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5 round debates should be eliminated

Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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3/14/2012 1:27:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm not sure if this is something new or if I just never noticed it before, but it seems that there are a lot of 5 round debates in the challenge and debating periods and has been the case for some time now.

I think there is pretty overwhelming consent among experienced debaters that 5 round debates deter people from wanting to participate in or read them. However less experienced debaters have yet to figure this out and as a result choose 5 round debates frequently. My guess is that they do this because less experienced debaters are more used to forum style bickering filled with frequent back and fourths as opposed to thoughtful argumentation. However thoughtful argumentation in a 5 round debate will usually lead to a debate that is too long to enjoyably read, or a debate which has nothing meaningful left to say at the end.

Debates rarely if ever benefit from a fifth round and I think removing the option for one would benefit the sight. What do you think?
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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3/14/2012 2:41:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
...because you don't like them, you want them to be removed for everyone?

no thanks. Personally I enjoy 5 round debates, mostly because they allow a "forfeit" and the debate to go naturally, and allows extra time.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

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Zaradi
Posts: 14,124
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3/14/2012 4:13:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/14/2012 2:41:59 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
...because you don't like them, you want them to be removed for everyone?

no thanks. Personally I enjoy 5 round debates, mostly because they allow a "forfeit" and the debate to go naturally, and allows extra time.

^ This.

Personally, I think that 5 round debates allow for people to go deeper into topics and discussion without the fear of your opponent not understanding what you're talking about and you don't have enough time to clarify. I can't tell you how many debates I've been in on here already where, after I post my case, my opponent's rebuttals don't even respond to what it's saying, and it's fairly obvious they don't understand what I'm saying. Having more rounds gives you plenty of time to be able to clarify on what you're saying and make it plain and easy for the voters to see who won and who lost the debate.

Sure, there are some downsides such as lack of interest after a while if it's a really long and boring debate, but the ability to go deeper into debates and go more in-depth with topics that would only get the surface scratched is a very powerful benefit for this site, and removing the fifth round would only eliminate this benefit.

Besides, rarely does someone ever use all five rounds for debating. Often whenever a five round debate is posted, the first round will almost always be for acceptance, which would technically lower it down to a four round debate. If you don't like super long debates, just have the first round as acceptance and you're good to go.
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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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3/14/2012 5:22:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/14/2012 4:13:14 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 3/14/2012 2:41:59 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
...because you don't like them, you want them to be removed for everyone?

no thanks. Personally I enjoy 5 round debates, mostly because they allow a "forfeit" and the debate to go naturally, and allows extra time.

^ This.

Personally, I think that 5 round debates allow for people to go deeper into topics and discussion without the fear of your opponent not understanding what you're talking about and you don't have enough time to clarify. I can't tell you how many debates I've been in on here already where, after I post my case, my opponent's rebuttals don't even respond to what it's saying, and it's fairly obvious they don't understand what I'm saying. Having more rounds gives you plenty of time to be able to clarify on what you're saying and make it plain and easy for the voters to see who won and who lost the debate.

Sure, there are some downsides such as lack of interest after a while if it's a really long and boring debate, but the ability to go deeper into debates and go more in-depth with topics that would only get the surface scratched is a very powerful benefit for this site, and removing the fifth round would only eliminate this benefit.

Besides, rarely does someone ever use all five rounds for debating. Often whenever a five round debate is posted, the first round will almost always be for acceptance, which would technically lower it down to a four round debate. If you don't like super long debates, just have the first round as acceptance and you're good to go.

The same argument could be made for a 6th round or a 7th round. People have their preferences, and that's understood,..but lowering the round limit has an overall benefit for the site. It compels people to make their case's concise and to the point, and encourages voting. I haven't voted on a 5 round debate in about 7 months.

If your opponent didn't understand your argument, then voters will pick up on it and vote accordingly.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
1dustpelt
Posts: 1,970
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3/14/2012 8:24:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/14/2012 1:27:04 AM, Double_R wrote:
I'm not sure if this is something new or if I just never noticed it before, but it seems that there are a lot of 5 round debates in the challenge and debating periods and has been the case for some time now.

I think there is pretty overwhelming consent among experienced debaters that 5 round debates deter people from wanting to participate in or read them. However less experienced debaters have yet to figure this out and as a result choose 5 round debates frequently. My guess is that they do this because less experienced debaters are more used to forum style bickering filled with frequent back and fourths as opposed to thoughtful argumentation. However thoughtful argumentation in a 5 round debate will usually lead to a debate that is too long to enjoyably read, or a debate which has nothing meaningful left to say at the end.

Debates rarely if ever benefit from a fifth round and I think removing the option for one would benefit the sight. What do you think?

No way, I love 5 round debates.
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Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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3/14/2012 9:42:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/14/2012 5:22:41 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/14/2012 4:13:14 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 3/14/2012 2:41:59 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
...because you don't like them, you want them to be removed for everyone?

no thanks. Personally I enjoy 5 round debates, mostly because they allow a "forfeit" and the debate to go naturally, and allows extra time.

^ This.

Personally, I think that 5 round debates allow for people to go deeper into topics and discussion without the fear of your opponent not understanding what you're talking about and you don't have enough time to clarify. I can't tell you how many debates I've been in on here already where, after I post my case, my opponent's rebuttals don't even respond to what it's saying, and it's fairly obvious they don't understand what I'm saying. Having more rounds gives you plenty of time to be able to clarify on what you're saying and make it plain and easy for the voters to see who won and who lost the debate.

Sure, there are some downsides such as lack of interest after a while if it's a really long and boring debate, but the ability to go deeper into debates and go more in-depth with topics that would only get the surface scratched is a very powerful benefit for this site, and removing the fifth round would only eliminate this benefit.

Besides, rarely does someone ever use all five rounds for debating. Often whenever a five round debate is posted, the first round will almost always be for acceptance, which would technically lower it down to a four round debate. If you don't like super long debates, just have the first round as acceptance and you're good to go.

The same argument could be made for a 6th round or a 7th round. People have their preferences, and that's understood,..but lowering the round limit has an overall benefit for the site. It compels people to make their case's concise and to the point, and encourages voting. I haven't voted on a 5 round debate in about 7 months.

If your opponent didn't understand your argument, then voters will pick up on it and vote accordingly.

Which is your opinion on the issue. 5 round debates that are successful usually are in depth and have long voting periods, or occasionally smaller character limits.

And yes, the argument is the same for the longer rounds, except the argument also works for removing 2 round debates from the list. As the number of rounds increases, the superficial nature of the number of rounds increases also.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
lannan13
Posts: 23,017
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3/14/2012 10:24:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
5 round debates are the bomb and I don't know weither you do real debate or not, but they have 5 rounds or so. Also if you look at my debates a majority of them are 5 round debates.
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1dustpelt
Posts: 1,970
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3/14/2012 11:26:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
This 5 round debate was awesome:
http://www.debate.org...
Wall of LOL
"Infanticide is justified as long as the infants are below two" ~ RoyalPaladin
"Promoting female superiority is the only way to establish equality." ~ RoyalPaladin
"Jury trials should be banned. They're nothing more than opportunities for racists to destroy lives." ~ RoyalPaladin after the Zimmerman Trial.
Zaradi
Posts: 14,124
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3/14/2012 11:35:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/14/2012 5:22:41 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/14/2012 4:13:14 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 3/14/2012 2:41:59 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
...because you don't like them, you want them to be removed for everyone?

no thanks. Personally I enjoy 5 round debates, mostly because they allow a "forfeit" and the debate to go naturally, and allows extra time.

^ This.

Personally, I think that 5 round debates allow for people to go deeper into topics and discussion without the fear of your opponent not understanding what you're talking about and you don't have enough time to clarify. I can't tell you how many debates I've been in on here already where, after I post my case, my opponent's rebuttals don't even respond to what it's saying, and it's fairly obvious they don't understand what I'm saying. Having more rounds gives you plenty of time to be able to clarify on what you're saying and make it plain and easy for the voters to see who won and who lost the debate.

Sure, there are some downsides such as lack of interest after a while if it's a really long and boring debate, but the ability to go deeper into debates and go more in-depth with topics that would only get the surface scratched is a very powerful benefit for this site, and removing the fifth round would only eliminate this benefit.

Besides, rarely does someone ever use all five rounds for debating. Often whenever a five round debate is posted, the first round will almost always be for acceptance, which would technically lower it down to a four round debate. If you don't like super long debates, just have the first round as acceptance and you're good to go.

The same argument could be made for a 6th round or a 7th round. People have their preferences, and that's understood,..but lowering the round limit has an overall benefit for the site. It compels people to make their case's concise and to the point, and encourages voting. I haven't voted on a 5 round debate in about 7 months.

Long voting periods generally fix back for this, so both would still be equally encouraging voting.

If your opponent didn't understand your argument, then voters will pick up on it and vote accordingly.

If your opponent doesn't understand your argument, there is a good chance that the people voting also don't. More often than not, the two see in exactly the same way. Sure, there's a chance that they may not and then it's an easy vote, but more often than not they're confused as to what's going on when the opponent is confused, and that makes voting really suck.

For example, although I was confused on to how this debate got confusing because it was highly superficial in nature, your vote on my debate with Espn fan wasn't even close to what actually happened in the round. Especially your long winded comment that took something I said and applied it to something I didn't say it against. While it didn't change the outcome of it, it gave my opponent early points that had him in the lead.
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thett3
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3/14/2012 11:36:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Double_R, I want to one day have a debate where my opponent and I exchange pictures of cute kittens.

Do you honestly expect something like that to get done in only 4 rounds?
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Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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3/14/2012 11:36:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/14/2012 11:35:02 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 3/14/2012 5:22:41 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/14/2012 4:13:14 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 3/14/2012 2:41:59 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
...because you don't like them, you want them to be removed for everyone?

no thanks. Personally I enjoy 5 round debates, mostly because they allow a "forfeit" and the debate to go naturally, and allows extra time.

^ This.

Personally, I think that 5 round debates allow for people to go deeper into topics and discussion without the fear of your opponent not understanding what you're talking about and you don't have enough time to clarify. I can't tell you how many debates I've been in on here already where, after I post my case, my opponent's rebuttals don't even respond to what it's saying, and it's fairly obvious they don't understand what I'm saying. Having more rounds gives you plenty of time to be able to clarify on what you're saying and make it plain and easy for the voters to see who won and who lost the debate.

Sure, there are some downsides such as lack of interest after a while if it's a really long and boring debate, but the ability to go deeper into debates and go more in-depth with topics that would only get the surface scratched is a very powerful benefit for this site, and removing the fifth round would only eliminate this benefit.

Besides, rarely does someone ever use all five rounds for debating. Often whenever a five round debate is posted, the first round will almost always be for acceptance, which would technically lower it down to a four round debate. If you don't like super long debates, just have the first round as acceptance and you're good to go.

The same argument could be made for a 6th round or a 7th round. People have their preferences, and that's understood,..but lowering the round limit has an overall benefit for the site. It compels people to make their case's concise and to the point, and encourages voting. I haven't voted on a 5 round debate in about 7 months.

Long voting periods generally fix back for this, so both would still be equally encouraging voting.

If your opponent didn't understand your argument, then voters will pick up on it and vote accordingly.

If your opponent doesn't understand your argument, there is a good chance that the people voting also don't. More often than not, the two see in exactly the same way. Sure, there's a chance that they may not and then it's an easy vote, but more often than not they're confused as to what's going on when the opponent is confused, and that makes voting really suck.

For example, although I was confused on to how this debate got confusing because it was highly superficial in nature, your vote on my debate with Espn fan wasn't even close to what actually happened in the round. Especially your long winded comment that took something I said and applied it to something I didn't say it against. While it didn't change the outcome of it, it gave my opponent early points that had him in the lead.

^this
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...