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Site Constitutional Change

Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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5/24/2012 3:08:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Are we going to allow the president to change this at will? That is, would it be better to cement the presidential powers?
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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5/24/2012 3:19:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/24/2012 3:08:35 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
Are we going to allow the president to change this at will? That is, would it be better to cement the presidential powers?

Is this in response to something particular?? I'm an advocate for the members choosing powers, as opposed to the president picking what he/she can do. For instance, I support a 2 term limit on the presidency, but I would not try to enact that without approval of the members. IOW, no executive orders.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/24/2012 3:33:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
When can we stop pretending the President matters? These "campaigns" are frivolous and detracting from other more important things, or at least more interesting things :)

Any member on this site is free to contact Juggle admins at any time. They may or may not respond accordingly. Similarly, the current President, innomen, has noted that Juggle is not always prompt or helpful in their replies to him either.

The only time the President became important IMO is when mod powers were bestowed upon him. However someone told me that innomen will retain mod powers rather than have them being passed on to the new prez (whew!). As such, once again the President is a meaningless figurehead with no authority, no special privileges and is therefore no big deal and in fact unnecessary. If the new President has mod powers, I'd care about who wins the election. If not... moving right along.
President of DDO
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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5/24/2012 3:53:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/24/2012 3:34:29 PM, innomen wrote:
What vast powers do you believe the president to have?

Seeing as the president is the sole authority (I don't think Juggle has any authority, simply power and what comes with it), the position has a lot of influence over insite events. I'm Responding to repeated promises of:

changing the electoral system
changing the electoral requirements
changing the role of the president regarding powers
changing the whole of the judicial system

etc. etc.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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5/24/2012 3:57:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The only real power on this site outside of Juggle is Mod Power. Unless Mod Power and the Presidency become linked then the president really is just a figurehead.

We've been deceived because innomen happens to be both president and mod so we have come to think the two are linked when they aren't.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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5/24/2012 4:02:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/24/2012 3:57:04 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
The only real power on this site outside of Juggle is Mod Power. Unless Mod Power and the Presidency become linked then the president really is just a figurehead.

We've been deceived because innomen happens to be both president and mod so we have come to think the two are linked when they aren't.

Except the presidents are most likely to have mod powers, to be honest.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Chrysippus
Posts: 2,173
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5/24/2012 4:09:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/24/2012 4:02:58 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 5/24/2012 3:57:04 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
The only real power on this site outside of Juggle is Mod Power. Unless Mod Power and the Presidency become linked then the president really is just a figurehead.

We've been deceived because innomen happens to be both president and mod so we have come to think the two are linked when they aren't.

Except the presidents are most likely to have mod powers, to be honest.

Except, they aren't.
Cavete mea inexorabilis legiones mimus!
Chrysippus
Posts: 2,173
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5/24/2012 4:11:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/24/2012 4:09:51 PM, Chrysippus wrote:
At 5/24/2012 4:02:58 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
Except the presidents are most likely to have mod powers, to be honest.

Except, they aren't.

First post, page 2.
http://www.debate.org...
Cavete mea inexorabilis legiones mimus!
Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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5/24/2012 4:13:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/24/2012 3:08:35 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
Are we going to allow the president to change this at will? That is, would it be better to cement the presidential powers?

Interesting.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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5/24/2012 6:27:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/24/2012 4:44:12 PM, Wnope wrote:
What constitution?

A constitution does not have to be codified or entrenched. Then again, it's a collection of documents if it isn't a single one, so we have a problem or two. But the topic of "constitutional" is usually clearish.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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5/24/2012 6:43:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
There's no point in a "Constitution" if it has no ability to check the powers of those it attempts to regulate. There is no point in having a constitution if the President may change it unilaterly. That just puts you back to pre-magna carta England.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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5/24/2012 10:42:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/24/2012 3:33:41 PM, Danielle wrote:
When can we stop pretending the President matters? These "campaigns" are frivolous and detracting from other more important things, or at least more interesting things :)

Any member on this site is free to contact Juggle admins at any time. They may or may not respond accordingly. Similarly, the current President, innomen, has noted that Juggle is not always prompt or helpful in their replies to him either.

The only time the President became important IMO is when mod powers were bestowed upon him. However someone told me that innomen will retain mod powers rather than have them being passed on to the new prez (whew!). As such, once again the President is a meaningless figurehead with no authority, no special privileges and is therefore no big deal and in fact unnecessary. If the new President has mod powers, I'd care about who wins the election. If not... moving right along.

I think of the president as basically the spokesman and representative of the members. Sure, anyone can contact Juggle at any time, but I think they give requests more credibility when they know that we're organized enough to select one person to represent us, and prioritize our requests.

We've never had to deal with the mod and the president being two different people, and I do see some potential for disagreements, with that situation. That's why I'd favor having two mods, one of them being the elected president. I'm not sure how Juggle would respond to that request though, and it's entirely up to them.

It seems like we have two options...

1. Choose our own representative and hope to convince Juggle that we are capable of choosing responsible leaders, including the mod. If this were to happen then whoever is elected president will get mod powers, with Juggle's approval.

2. Keep whoever is the mod, as president, until such a time as he/she decides to give up the post. This essentially let's Juggle pick our representative, and does away with the need for an elected president.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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5/25/2012 2:59:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/24/2012 10:42:13 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/24/2012 3:33:41 PM, Danielle wrote:
When can we stop pretending the President matters? These "campaigns" are frivolous and detracting from other more important things, or at least more interesting things :)

Any member on this site is free to contact Juggle admins at any time. They may or may not respond accordingly. Similarly, the current President, innomen, has noted that Juggle is not always prompt or helpful in their replies to him either.

The only time the President became important IMO is when mod powers were bestowed upon him. However someone told me that innomen will retain mod powers rather than have them being passed on to the new prez (whew!). As such, once again the President is a meaningless figurehead with no authority, no special privileges and is therefore no big deal and in fact unnecessary. If the new President has mod powers, I'd care about who wins the election. If not... moving right along.

I think of the president as basically the spokesman and representative of the members. Sure, anyone can contact Juggle at any time, but I think they give requests more credibility when they know that we're organized enough to select one person to represent us, and prioritize our requests.

We've never had to deal with the mod and the president being two different people, and I do see some potential for disagreements, with that situation. That's why I'd favor having two mods, one of them being the elected president. I'm not sure how Juggle would respond to that request though, and it's entirely up to them.

It seems like we have two options...

1. Choose our own representative and hope to convince Juggle that we are capable of choosing responsible leaders, including the mod. If this were to happen then whoever is elected president will get mod powers, with Juggle's approval.

2. Keep whoever is the mod, as president, until such a time as he/she decides to give up the post. This essentially let's Juggle pick our representative, and does away with the need for an elected president.

I believe that Juggle would be uncomfortable in having a mod change out every 6 months. The access to the admin site isn't something they would have as a revolving door.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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5/25/2012 9:23:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/24/2012 3:35:32 PM, innomen wrote:
Yeah, what Danielle said.:

Seconded.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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5/25/2012 9:26:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
You can tell alot about a person with how seriously they take these elections. The one's who take it the most seriously I tend to view as being power-hungry and vain. Those are precisely the kinds of people I don't want running the day to day affairs of the forum, as those people tend to be manipulative and vengeful.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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5/25/2012 11:46:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/25/2012 11:45:42 PM, stubs wrote:
Casey Anthony for president!
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
YYW
Posts: 36,237
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5/25/2012 11:56:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/25/2012 9:26:38 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
You can tell alot about a person with how seriously they take these elections. The one's who take it the most seriously I tend to view as being power-hungry and vain. Those are precisely the kinds of people I don't want running the day to day affairs of the forum, as those people tend to be manipulative and vengeful.

Why is it, honestly, that we even need a president? Or a constitution? Or anything? Perhaps it's the inner anarchist in me... but really? What's the value of these things on DDO?