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A debate film...

leet4A1
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6/15/2009 9:35:39 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Hey guys, just came across this during one of my random strolls through Wikipedia. A film about some debate team from the 30s: http://en.wikipedia.org...

Has anyone seen it? Is it worth downloading? It doesn't look like there's much actual debating going on in the movie.

While we're on the topic, has anyone seen any other films based on debate which are worth a look?
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
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6/15/2009 10:17:21 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/15/2009 10:14:13 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:


Haha, give it a chance old son! You've got an itchy tumbleweed finger by the looks of things.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
leet4A1
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6/16/2009 5:46:21 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
This movie was excellent by the way, strongly recommended.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
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6/16/2009 5:56:58 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/16/2009 5:51:36 PM, wjmelements wrote:
It looks like a "let's revisit racism" movie.

Yeah, that plays a big part in the film and considering Oprah (*cough* racist *cough*) produced it, you can imagine it's all one-sided. It's a surprisingly good watch regardless.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
Logical-Master
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6/16/2009 6:01:38 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Eh, I didn't like the film. Don't get me wrong. It wasn't as if it was a crappy movie in general; it's just that for a film called "The Great Debaters", there certainly wasn't anything great about them. The film was more concerned with saying "racism is wrong" rather than exploring and observing debate for what it was. Not to mention that we really didn't even have much of an opportunity to observe the debaters' arguments. It was all about shallow rhetoric. At very least, I wish the film had taken the opportunity to put the debaters in a position where they are arguing in favor of something they don't believe or something which isn't politically. Sadly, there is no such moment in the film. They are always made out to argue in favor of what is constituted as "right" by our society. So in terms of a debate movie, I'd have to give it an F. It is very much a failure. That said, it is good in other areas.
leet4A1
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6/16/2009 6:07:24 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/16/2009 6:01:38 PM, Logical-Master wrote:
Eh, I didn't like the film. Don't get me wrong. It wasn't as if it was a crappy movie in general; it's just that for a film called "The Great Debaters", there certainly wasn't anything great about them. The film was more concerned with saying "racism is wrong" rather than exploring and observing debate for what it was. Not to mention that we really didn't even have much of an opportunity to observe the debaters' arguments. It was all about shallow rhetoric. At very least, I wish the film had taken the opportunity to put the debaters in a position where they are arguing in favor of something they don't believe or something which isn't politically. Sadly, there is no such moment in the film. They are always made out to argue in favor of what is constituted as "right" by our society. So in terms of a debate movie, I'd have to give it an F. It is very much a failure. That said, it is good in other areas.

Yeah, I'll agree with this. I found it odd that each debaters seemed only to get 30 seconds to present their arguments. It's a film made for the masses, though, and not just for debaters, which is why they probably went light on the debate scenes. And I do agree it would be much more interesting if in the final debate against Harvard, the blacks were debating FOR racial segregation and the whites were arguing against.

Are there any other movies revolving around debate which are better than this one that you know of LM?
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
Logical-Master
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6/16/2009 6:59:52 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Hmm. Well, I have seen parts of one movie (don't remember what it's called) that was focused on High school policy debate with some romance on the side. Can't say I was impressed with what I saw, although this may have been stimulated from that fact that policy debate SUCKS!

There aren't really that many known fictional films or series that focus on debate. I mean, Phoenix Wright does come close, but I wouldn't say it has all there is needed to completely satisfy someone who has a large interest in debating.

In fact, I had been writing the script for a manga series which would revolve around high school debating while exploring debate for what it was, covering issues on philosophy and psychology as well as include a pretty good amount of romance. Problem is---I had only written the script for the first 30 chapters in my freshman year and haven't really gotten the time to focus on it since then. Not to mention that it was all recorded on my previous laptop (which I no longer possess). :(
leet4A1
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6/16/2009 7:05:40 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/16/2009 6:59:52 PM, Logical-Master wrote:
Hmm. Well, I have seen parts of one movie (don't remember what it's called) that was focused on High school policy debate with some romance on the side. Can't say I was impressed with what I saw, although this may have been stimulated from that fact that policy debate SUCKS!

There aren't really that many known fictional films or series that focus on debate. I mean, Phoenix Wright does come close, but I wouldn't say it has all there is needed to completely satisfy someone who has a large interest in debating.

In fact, I had been writing the script for a manga series which would revolve around high school debating while exploring debate for what it was, covering issues on philosophy and psychology as well as include a pretty good amount of romance. Problem is---I had only written the script for the first 30 chapters in my freshman year and haven't really gotten the time to focus on it since then. Not to mention that it was all recorded on my previous laptop (which I no longer possess). :(

Cool! You ever get this bad boy written, I want a copy.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
sherlockmethod
Posts: 317
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6/17/2009 1:12:16 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I remember a movie with Kirk Cameron (groan) in it some years ago which focused on a college debate team with a debate on abortion in the finals. I will find out the name. Oh, and DAT, if this thread is so boring please troll elsewhere. I think some new debaters want to see your Bible verses.
Library cards: Stopping stupid one book at a time.
leet4A1
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6/17/2009 3:59:04 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/17/2009 1:12:16 PM, sherlockmethod wrote:
I remember a movie with Kirk Cameron (groan) in it some years ago which focused on a college debate team with a debate on abortion in the finals. I will find out the name. Oh, and DAT, if this thread is so boring please troll elsewhere. I think some new debaters want to see your Bible verses.

Thanks Sherlock, I'd say this is the film you're talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org...

I wonder if Kirk Cameron brings up the brilliant "Crocoduck" in his abortion debate.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
sherlockmethod
Posts: 317
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6/17/2009 11:06:58 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/17/2009 3:59:04 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 6/17/2009 1:12:16 PM, sherlockmethod wrote:

Thanks Sherlock, I'd say this is the film you're talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org...

I wonder if Kirk Cameron brings up the brilliant "Crocoduck" in his abortion debate.

I don't remember the crocoduck or Ray Comfort, but it is a debate film, lol. Thanks for getting the name. Kirk's team did have the prolife position against the Harvard debate team, and ... won! Sorry to give the movie away, but I don't anyone will notice.
Library cards: Stopping stupid one book at a time.
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
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6/17/2009 11:39:23 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/17/2009 11:06:58 PM, sherlockmethod wrote:
At 6/17/2009 3:59:04 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 6/17/2009 1:12:16 PM, sherlockmethod wrote:

Thanks Sherlock, I'd say this is the film you're talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org...

I wonder if Kirk Cameron brings up the brilliant "Crocoduck" in his abortion debate.

I don't remember the crocoduck or Ray Comfort, but it is a debate film, lol. Thanks for getting the name. Kirk's team did have the prolife position against the Harvard debate team, and ... won! Sorry to give the movie away, but I don't anyone will notice.

Haha, that's ok, I think I'll pass on watching it anyway. Thanks digger.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5