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Trial is necessary

phantom
Posts: 6,774
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2/28/2012 1:20:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Not for whether he should be banned(I'm strongly against that), but for voting privileges. 16kadams should not be allowed to vote. Anyone who has 500+ votes and is constantly having them questioned should first have his voting privileges temporally taken away, then taken to trial too decide if it should be permanent. This is not based solely on how he votes but on the fact that people are constantly having problems with his votes, added with the fact that he has done so many in the last 4 months.

One thing I've recently noticed he's doing is voting tie on arguments and giving one side sources. The problem with this is he gives absolutely no reasoning on why they were tied and thus no indication he read even a fraction of the debate. All he says is arguments tied but pros sources blablabla...
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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2/28/2012 1:25:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What's wrong with giving source points?
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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2/28/2012 1:28:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 1:25:02 PM, 16kadams wrote:
What's wrong with giving source points?

Why are you strawmanning me?

You can't just keep voting tie on args in debates and give absolutely no reasoning, or the slightest indication that you read the debate. It would really piss me off if someone voted like that on my debate. Actually someone did once with conduct and that did piss me off.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
16kadams
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2/28/2012 1:29:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 1:28:00 PM, phantom wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:25:02 PM, 16kadams wrote:
What's wrong with giving source points?

Why are you strawmanning me?

You can't just keep voting tie on args in debates and give absolutely no reasoning, or the slightest indication that you read the debate. It would really piss me off if someone voted like that on my debate. Actually someone did once with conduct and that did piss me off.

Um voting gives me an obligation to read the debate. Lol. Also if arguments in my eyes are tied am I not obligated to keep them tied?
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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2/28/2012 1:36:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 1:29:39 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:28:00 PM, phantom wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:25:02 PM, 16kadams wrote:
What's wrong with giving source points?

Why are you strawmanning me?

You can't just keep voting tie on args in debates and give absolutely no reasoning, or the slightest indication that you read the debate. It would really piss me off if someone voted like that on my debate. Actually someone did once with conduct and that did piss me off.

Um voting gives me an obligation to read the debate. Lol. Also if arguments in my eyes are tied am I not obligated to keep them tied?

If you believe they are tied....you should not vote at all. You do have an obligation to read the debate if you keep it tied...but, you also have to provide some reasoning as to why you provided sources. Just because someone has more credible sources does not mean they should get the source vote. If its like 300 sources to 1 fine. But, if its like 10 to 7 don't vote sources. If something needs to be sourced but is not that is where source voting really comes in.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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2/28/2012 1:42:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 1:29:39 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:28:00 PM, phantom wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:25:02 PM, 16kadams wrote:
What's wrong with giving source points?

Why are you strawmanning me?

You can't just keep voting tie on args in debates and give absolutely no reasoning, or the slightest indication that you read the debate. It would really piss me off if someone voted like that on my debate. Actually someone did once with conduct and that did piss me off.

Um voting gives me an obligation to read the debate. Lol. Also if arguments in my eyes are tied am I not obligated to keep them tied?

Um what? If arguments are tied than why are they tied? Surely it wouldn't be too hard to explain. Arguments are the main part of the debate thus every decision should always be explained, (with some exceptions such as forfeits). How does anyone know you read the debate and didn't just look at sources? (which is exactly what it looks like)
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
16kadams
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2/28/2012 1:42:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 1:36:23 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:29:39 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:28:00 PM, phantom wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:25:02 PM, 16kadams wrote:
What's wrong with giving source points?

Why are you strawmanning me?

You can't just keep voting tie on args in debates and give absolutely no reasoning, or the slightest indication that you read the debate. It would really piss me off if someone voted like that on my debate. Actually someone did once with conduct and that did piss me off.

Um voting gives me an obligation to read the debate. Lol. Also if arguments in my eyes are tied am I not obligated to keep them tied?


If you believe they are tied....you should not vote at all. You do have an obligation to read the debate if you keep it tied...but, you also have to provide some reasoning as to why you provided sources. Just because someone has more credible sources does not mean they should get the source vote. If its like 300 sources to 1 fine. But, if its like 10 to 7 don't vote sources. If something needs to be sourced but is not that is where source voting really comes in.

I do! I say they have more sources and more accurate ones!
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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2/28/2012 1:43:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 1:42:36 PM, phantom wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:29:39 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:28:00 PM, phantom wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:25:02 PM, 16kadams wrote:
What's wrong with giving source points?

Why are you strawmanning me?

You can't just keep voting tie on args in debates and give absolutely no reasoning, or the slightest indication that you read the debate. It would really piss me off if someone voted like that on my debate. Actually someone did once with conduct and that did piss me off.

Um voting gives me an obligation to read the debate. Lol. Also if arguments in my eyes are tied am I not obligated to keep them tied?

Um what? If arguments are tied than why are they tied? Surely it wouldn't be too hard to explain. Arguments are the main part of the debate thus every decision should always be explained, (with some exceptions such as forfeits). How does anyone know you read the debate and didn't just look at sources? (which is exactly what it looks like)

Fine I'll explain if you have such an urge and your so pissed XD
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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2/28/2012 1:48:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 1:42:40 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:36:23 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:29:39 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:28:00 PM, phantom wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:25:02 PM, 16kadams wrote:
What's wrong with giving source points?

Why are you strawmanning me?

You can't just keep voting tie on args in debates and give absolutely no reasoning, or the slightest indication that you read the debate. It would really piss me off if someone voted like that on my debate. Actually someone did once with conduct and that did piss me off.

Um voting gives me an obligation to read the debate. Lol. Also if arguments in my eyes are tied am I not obligated to keep them tied?


If you believe they are tied....you should not vote at all. You do have an obligation to read the debate if you keep it tied...but, you also have to provide some reasoning as to why you provided sources. Just because someone has more credible sources does not mean they should get the source vote. If its like 300 sources to 1 fine. But, if its like 10 to 7 don't vote sources. If something needs to be sourced but is not that is where source voting really comes in.

I do! I say they have more sources and more accurate ones!

I will reiterate if one person has 10 accurate sources which are placed where they are needed and the other has 7 accurate sources placed where needed. Don't vote sources. Just by them having more sources does not mean the sources are actually needed in the context of the debate. I mean the sources could be backing up some trivial detail which was not needed. Context matters.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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2/28/2012 1:49:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This isn't even the point of this thread. Point is, someone with 500+ votes who's RFD's are constantly being questioned, deserves some kind of inquirey.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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2/28/2012 1:57:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 1:49:33 PM, phantom wrote:
This isn't even the point of this thread. Point is, someone with 500+ votes who's RFD's are constantly being questioned, deserves some kind of inquirey.

Why?
16kadams
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2/28/2012 2:00:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 1:57:45 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:49:33 PM, phantom wrote:
This isn't even the point of this thread. Point is, someone with 500+ votes who's RFD's are constantly being questioned, deserves some kind of inquirey.

Why?

Other people vote worse! Why do I get questioned and not them!

But sure take away voting rights temporarily if needed.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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2/28/2012 2:09:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 2:00:30 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:57:45 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:49:33 PM, phantom wrote:
This isn't even the point of this thread. Point is, someone with 500+ votes who's RFD's are constantly being questioned, deserves some kind of inquirey.

Why?

Other people vote worse! Why do I get questioned and not them!

You get questioned because people believe your votes may be questionable. Other votes are definitely questionable.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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2/28/2012 2:13:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The most annoying part of this ordeal is that he doesn't have the basic common sense to cease and desist in light of ALL this complaint...Instead he continues doing it and in the most hair-brained and blatantly overt fashion. Not that I'm particularly angry about this, but he gave me 2 source points on a debate that had NOTHING to do with sources but logical deduction.

Either he knows what he's doing, and deliberately does it anyway, or he's too oblivious to control himself. In both cases, he deserves to have his ability to vote revoked.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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2/28/2012 2:15:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 2:00:30 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:57:45 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:49:33 PM, phantom wrote:
This isn't even the point of this thread. Point is, someone with 500+ votes who's RFD's are constantly being questioned, deserves some kind of inquirey.

Why?

Other people vote worse! Why do I get questioned and not them!

I've already explained. Sure some peoples vote worse than you, but those people usually have less than 40 votes, and are often blatant Vbombs and thus get countered. You on the other hand have more than 500.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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2/28/2012 2:16:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 2:00:30 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:57:45 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:49:33 PM, phantom wrote:
This isn't even the point of this thread. Point is, someone with 500+ votes who's RFD's are constantly being questioned, deserves some kind of inquirey.

Why?

Other people vote worse! Why do I get questioned and not them!

Those people are usually banned.
But sure take away voting rights temporarily if needed.
imabench
Posts: 21,219
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2/28/2012 2:24:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
you should have seen my debate on DNA, he voted 2 points to the Pro after not reading the debate, then when he came back and saw I was winning he awarded 4 more points to the Pro and ranted about how I dont deserve to win that debate. Only reason he didnt give all 7 to the Pro (which im sure he wanted to) was because it would look like a blatant votebomb to add to the dozens of other ones hes had...
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
imabench
Posts: 21,219
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2/28/2012 4:38:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
"Posted by 16kadams 17 hours ago
Ok I only did conduct before as I saw the BS and only read part of it"

http://www.debate.org...
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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2/28/2012 4:46:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
So we have a poor debater with questionable motives for his inauguration into office....campaigning to be vice president.......

A remarkable thing I must confess, truly remarkable.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Man-is-good
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2/28/2012 4:51:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 4:46:50 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
So we have a debater with questionable motives for his inauguration into office....and use of voting privileges campaigning to be vice president.......

A remarkable thing I must confess, truly remarkable.

Fixed. I did not intend to that 16kadam was a "poor" debater but that his voters, as well as intentions and even policies, are sketchy at best.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Korashk
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2/28/2012 6:24:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 1:48:41 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
I will reiterate if one person has 10 accurate sources which are placed where they are needed and the other has 7 accurate sources placed where needed. Don't vote sources.

More people need to abide by this principle.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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2/28/2012 6:26:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 6:24:12 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:48:41 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
I will reiterate if one person has 10 accurate sources which are placed where they are needed and the other has 7 accurate sources placed where needed. Don't vote sources.

More people need to abide by this principle.

16k is virtually the only one who does that
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
16kadams
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2/28/2012 6:28:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 2:15:06 PM, phantom wrote:
At 2/28/2012 2:00:30 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:57:45 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:49:33 PM, phantom wrote:
This isn't even the point of this thread. Point is, someone with 500+ votes who's RFD's are constantly being questioned, deserves some kind of inquirey.

Why?

Other people vote worse! Why do I get questioned and not them!

I've already explained. Sure some peoples vote worse than you, but those people usually have less than 40 votes, and are often blatant Vbombs and thus get countered. You on the other hand have more than 500.

There are others that I will not name.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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2/28/2012 6:31:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 6:28:35 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/28/2012 2:15:06 PM, phantom wrote:
At 2/28/2012 2:00:30 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:57:45 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:49:33 PM, phantom wrote:
This isn't even the point of this thread. Point is, someone with 500+ votes who's RFD's are constantly being questioned, deserves some kind of inquirey.

Why?

Other people vote worse! Why do I get questioned and not them!

I've already explained. Sure some peoples vote worse than you, but those people usually have less than 40 votes, and are often blatant Vbombs and thus get countered. You on the other hand have more than 500.

There are others that I will not name.

In a thread where you're being accused, not providing examples could sometimes prove fruitless and detrimental to your own cause...

In other words, please do tell us.:)
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
16kadams
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2/28/2012 6:36:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 6:31:45 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 2/28/2012 6:28:35 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/28/2012 2:15:06 PM, phantom wrote:
At 2/28/2012 2:00:30 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:57:45 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:49:33 PM, phantom wrote:
This isn't even the point of this thread. Point is, someone with 500+ votes who's RFD's are constantly being questioned, deserves some kind of inquirey.

Why?

Other people vote worse! Why do I get questioned and not them!

I've already explained. Sure some peoples vote worse than you, but those people usually have less than 40 votes, and are often blatant Vbombs and thus get countered. You on the other hand have more than 500.

There are others that I will not name.

In a thread where you're being accused, not providing examples could sometimes prove fruitless and detrimental to your own cause...

In other words, please do tell us.:)

PM me they'll get mad :(
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
imabench
Posts: 21,219
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2/28/2012 6:43:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 6:36:59 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/28/2012 6:31:45 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 2/28/2012 6:28:35 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/28/2012 2:15:06 PM, phantom wrote:
At 2/28/2012 2:00:30 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:57:45 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:49:33 PM, phantom wrote:
This isn't even the point of this thread. Point is, someone with 500+ votes who's RFD's are constantly being questioned, deserves some kind of inquirey.

Why?

Other people vote worse! Why do I get questioned and not them!

I've already explained. Sure some peoples vote worse than you, but those people usually have less than 40 votes, and are often blatant Vbombs and thus get countered. You on the other hand have more than 500.

There are others that I will not name.

In a thread where you're being accused, not providing examples could sometimes prove fruitless and detrimental to your own cause...

In other words, please do tell us.:)

PM me they'll get mad :(

then put it on here after he tells ya
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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2/28/2012 6:56:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 6:43:05 PM, imabench wrote:
At 2/28/2012 6:36:59 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/28/2012 6:31:45 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 2/28/2012 6:28:35 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/28/2012 2:15:06 PM, phantom wrote:
At 2/28/2012 2:00:30 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:57:45 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:49:33 PM, phantom wrote:
This isn't even the point of this thread. Point is, someone with 500+ votes who's RFD's are constantly being questioned, deserves some kind of inquirey.

Why?

Other people vote worse! Why do I get questioned and not them!

I've already explained. Sure some peoples vote worse than you, but those people usually have less than 40 votes, and are often blatant Vbombs and thus get countered. You on the other hand have more than 500.

There are others that I will not name.

In a thread where you're being accused, not providing examples could sometimes prove fruitless and detrimental to your own cause...

In other words, please do tell us.:)

PM me they'll get mad :(

then put it on here after he tells ya

That would be rude
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
imabench
Posts: 21,219
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2/28/2012 7:01:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Just another day in the life of DDO where a certain team campaigning for president make really drastic claims and then refuse to name names...
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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2/28/2012 7:03:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 7:01:20 PM, imabench wrote:
Just another day in the life of DDO where a certain team campaigning for president make really drastic claims and then refuse to name names...

The question is, why make the drastic claim when you refuse to support it?
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau