Total Posts:28|Showing Posts:1-28
Jump to topic:

Votes in the 000ike vs JimTimmy debate

F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 8:01:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'll evaluate which votes are legit and which are votebombs/countervotebombs. Before anyone complains, there is nothing wrong with countervotebombing and I am not trying to make it seem like there is. RoyalPaladin retracted her vote so there are 30 total votes.

Let's start off by looking at the clear and unambiguous cases of votebombing.

(I) Clear and Unambiguous cases of Votebombing
(Fully countered so did not affect the result
(21 points to 000ike)
(21 points to JimTimmy)

Votebombs that were countered
1) HCP - votebomber for JimTimmy (0-5)
2) DevonNetzley - votebombed for JimTimmy (0-3)
3) Contra - votebombed for 000ike (6-0)
4) Viper-King - Votebombed for 000ike (7-0)

CounterVotebombs
5) Extremely-Far-Right - Countered HCP (5-0)
6) Man-is-good - Countered DevonNetzley (3-0)
7) OberHerr - Countered Contra (0-6)
8) DeathbeforeDishonor - Countered Viper (0-7)

Analysis: These 8 votebombs and countervotebombs yielded a total of 21 points for either side. Two votebombs were done in favor of 000ike, and 2 in favor of JimTimmy.

(II) Votebombs/Poorly justified votes and their counters
(22 unjustified points given to JimTimmy)
(22 unjustified points/counters given to 000ike)

9) ConservativePolitico - No analysis of arguments (voted for JimTimmy 0-3) - 3 unjustified points.
10) RoyLatham - No reference to any arguments, no justification for sources vote. Shows no indication of having read the debate. (voted for JimTimmy 0-5) - 2 unjustified points.
11) Ron-Paul - Agreed with RoyLatham's vote (voted for JimTimmy 0-5) - 5 unjustified points.
12) Reasoning - Unjustified Sources vote, never addresses any arguments (Votes for JimTimmy 0-5) - 5 unjustified points.

13) Flash7221 - Only voted based on who used wikipedia (voted for 000ike 2-0)
14) Neonix - RFD mostly irrelevant to the debate (voted for 000ike 3-0)
15) Multi_Pyrocytophage - No reference to the arguments at all. Just voted based on who used wikipedia (voted for 000ike 2-0)
16) StephenHawkins - No analysis of arguments (voted for 000ike 5-0)
17) TUF - Voted only on the number of sources. No analysis of arguments. (voted for 000ike 2-0)
18) Volkov - Admitted to votebombing (voted for 000ike 5-0)
19) Imabench - Unjustified Sources vote (voted for 000ike 5-0) - 2 unjustified points

Blanket counters
20) Non_Entity - Countered unspecified voters with the conduct point (6-0 to 000ike) - Gave justification for arguments and sources.
21) LordKnuckle - Countered Multi and Flash (0-7 to JimTimmy)

(III) Real Votes:

For JimTimmy (4)
22) Baggins 2-5
23) Larztheloser 0-3
24) Double_R 0-3
25) 16kadams 0-3
26) Johnnyboy 0-3
- RoyLatham - only 3 points were justified

For 000ike (5)
27) Thrasymachus 4-3
28) Wnope 3 - 0
29) Thett3 3-0
30) F-16_Fighting_Falcon 3-0
- imabench - only 3 points were justified
- NonEntity - only 5 points were justified

Total points from real votes 000ike 23 - 23 JimTimmy

The reason I believe the voting is tied despite JimTimmy coming out ahead by 1 point from the real votes is that
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 8:10:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
So should someone else vote to reflect that information? Or are we going to keep it as is?
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 8:15:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I took me 499 characters to explain why jimtimmy was right and 000ike was wrong as to what precisely jimtimmy had to show. I addressed in the comments and on the forums arguments made by jimtimmy and 000ike and the soundness or flawed nature of them. I also explained why jimtimmy deserves the sources vote.

You may disagree with my decision, but calling my vote a "votebomb" because you disagree with me is childish.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
000ike
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 8:19:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 8:15:25 PM, Reasoning wrote:
I took me 499 characters to explain why jimtimmy was right and 000ike was wrong as to what precisely jimtimmy had to show. I addressed in the comments and on the forums arguments made by jimtimmy and 000ike and the soundness or flawed nature of them. I also explained why jimtimmy deserves the sources vote.

You may disagree with my decision, but calling my vote a "votebomb" because you disagree with me is childish.

Its easy to make outlandish nonsense appear legitimate under a civil composure. Your reasoning for voting for jimtimmy was completely erroneous, and everytime you say it, someone questions you on it just because it's so irrational.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 8:22:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 8:10:25 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
So should someone else vote to reflect that information? Or are we going to keep it as is?

The only votebomb not countered is RoyLatham's but since 000ike insists that it is legitimate, I guess that's it with the countervotebombing. I don't see any other uncountered votebombs but that is upto the debaters to argue about. I made what I felt was an objective analysis.
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 8:23:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 8:19:11 PM, 000ike wrote:
Its easy to make outlandish nonsense appear legitimate under a civil composure. Your reasoning for voting for jimtimmy was completely erroneous, and everytime you say it, someone questions you on it just because it's so irrational.

What's irrational about it? He had to show that African Americans "inherently" have lower average IQs than Whites. This was stated to mean that, controlled for environment, African Americans have lower IQs than Whites. This jimtimmy proved by citing numerous respected adoption studies. It's really quite clear who won.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 8:27:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
You know, I'm just going to say this. I had a debate where my own opponent thought I was "votebombed". I didn't make such a big deal over it:

http://www.debate.org...
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 8:28:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 8:22:17 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/19/2012 8:10:25 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
So should someone else vote to reflect that information? Or are we going to keep it as is?

The only votebomb not countered is RoyLatham's but since 000ike insists that it is legitimate, I guess that's it with the countervotebombing. I don't see any other uncountered votebombs but that is upto the debaters to argue about. I made what I felt was an objective analysis.

I was talking about the number of real votes. The debate is currently tied, however your data states is winning with the number of real votes. However I have no problem with the debate ending in a tie.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 8:31:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 8:28:01 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 2/19/2012 8:22:17 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/19/2012 8:10:25 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
So should someone else vote to reflect that information? Or are we going to keep it as is?

The only votebomb not countered is RoyLatham's but since 000ike insists that it is legitimate, I guess that's it with the countervotebombing. I don't see any other uncountered votebombs but that is upto the debaters to argue about. I made what I felt was an objective analysis.

I was talking about the number of real votes. The debate is currently tied, however your data states is winning with the number of real votes. However I have no problem with the debate ending in a tie.

Nevermind, I thought it was 22-23 in favor of jimtimmy. I misread your post
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 8:34:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 8:28:01 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 2/19/2012 8:22:17 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/19/2012 8:10:25 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
So should someone else vote to reflect that information? Or are we going to keep it as is?

The only votebomb not countered is RoyLatham's but since 000ike insists that it is legitimate, I guess that's it with the countervotebombing. I don't see any other uncountered votebombs but that is upto the debaters to argue about. I made what I felt was an objective analysis.

I was talking about the number of real votes. The debate is currently tied, however your data states is winning with the number of real votes. However I have no problem with the debate ending in a tie.

Okay, with the number of real votes, here are the number of points each side got (not counting Roy's):

1) Baggins 2-5 (Essentially 0-3)
2) Larztheloser 0-3
3) Double_R 0-3
4) 16kadams 0-3
5) Johnnyboy 0-3
That's 5 people who gave arguments to JimTimmy.

For 000ike
1) Wnope 3 - 0
2) Thett3 3 - 0
3) F-16_Fighting_Falcon 3-0
4) imabench - only 3 points were justified so 3-0
5) NonEntity - only 5 points were justified so 5-0
That's 5 people who gave arguments to 000ike with NE also justifying sources.

6) Thrasymachus 4-3 (another person giving the win to 000ike)

So, overall I believe 000ike won by 3 points so far.
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 8:37:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 8:34:22 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Okay, with the number of real votes, here are the number of points each side got (not counting Roy's):

1) Baggins 2-5 (Essentially 0-3)
2) Larztheloser 0-3
3) Double_R 0-3
4) 16kadams 0-3
5) Johnnyboy 0-3
6) Reasoning 0-5
That's 6 people who gave arguments to JimTimmy.

For 000ike
1) Wnope 3 - 0
2) Thett3 3 - 0
3) F-16_Fighting_Falcon 3-0
4) imabench - only 3 points were justified so 3-0
5) NonEntity - only 5 points were justified so 5-0
That's 5 people who gave arguments to 000ike with NE also justifying sources.

6) Thrasymachus 4-3 (another person giving the win to 000ike)

So, overall I believe jimtimmy won by 2 points so far.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 8:37:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 8:34:22 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/19/2012 8:28:01 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 2/19/2012 8:22:17 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/19/2012 8:10:25 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
So should someone else vote to reflect that information? Or are we going to keep it as is?

The only votebomb not countered is RoyLatham's but since 000ike insists that it is legitimate, I guess that's it with the countervotebombing. I don't see any other uncountered votebombs but that is upto the debaters to argue about. I made what I felt was an objective analysis.

I was talking about the number of real votes. The debate is currently tied, however your data states is winning with the number of real votes. However I have no problem with the debate ending in a tie.

Okay, with the number of real votes, here are the number of points each side got (not counting Roy's):

1) Baggins 2-5 (Essentially 0-3)
2) Larztheloser 0-3
3) Double_R 0-3
4) 16kadams 0-3
5) Johnnyboy 0-3
That's 5 people who gave arguments to JimTimmy.

For 000ike
1) Wnope 3 - 0
2) Thett3 3 - 0
3) F-16_Fighting_Falcon 3-0
4) imabench - only 3 points were justified so 3-0
5) NonEntity - only 5 points were justified so 5-0
That's 5 people who gave arguments to 000ike with NE also justifying sources.

6) Thrasymachus 4-3 (another person giving the win to 000ike)

So, overall I believe 000ike won by 3 points so far.

why not just call it a tie? Then neither will be pissed.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 8:39:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 8:37:31 PM, 16kadams wrote:
why not just call it a tie? Then neither will be pissed.

Why not call every debate a tie? Then no one would ever be pissed.

No, we aren't going to call it a tie because it wasn't a tie. Jimtimmy won fair and square.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 8:40:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 8:37:31 PM, 16kadams wrote:

why not just call it a tie? Then neither will be pissed.

I am not trying to ensure that neither will be pissed. I am trying to find out who received the most number of legitimate votes so at least for myself, I would know who won. 000ike recieved 6 real votes while JimTimmy received 5.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 8:40:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 8:39:06 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 2/19/2012 8:37:31 PM, 16kadams wrote:
why not just call it a tie? Then neither will be pissed.

Why not call every debate a tie? Then no one would ever be pissed.

No, we aren't going to call it a tie because it wasn't a tie. Jimtimmy won fair and square.

I agree but this debate is h-ll. Also the reason we do not call all debates a tie is because most debates to not stir this ruckus.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 8:48:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At this tread and pretty much everything posted in the DDO forum with regards to whining about how people voted: http://i0.kym-cdn.com...
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 8:52:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 8:48:40 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At this tread and pretty much everything posted in the DDO forum with regards to whining about how people voted: http://i0.kym-cdn.com...

What's wrong with classifying votes on a highly controversial debate into real votes, poorly justified/bad votes, and votebombs?
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 8:54:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 8:52:22 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/19/2012 8:48:40 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At this tread and pretty much everything posted in the DDO forum with regards to whining about how people voted: http://i0.kym-cdn.com...

What's wrong with classifying votes on a highly controversial debate into real votes, poorly justified/bad votes, and votebombs?

because never has so much attention been given to a debate because of "votebombing". Sometimes votes are going to be bias and others will votebomb. But if every single person reacted to this over a debate, then DDO would just be clogged with this.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 8:58:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 8:52:22 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/19/2012 8:48:40 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At this tread and pretty much everything posted in the DDO forum with regards to whining about how people voted: http://i0.kym-cdn.com...

What's wrong with classifying votes on a highly controversial debate into real votes, poorly justified/bad votes, and votebombs?

Personally, I don't understand the fuss. If you debate something controversial, people are going to let their biases out regardless. Whether it be idiot leftists who think any variation MUST be environmental or idiot racists who try to justify racism under a veil of pseudo-science, one can never expect fully informed and impartial votes. So everything about this is pretty much a waste of time and nitpicking about every single vote just seems bltchy to me. I'm not callin you out personally, but voicing annoyance at pretty much everyone involved who gives a fcck.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 9:00:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Also votebomb seems easy to hide. If one really wants to vote with their opinion, I would assume rationalization would come easy. It is after all a specialty of our species.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 9:03:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 8:54:57 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 2/19/2012 8:52:22 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/19/2012 8:48:40 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At this tread and pretty much everything posted in the DDO forum with regards to whining about how people voted: http://i0.kym-cdn.com...

What's wrong with classifying votes on a highly controversial debate into real votes, poorly justified/bad votes, and votebombs?

because never has so much attention been given to a debate because of "votebombing". Sometimes votes are going to be bias and others will votebomb. But if every single person reacted to this over a debate, then DDO would just be clogged with this.

I've been given what I consider unfair votes before, but I didn't complain. The difference here has to do with WHO is doing the VBing and how explicit it is. For months prior to us even having that debate, there were complaints of 16kadams and the rest of them VBing debates, under the tite the "Conservative Coalition"...at the same time there was a feud between Jimtimmy and a bunch of people for saying both racist and sexist comments.

This debate was intended to settle the race issue, as far as my disagreement with Jimtimmy goes. When you combine the outcry that came out of jimtimmy's offensive comments, with a hoard of individuals votebombing in his favor, this chaotic slew of threads and commotion are what will INEVITABLY result.

The dynamics of this problem are deeply rooted in a dislike of Jimtimmy's views & the undying support he received from the notorious Votebombers.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 9:06:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 9:03:06 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 2/19/2012 8:54:57 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 2/19/2012 8:52:22 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/19/2012 8:48:40 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At this tread and pretty much everything posted in the DDO forum with regards to whining about how people voted: http://i0.kym-cdn.com...

What's wrong with classifying votes on a highly controversial debate into real votes, poorly justified/bad votes, and votebombs?

because never has so much attention been given to a debate because of "votebombing". Sometimes votes are going to be bias and others will votebomb. But if every single person reacted to this over a debate, then DDO would just be clogged with this.

I've been given what I consider unfair votes before, but I didn't complain. The difference here has to do with WHO is doing the VBing and how explicit it is. For months prior to us even having that debate, there were complaints of 16kadams and the rest of them VBing debates, under the tite the "Conservative movement"...at the same time there was a feud between Jimtimmy and a bunch of people for saying both racist and sexist comments.

This debate was intended to settle the race issue, as far as my disagreement with Jimtimmy goes. When you combine the outcry that came out of jimtimmy's offensive comments, with a hoard of individuals votebombing in his favor, this chaotic slew of threads and commotion are what will INEVITABLY result.

The dynamics of this problem are deeply rooted in a dislike of Jimtimmy's views & the undying support he received from the notorious Votebombers.

you had the name wrong.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
000ike
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 9:06:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Combining 2 heated and separate feuds into one debate and expecting it to be calm, is like dropping sodium in water, and not expecting an explosion.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
000ike
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 9:16:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 9:13:52 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
If NE is a real vote, then Reasoning's certainly is not.

This.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 9:19:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 9:16:31 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 2/19/2012 9:13:52 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
If NE is a real vote, then Reasoning's certainly is not.

This.

Very funny.

But, the idea that NE had a real vote and Reasoning didn't is just absurd.

Wait. I'm just gonna stop right here.

We don't want to go into another flame war.
President of DDO
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 9:50:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 9:19:26 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
We don't want to go into another flame war.

Should have said that a month or two ago.......
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2012 9:53:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/19/2012 9:50:07 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 2/19/2012 9:19:26 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
We don't want to go into another flame war.

Should have said that a month or two ago.......

Um, we actually have already worked this out with Innomen... Please
President of DDO