored that way. You won't win the olympics based on your performance throughout your entire athletic career.

An even better question is whether you believe wins and losses should hold the same weight? Because, under the same line of thinking, if losses were to affect one's score negatively proportionate to their wins, then someone with 1 win and no losses would have a higher score than someone with 2 wins and 2 losses.

That makes less sense to me.

I believe that percentile should be factored by the win ratio. And yes, the example makes perfect sense.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
LiberalHoyaLawya
Posts: 17
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12/26/2011 9:55:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The percentile / rating system definitely needs to be overhauled, because I never see any percentiles below 50%. Consider the percentiles of some of my opponents.

One opponent with a 1-5-3 record (78.08%):
http://www.debate.org...

One opponent with no completed debates (77.63%): http://www.debate.org...

One opponent with an 0-1 record (55.83%):
http://www.debate.org...

An ELO rating system - which would take into account the strength of your opponent - would be a vast improvement over the current system.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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12/26/2011 2:46:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The ELO system Ore_Ele put together is conceptually the best system by far. A system based on wins alone encourages quantity over quality and a straight winning percentage system encourages debater who get off to a good start to slow down.

ELO takes into account your number of wins encouraging debaters to participate and gain more experience further increasing quality, winning percentage which encourages debaters to make serious arguments, and who you debate which encourages the top members to challenge each other. No other system takes all of this into account, and when looking at the rankings the best debaters are all among the top rankings while those that should not be in the top percentiles are not.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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12/26/2011 2:51:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Sorry, not to derail the thread but Lordknuckle is correct. The current system is based on number of wins, however it updates something like once every two weeks so if you notice something out of place that's probably why.
jm_notguilty
Posts: 683
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12/26/2011 3:12:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/26/2011 2:46:43 PM, Double_R wrote:
The ELO system Ore_Ele put together is conceptually the best system by far. A system based on wins alone encourages quantity over quality and a straight winning percentage system encourages debater who get off to a good start to slow down.

ELO takes into account your number of wins encouraging debaters to participate and gain more experience further increasing quality, winning percentage which encourages debaters to make serious arguments, and who you debate which encourages the top members to challenge each other. No other system takes all of this into account, and when looking at the rankings the best debaters are all among the top rankings while those that should not be in the top percentiles are not.

Sadly, we won't get any ELO updates indefinitely since Ore_Ele told me that he's got no statistics since the guy working for Juggle giving him the stats quit or got fired, IDK.

But yah, the ELO rankings are more accurate imo.