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Upcoming Launch of "Quick Debates"

JuliaD
Posts: 79
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6/22/2012 3:03:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Thanks for the feedback regarding the latest release. We are working hard to implement changes to continue to improve the community.

While we plan to tackle team debates in the future, we will be rolling out the quick debates first to provide the community with a new debate format in the interim.

Problem: The standard debates on DDO enable only two members of the community to participate, and we'd like to offer a solution that enables multiple members to engage.

Quick Debates are similar to debates.juggle.com in which hundreds of debates covering a variety of topics are covered. There are several advantages to adding this particular component to the DDO community.

1. Quick Debates enable more than two members of the community to participate in the debate. Anyone in the community can pick a side and offer up arguments in support of it.

2. Quick Debates will stand alone from the standard debates on DDO – with everything from scoring and points tracked separately.

3. Much like the standard debates on DDO, the Quick Debates will have 3 periods with specific rules governing each.

Period 1 – Argument Period. In this round, you will choose a side and offer up an argument to support your stance. To encourage original thought, other members of the DDO community will not be able to view your argument until this period has closed. Current stats regarding the number of arguments on each side will be visible.

Period 2 – Review/Open Comments. In this period, community members can view all arguments posted in first period (no additional arguments can be posted). Users can offer up rebuttals for each argument and/or point out holes in the argument.

Period 3 - Voting. The goal is to reward the user with the best, most sound argument. To combat "vote bombing", voters will provide 2 votes (1 on each side based on the best argument and not necessarily their specific stance). A community member from each side will receive an award for having the soundest argument – the best debater.

4. We also hope to integrate quick debates with Facebook, Twitter and other social media channels in which winners are announced, badges awarded and more (and you can brag to your friends).

In the near future we will be presenting screen shots of the Quick Debates design. As always, we welcome and encourage your feedback. We are definitely open to suggestions on how this functionality will work in the DDO community. Please keep suggestions constructive and remain open minded.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/22/2012 3:10:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Sounds fantastic. I see something like this overtaking a lot of the bickering in the forums for a more organized system of argument.

How soon will we be able to see this in effect?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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6/22/2012 3:16:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It's like a mix of forum arguing and current debates. Pretty cool.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
UnStupendousMan
Posts: 3,475
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6/22/2012 3:19:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Fantastique. This is going to be either a thing to hammer out forum fights or a medium between 40,000 character regular debates and the very quick and brief nature of the forums. Although there are things that could be better, anything that will increase the quality of the site are welcomed.
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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6/22/2012 4:05:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
LOVE the update. I like the idea of quick debates and like the new standard for argument period.
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Lordknukle
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6/22/2012 4:05:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
http://images.sodahead.com...
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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6/22/2012 4:07:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This looks to be amazing, though one question on it. As we know, it is difficult to get people to read debates that only have 8 arguments (4 for each side). If this is "too popular" than it risks having dozens of arguments for each side. How do we get people to read them all to vote accurately? And what would determine which arguments are presented first (I'd bet that most people will only read the first few and only vote amoung those, rather than reading all).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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6/22/2012 4:10:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/22/2012 3:12:18 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Haha, this is actually a fantastic way to resolve forum fights :)
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
daytonanerd
Posts: 6,769
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6/22/2012 4:34:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/22/2012 3:03:02 PM, JuliaD wrote:
Thanks for the feedback regarding the latest release. We are working hard to implement changes to continue to improve the community.

While we plan to tackle team debates in the future, we will be rolling out the quick debates first to provide the community with a new debate format in the interim.

Problem: The standard debates on DDO enable only two members of the community to participate, and we'd like to offer a solution that enables multiple members to engage.

Quick Debates are similar to debates.juggle.com in which hundreds of debates covering a variety of topics are covered. There are several advantages to adding this particular component to the DDO community.

1. Quick Debates enable more than two members of the community to participate in the debate. Anyone in the community can pick a side and offer up arguments in support of it.

2. Quick Debates will stand alone from the standard debates on DDO – with everything from scoring and points tracked separately.

3. Much like the standard debates on DDO, the Quick Debates will have 3 periods with specific rules governing each.

Period 1 – Argument Period. In this round, you will choose a side and offer up an argument to support your stance. To encourage original thought, other members of the DDO community will not be able to view your argument until this period has closed. Current stats regarding the number of arguments on each side will be visible.

Period 2 – Review/Open Comments. In this period, community members can view all arguments posted in first period (no additional arguments can be posted). Users can offer up rebuttals for each argument and/or point out holes in the argument.

Period 3 - Voting. The goal is to reward the user with the best, most sound argument. To combat "vote bombing", voters will provide 2 votes (1 on each side based on the best argument and not necessarily their specific stance). A community member from each side will receive an award for having the soundest argument – the best debater.

4. We also hope to integrate quick debates with Facebook, Twitter and other social media channels in which winners are announced, badges awarded and more (and you can brag to your friends).

In the near future we will be presenting screen shots of the Quick Debates design. As always, we welcome and encourage your feedback. We are definitely open to suggestions on how this functionality will work in the DDO community. Please keep suggestions constructive and remain open minded.

This is awesome Juggle! Did Airmax help with this?
#FeeltheFreezerBern
WriterDave
Posts: 934
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6/22/2012 5:28:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Sounds good to me.
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Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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6/22/2012 6:04:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'll be perfectly honest, and critical as possible, and say this is a step in the wrong direction.

Looking at the market, how many proper, "professional" (I use the term loosely, but still) debating sites are there? Sites that can accomodate debating, LD debating, and plausibly BP and other debates? This is basically it: it dominates the segment. But the other sectors of the "post a comment and vote" kind of debating is so saturated for such a niche that it seems pointless - and it is a millimetre away from just being a forum led site, rather than debate led site.

The team debating and such is what I am looking to moreso than other issues. And I'd also enjoy a "restriction" for those who can use the quick debate so you can have, say, people with 5 proper debates+ before using it.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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6/22/2012 6:05:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Oh, and I forgot to say: the majority of this site's users are people who just come on for a week or two, post a pointlessly bad argument, then leave. This seems to be a way of attracting new users, which is fine, but not retaining them, which is a million times more important as of now.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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6/22/2012 6:13:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
And anyone who doesn't think that this will happen, I reccomend going on that site. Let's get a contentious point: the existence of God.

http://debates.juggle.com...

Top arguments:

"Yes, God exists and, if you do not believe now, you will after you are dead. I believe that God exists. No matter how much scientists can explain about the universe, their "history" seems to stop at the Big Bang. They can not say for certain why the Big Bang happened. There are too many people that believe in some kind of higher power for the whole species to be wrong, and there not being something larger than us..."

I am not saying God is a God-of-the-gaps, but this is such a clear application of it that it is ludicrous.

"I'm pretty sure The most exciting thing is whatever you write on this page, whatever you believe or not... He does believe in you..."

Does this need comment?

"I believe the existence of God is evident in creation, and in the inherent good found in people. I believe that, when we consider the complexity of living things, the existence of a creator is made evident. I fully doubt that creation has happened by chance. While it is true that evil forces are at work and bad things happen, the good in people is made evident in their response to such situations. I believe the positive, caring response is evidence that a good God does exist and is at work in his people."

I can just about scavenge out a moral argument, or transcendental argument, from this. Maybe. Oh, and the teleological argument, which is basically rebutted by a "I don't believe that" due to the lack of strength of the argument.

"It is absolutely inane to say that everything came from nothing, rather than from God."

Don't care enough to go much further in that comment: It's really not much relevance to call someone insane, then bugger off.

"I do believe that a higher power or God does exist due to the existence of things like love and beauty. It is difficult, even if it is logical, to believe that there is no God."

A very crude transcendental argument, but is closer to the non-deity of Plato's demiurge than God.

"YES!!! GOD DOES EXIST! If God didn't exist we wouldn't be here. Somthing can't come from nothing. We have proof right under our nose. It's the HOLY BIBLE."

Cool Beans.

"The idea that something came from nothing is ludicrous."

Cool beans.

I'd continue, with the atheist side, but the majority of them are just the same thing reiterated over and over, rather than new arguments. It'd be better as something else altogether.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/22/2012 6:15:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
lmao at the God exists arguments. R_A was right in saying there's village theism and village atheism.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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6/22/2012 6:16:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/22/2012 6:15:12 PM, 000ike wrote:
lmao at the God exists arguments. R_A was right in saying there's village theism and village atheism.

Did you make new phrases up? Should that be "cultural atheists" and theists, or... I'm just confused.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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6/22/2012 6:17:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Let's hope that they don't degrade into flame wars where beliefs, personal backgrounds, etc. are the bastions of justification.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/22/2012 6:18:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/22/2012 6:16:23 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 6/22/2012 6:15:12 PM, 000ike wrote:
lmao at the God exists arguments. R_A was right in saying there's village theism and village atheism.

Did you make new phrases up? Should that be "cultural atheists" and theists, or... I'm just confused.

no...village, as in unrefined and completely perverse. I got the wording from R_A
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
UnStupendousMan
Posts: 3,475
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6/22/2012 6:29:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/22/2012 6:17:22 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
Let's hope that they don't degrade into flame wars where beliefs, personal backgrounds, etc. are the bastions of justification.

Amen; however, most of the site are not trolls and those who flame war with logical fallacies, and I really do not see such an army marching here. Although I could be wrong.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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6/22/2012 7:51:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/22/2012 6:13:15 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
And anyone who doesn't think that this will happen, I reccomend going on that site. Let's get a contentious point: the existence of God.

http://debates.juggle.com...

Top arguments:

"Yes, God exists and, if you do not believe now, you will after you are dead. I believe that God exists. No matter how much scientists can explain about the universe, their "history" seems to stop at the Big Bang. They can not say for certain why the Big Bang happened. There are too many people that believe in some kind of higher power for the whole species to be wrong, and there not being something larger than us..."

I am not saying God is a God-of-the-gaps, but this is such a clear application of it that it is ludicrous.

"I'm pretty sure The most exciting thing is whatever you write on this page, whatever you believe or not... He does believe in you..."

Does this need comment?

"I believe the existence of God is evident in creation, and in the inherent good found in people. I believe that, when we consider the complexity of living things, the existence of a creator is made evident. I fully doubt that creation has happened by chance. While it is true that evil forces are at work and bad things happen, the good in people is made evident in their response to such situations. I believe the positive, caring response is evidence that a good God does exist and is at work in his people."

I can just about scavenge out a moral argument, or transcendental argument, from this. Maybe. Oh, and the teleological argument, which is basically rebutted by a "I don't believe that" due to the lack of strength of the argument.

"It is absolutely inane to say that everything came from nothing, rather than from God."

Don't care enough to go much further in that comment: It's really not much relevance to call someone insane, then bugger off.

"I do believe that a higher power or God does exist due to the existence of things like love and beauty. It is difficult, even if it is logical, to believe that there is no God."

A very crude transcendental argument, but is closer to the non-deity of Plato's demiurge than God.

"YES!!! GOD DOES EXIST! If God didn't exist we wouldn't be here. Somthing can't come from nothing. We have proof right under our nose. It's the HOLY BIBLE."

Cool Beans.

"The idea that something came from nothing is ludicrous."

Cool beans.

I'd continue, with the atheist side, but the majority of them are just the same thing reiterated over and over, rather than new arguments. It'd be better as something else altogether.

I believe that it would yield a different result here. While there are a lot of people that engage in the oh so common "us vs them" political mentality, there are also quite a few that can look beyond that.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Chrysippus
Posts: 2,173
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6/23/2012 12:20:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Julia, I think this is a great idea. Bravo.

The one possible sticking place is the integration with social networking sites. For most people, this is great; I understand quite a few of them already share facebook pages and that sort of thing. I just ask that, for those of us without profiles on facebook/twitter/or whatever, that the service still be usable without a login from one of those sites.

Again, thank you and Juggle for continuing to update this site.
Cavete mea inexorabilis legiones mimus!
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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6/23/2012 4:37:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/22/2012 6:18:03 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/22/2012 6:16:23 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 6/22/2012 6:15:12 PM, 000ike wrote:
lmao at the God exists arguments. R_A was right in saying there's village theism and village atheism.

Did you make new phrases up? Should that be "cultural atheists" and theists, or... I'm just confused.

no...village, as in unrefined and completely perverse. I got the wording from R_A

Ahh, OK. And by make new phrases up, that's not a criticism fyi.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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6/23/2012 4:54:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Sounds good. Let's try to avoid contributing to them in a way that makes 'quick' = 'shallow' like the example from juggle.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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6/23/2012 6:43:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/22/2012 4:07:06 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
This looks to be amazing, though one question on it. As we know, it is difficult to get people to read debates that only have 8 arguments (4 for each side). If this is "too popular" than it risks having dozens of arguments for each side. How do we get people to read them all to vote accurately? And what would determine which arguments are presented first (I'd bet that most people will only read the first few and only vote amoung those, rather than reading all).

I agree, there seem to be some challenges with this idea. They seem to have a platform ready, so I guess we'll just wait and see. I have to say, I'm not too crazy about this idea. I prefer the competitive and personal nature of a one on one debate. Each debater knows what they have to refute to win, and the boxing style back and fourths can get very interesting. This sounds like each debater will be striving to provide the "best arguments", so in other words the debater who most people agree with wins.
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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5/27/2013 8:46:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/27/2013 6:31:13 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Bump.

Why?

Why?
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
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5/27/2013 11:18:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/27/2013 8:46:22 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 5/27/2013 6:31:13 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Bump.

Why?

Why?
The repetition.

Cuze the idea is a good one, & it seems to have been forgotten about.
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
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