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000ike
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1/28/2012 11:35:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
We need a way to identify good and bad voters and punish/reward depending.

We should input a thumbs up/thumbs down rating system for votes on a debate. This way, those consistently making well thought out RFDs and fair and unbias decisions will be ranked as a top Voter.

Then when creating new debates, we could have a feature that allows you to prevent people from voting that are below a certain Vote Rating.

It seems that some very good quality debates are laid to waste by individuals that skim through what a debater spent hours typing, and making a short, poorly supported, and often bias decision.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
16kadams
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1/28/2012 11:36:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
sure why not
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16kadams
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1/28/2012 11:37:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
few problems:
what if a troll dislikes all of the votes, then we would need counter like teams

what if someone who hates you dislikes the votes.

I agree with the general concept though.
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000ike
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1/28/2012 11:39:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 11:37:40 PM, 16kadams wrote:
few problems:
what if a troll dislikes all of the votes, then we would need counter like teams

what if a troll votes against you?

what if someone who hates you dislikes the votes.

what if someone who hates you votes against you?

I agree with the general concept though.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
16kadams
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1/28/2012 11:44:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 11:39:00 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:37:40 PM, 16kadams wrote:
few problems:
what if a troll dislikes all of the votes, then we would need counter like teams

what if a troll votes against you?

what if someone who hates you dislikes the votes.

what if someone who hates you votes against you?

I agree with the general concept though.

My point this just adds one thing they can vote against you on.
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jimtimmy
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1/28/2012 11:51:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 11:40:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:
It just adds a second dimension to vote-bombing.

This is what I was thinking too.
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16kadams
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1/29/2012 12:01:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 11:40:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:
It just adds a second dimension to vote-bombing.

we thought the same thing
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imabench
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1/29/2012 12:08:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/29/2012 12:01:16 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:40:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:
It just adds a second dimension to vote-bombing.

we thought the same thing

Yeah but there's no actual harm done. Votebombing before could cause entire debates to be completely corrupted but giving thumbs down on votes doesnt do any harm at all....
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darkkermit
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1/29/2012 12:12:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/29/2012 12:08:28 AM, imabench wrote:
At 1/29/2012 12:01:16 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:40:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:
It just adds a second dimension to vote-bombing.

we thought the same thing

Yeah but there's no actual harm done. Votebombing before could cause entire debates to be completely corrupted but giving thumbs down on votes doesnt do any harm at all....

Yes it does. If your score is too low, then you can't vote on debates. If we assume that vote bombing is a problem, then there's no reason why scores won't be vote bombed. If vote bombing isn't that serious of a problem, then its less likely this feature will be abused, but less likely this problem will occur.
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imabench
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1/29/2012 12:36:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/29/2012 12:12:47 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/29/2012 12:08:28 AM, imabench wrote:
At 1/29/2012 12:01:16 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/28/2012 11:40:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:
It just adds a second dimension to vote-bombing.

we thought the same thing

Yeah but there's no actual harm done. Votebombing before could cause entire debates to be completely corrupted but giving thumbs down on votes doesnt do any harm at all....

Yes it does. If your score is too low, then you can't vote on debates. If we assume that vote bombing is a problem, then there's no reason why scores won't be vote bombed. If vote bombing isn't that serious of a problem, then its less likely this feature will be abused, but less likely this problem will occur.

ah that makes sense......
(changes opinion to be against rating votes)
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
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Double_R
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1/29/2012 2:19:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I definitely agree that a system like this could not be used to punish bad voters because of issues with trolls and votebombers, but I also think this could be a great tool to measure good voters.

I propose that we have a system just like what Ike suggested, but one where you can only give a thumbs up. Votebombers would not be able to do any harm and those that provide accurate and thoughtful RFD's would be recognized for it. This would provide an incentive for others to provide good RFD's which would likely have an overall positive effect on the quality of voting.

Simply put, stopping trolls from trolling is not realistic. Encouraging members to be more productive is very realistic.
MasterKage
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1/29/2012 9:10:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 11:37:40 PM, 16kadams wrote:
few problems:
what if a troll dislikes all of the votes, then we would need counter like teams
I'm assuming that one person can only dislike each vote once, so if it's a adequate then there will probably be likes on it, so the one dislike will have no effect.

what if someone who hates you dislikes the votes.
Again, one dislike to an adequate won't make any difference.

I agree with the general concept though.
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OberHerr
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1/29/2012 9:13:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Problem is, once again, this is measured by opinion.

I think there should be a way to block voting ability, but this is not the way.
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16kadams
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1/29/2012 9:14:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/29/2012 9:13:53 AM, OberHerr wrote:
Problem is, once again, this is measured by opinion.

I think there should be a way to block voting ability, but this is not the way.

Just say I do not want X voting on the debate if he does it's a VB
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OberHerr
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1/29/2012 9:15:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/29/2012 2:19:37 AM, Double_R wrote:
I definitely agree that a system like this could not be used to punish bad voters because of issues with trolls and votebombers, but I also think this could be a great tool to measure good voters.

I propose that we have a system just like what Ike suggested, but one where you can only give a thumbs up. Votebombers would not be able to do any harm and those that provide accurate and thoughtful RFD's would be recognized for it. This would provide an incentive for others to provide good RFD's which would likely have an overall positive effect on the quality of voting.

Simply put, stopping trolls from trolling is not realistic. Encouraging members to be more productive is very realistic.

That is a good idea.

Would counter act VBing in a bad way perfectly.
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16kadams
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1/29/2012 9:17:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/29/2012 2:19:37 AM, Double_R wrote:
I definitely agree that a system like this could not be used to punish bad voters because of issues with trolls and votebombers, but I also think this could be a great tool to measure good voters.

I propose that we have a system just like what Ike suggested, but one where you can only give a thumbs up. Votebombers would not be able to do any harm and those that provide accurate and thoughtful RFD's would be recognized for it. This would provide an incentive for others to provide good RFD's which would likely have an overall positive effect on the quality of voting.

Simply put, stopping trolls from trolling is not realistic. Encouraging members to be more productive is very realistic.

That is a bad idea as then bad voters can keep an ok rank if a few people like and no dislike. Also VB ers can thumb up the bad votes 10 times. This system may fail, but let's try it.
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
000ike
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1/29/2012 9:22:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/29/2012 9:17:59 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/29/2012 2:19:37 AM, Double_R wrote:
I definitely agree that a system like this could not be used to punish bad voters because of issues with trolls and votebombers, but I also think this could be a great tool to measure good voters.

I propose that we have a system just like what Ike suggested, but one where you can only give a thumbs up. Votebombers would not be able to do any harm and those that provide accurate and thoughtful RFD's would be recognized for it. This would provide an incentive for others to provide good RFD's which would likely have an overall positive effect on the quality of voting.

Simply put, stopping trolls from trolling is not realistic. Encouraging members to be more productive is very realistic.

That is a bad idea as then bad voters can keep an ok rank if a few people like and no dislike. Also VB ers can thumb up the bad votes 10 times. This system may fail, but let's try it.

at this point your paranoia is a bit unfounded. We could just as well use the same logic to eliminate voting on debates all together! Opinion matters, there will be some trolls, but most people are not trolls.

If we had no fear in trusting the DDO community to vote on who shall be a top debater, then we should have no fear in trusting the DDO community to vote on the top Voters.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
16kadams
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1/29/2012 9:27:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/29/2012 9:22:27 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/29/2012 9:17:59 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/29/2012 2:19:37 AM, Double_R wrote:
I definitely agree that a system like this could not be used to punish bad voters because of issues with trolls and votebombers, but I also think this could be a great tool to measure good voters.

I propose that we have a system just like what Ike suggested, but one where you can only give a thumbs up. Votebombers would not be able to do any harm and those that provide accurate and thoughtful RFD's would be recognized for it. This would provide an incentive for others to provide good RFD's which would likely have an overall positive effect on the quality of voting.

Simply put, stopping trolls from trolling is not realistic. Encouraging members to be more productive is very realistic.

That is a bad idea as then bad voters can keep an ok rank if a few people like and no dislike. Also VB ers can thumb up the bad votes 10 times. This system may fail, but let's try it.

at this point your paranoia is a bit unfounded. We could just as well use the same logic to eliminate voting on debates all together! Opinion matters, there will be some trolls, but most people are not trolls.

We need votes to see who wins, and this just adds another platform where trolls can make "good voters" so they can vote and spam most debates. Also we would have to have it for a month before we had the system where you could block their votes we would have an accurate voting record. Every person would need a month of voting before they could get banned as they would have no record, and a month would create one. SO you would not be able to block people always.

If we had no fear in trusting the DDO community to vote on who shall be a top debater, then we should have no fear in trusting the DDO community to vote on the top Voters.

We vote on winners, not best debaters. The amount of debates matters more with then win ratio. (on the percentile) so we do not choose best debater, and choosing the best voter this way is once again a second field for VB's.
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royalpaladin
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1/29/2012 9:32:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
There should be a system that permits one to block individuals who are biased against her. It should probably be added to the "block" function.
darkkermit
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1/29/2012 12:22:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/29/2012 9:22:27 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/29/2012 9:17:59 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/29/2012 2:19:37 AM, Double_R wrote:
I definitely agree that a system like this could not be used to punish bad voters because of issues with trolls and votebombers, but I also think this could be a great tool to measure good voters.

I propose that we have a system just like what Ike suggested, but one where you can only give a thumbs up. Votebombers would not be able to do any harm and those that provide accurate and thoughtful RFD's would be recognized for it. This would provide an incentive for others to provide good RFD's which would likely have an overall positive effect on the quality of voting.

Simply put, stopping trolls from trolling is not realistic. Encouraging members to be more productive is very realistic.

That is a bad idea as then bad voters can keep an ok rank if a few people like and no dislike. Also VB ers can thumb up the bad votes 10 times. This system may fail, but let's try it.

at this point your paranoia is a bit unfounded. We could just as well use the same logic to eliminate voting on debates all together! Opinion matters, there will be some trolls, but most people are not trolls.

So then why even bother? If only a small fraction are trolls, its not enough to impact the debate.

If we had no fear in trusting the DDO community to vote on who shall be a top debater, then we should have no fear in trusting the DDO community to vote on the top Voters.

Well isn't the whole reason the rate vote system is put in place, is because you can't trust the community to vote on debates properly?
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000ike
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1/29/2012 12:25:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/29/2012 12:22:03 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/29/2012 9:22:27 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/29/2012 9:17:59 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/29/2012 2:19:37 AM, Double_R wrote:
I definitely agree that a system like this could not be used to punish bad voters because of issues with trolls and votebombers, but I also think this could be a great tool to measure good voters.

I propose that we have a system just like what Ike suggested, but one where you can only give a thumbs up. Votebombers would not be able to do any harm and those that provide accurate and thoughtful RFD's would be recognized for it. This would provide an incentive for others to provide good RFD's which would likely have an overall positive effect on the quality of voting.

Simply put, stopping trolls from trolling is not realistic. Encouraging members to be more productive is very realistic.

That is a bad idea as then bad voters can keep an ok rank if a few people like and no dislike. Also VB ers can thumb up the bad votes 10 times. This system may fail, but let's try it.

at this point your paranoia is a bit unfounded. We could just as well use the same logic to eliminate voting on debates all together! Opinion matters, there will be some trolls, but most people are not trolls.

So then why even bother? If only a small fraction are trolls, its not enough to impact the debate.

If we had no fear in trusting the DDO community to vote on who shall be a top debater, then we should have no fear in trusting the DDO community to vote on the top Voters.


Well isn't the whole reason the rate vote system is put in place, is because you can't trust the community to vote on debates properly?

no, its because I can't trust a few people to vote properly.
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Man-is-good
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1/29/2012 12:27:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Just out of curiosity, does anyone consider me to be a vote-bomber (other than Mikee)?
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darkkermit
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1/29/2012 12:31:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/29/2012 12:25:33 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/29/2012 12:22:03 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/29/2012 9:22:27 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/29/2012 9:17:59 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/29/2012 2:19:37 AM, Double_R wrote:
I definitely agree that a system like this could not be used to punish bad voters because of issues with trolls and votebombers, but I also think this could be a great tool to measure good voters.

I propose that we have a system just like what Ike suggested, but one where you can only give a thumbs up. Votebombers would not be able to do any harm and those that provide accurate and thoughtful RFD's would be recognized for it. This would provide an incentive for others to provide good RFD's which would likely have an overall positive effect on the quality of voting.

Simply put, stopping trolls from trolling is not realistic. Encouraging members to be more productive is very realistic.

That is a bad idea as then bad voters can keep an ok rank if a few people like and no dislike. Also VB ers can thumb up the bad votes 10 times. This system may fail, but let's try it.

at this point your paranoia is a bit unfounded. We could just as well use the same logic to eliminate voting on debates all together! Opinion matters, there will be some trolls, but most people are not trolls.

So then why even bother? If only a small fraction are trolls, its not enough to impact the debate.

If we had no fear in trusting the DDO community to vote on who shall be a top debater, then we should have no fear in trusting the DDO community to vote on the top Voters.


Well isn't the whole reason the rate vote system is put in place, is because you can't trust the community to vote on debates properly?

no, its because I can't trust a few people to vote properly.

Yet, the probability of them voting on your debates are low anyways and if the vote rate system is implemented, what makes you think the "conservative voting block" (i'm guessing this is the people your referring to ) isn't going to rate their votes high to get their voting privileges back.

The system only works if the community works, but if the community works anyways there shouldn't be too much of a fear of votebombing anyways, since voters often time counter votebombs.
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darkkermit
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1/29/2012 12:34:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/29/2012 9:32:08 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
There should be a system that permits one to block individuals who are biased against her. It should probably be added to the "block" function.

Except, that's unfair for your opponent, since you could essentially block anyone who you think is going to vote against you, and only allow bias members to vote.

Now If your opponent wants to play the same game, you essentially get no people voting since everyone's already been blocked :p.
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thett3
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1/29/2012 12:59:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/28/2012 11:35:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
We need a way to identify good and bad voters and punish/reward depending.

We should input a thumbs up/thumbs down rating system for votes on a debate. This way, those consistently making well thought out RFDs and fair and unbias decisions will be ranked as a top Voter.

Then when creating new debates, we could have a feature that allows you to prevent people from voting that are below a certain Vote Rating.

It seems that some very good quality debates are laid to waste by individuals that skim through what a debater spent hours typing, and making a short, poorly supported, and often bias decision.

Agreed. And to everyone saying that people will just thumb down votes for no reason, all we need to do is allow you to see who thumbed down the votes, and then problem solved.
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Double_R
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1/29/2012 2:18:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/29/2012 9:17:59 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/29/2012 2:19:37 AM, Double_R wrote:
I definitely agree that a system like this could not be used to punish bad voters because of issues with trolls and votebombers, but I also think this could be a great tool to measure good voters.

I propose that we have a system just like what Ike suggested, but one where you can only give a thumbs up. Votebombers would not be able to do any harm and those that provide accurate and thoughtful RFD's would be recognized for it. This would provide an incentive for others to provide good RFD's which would likely have an overall positive effect on the quality of voting.

Simply put, stopping trolls from trolling is not realistic. Encouraging members to be more productive is very realistic.

That is a bad idea as then bad voters can keep an ok rank if a few people like and no dislike. Also VB ers can thumb up the bad votes 10 times. This system may fail, but let's try it.

No. If someone votes 20 times and gets 2 thumbs up that would not be considered good. The good voters would be the ones that get far more thumbs up then average. The bad voters are the ones who hardly get any. Votebombers would not be able to give 10 thumbs down. That is just silly.
Double_R
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1/29/2012 2:19:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/29/2012 9:17:59 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/29/2012 2:19:37 AM, Double_R wrote:
I definitely agree that a system like this could not be used to punish bad voters because of issues with trolls and votebombers, but I also think this could be a great tool to measure good voters.

I propose that we have a system just like what Ike suggested, but one where you can only give a thumbs up. Votebombers would not be able to do any harm and those that provide accurate and thoughtful RFD's would be recognized for it. This would provide an incentive for others to provide good RFD's which would likely have an overall positive effect on the quality of voting.

Simply put, stopping trolls from trolling is not realistic. Encouraging members to be more productive is very realistic.

That is a bad idea as then bad voters can keep an ok rank if a few people like and no dislike. Also VB ers can thumb up the bad votes 10 times. This system may fail, but let's try it.

lol. I didn't even catch that.
darkkermit
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1/29/2012 2:30:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/29/2012 2:19:06 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/29/2012 9:17:59 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/29/2012 2:19:37 AM, Double_R wrote:
I definitely agree that a system like this could not be used to punish bad voters because of issues with trolls and votebombers, but I also think this could be a great tool to measure good voters.

I propose that we have a system just like what Ike suggested, but one where you can only give a thumbs up. Votebombers would not be able to do any harm and those that provide accurate and thoughtful RFD's would be recognized for it. This would provide an incentive for others to provide good RFD's which would likely have an overall positive effect on the quality of voting.

Simply put, stopping trolls from trolling is not realistic. Encouraging members to be more productive is very realistic.

That is a bad idea as then bad voters can keep an ok rank if a few people like and no dislike. Also VB ers can thumb up the bad votes 10 times. This system may fail, but let's try it.

lol. I didn't even catch that.

it isn't worth the cost of implementing a system that might not be effective or even harmful. There's a list of things the president petitions Juggle to do. This doesn't seem to be high on the list.
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