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One week Time to Argue

Raisor
Posts: 4,459
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6/30/2012 1:36:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What is the community's position on adding an option for a one week response time. The current maximum is 72 hours.

Currently I simply do not have time Monday through Friday to research and write quality arguments, but would like to spend some time on the weekends contributing to the site. I also found this was the case while in school, that three days became a difficult deadline to meet.

I apologize in advance if this has been a topic recently discussed, I havent been very active here lately.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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6/30/2012 1:38:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I would be for this. Somtimes, people don't have time, and more time would be awesome.

I'm also for extending the character limit.
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16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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6/30/2012 1:39:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Too long. 5 day limit. What if you get an FFer? Then you have to wait for weeks.

Character limit should be 10,000 too.
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Raisor
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6/30/2012 1:47:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 1:39:44 PM, 16kadams wrote:
Too long. 5 day limit. What if you get an FFer? Then you have to wait for weeks.

Character limit should be 10,000 too.

Fortunately if this concerns you you could simply refrain from accepting debates with long time limits.

5 day doesnt solve the problem for people with time mostly on sat/sun (assuming Im not the only one in that position).
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/30/2012 1:49:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Debates aren't the most interesting thing in the world. I think stretching it out any longer than it is will make them a little more slow and dull, especially if everyone starts doing 1 week debates....which I anticipate they will (people tend to give themselves as much time possible, even if they could do it in less).

I think this site hit the nail on the head for a delicate balance between character limit and time limit. Anything too long or too slow will really rob the site of something essential.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
16kadams
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6/30/2012 2:16:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 1:47:47 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:39:44 PM, 16kadams wrote:
Too long. 5 day limit. What if you get an FFer? Then you have to wait for weeks.

Character limit should be 10,000 too.

Fortunately if this concerns you you could simply refrain from accepting debates with long time limits.

The longer the limit the more popular it will become. People won't accept a debate with 3, and people will nearly always make a week long version. Like 3 dayers are most common as its the longest.

Also it would make things really drawn out.


5 day doesnt solve the problem for people with time mostly on sat/sun (assuming Im not the only one in that position).
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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6/30/2012 2:25:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 2:16:25 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:47:47 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:39:44 PM, 16kadams wrote:
Too long. 5 day limit. What if you get an FFer? Then you have to wait for weeks.

Character limit should be 10,000 too.

Fortunately if this concerns you you could simply refrain from accepting debates with long time limits.

The longer the limit the more popular it will become. People won't accept a debate with 3, and people will nearly always make a week long version. Like 3 dayers are most common as its the longest.

Also it would make things really drawn out.


5 day doesnt solve the problem for people with time mostly on sat/sun (assuming Im not the only one in that position).

So your complaint is that it would be too popular?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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6/30/2012 2:45:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 2:25:16 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 6/30/2012 2:16:25 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:47:47 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:39:44 PM, 16kadams wrote:
Too long. 5 day limit. What if you get an FFer? Then you have to wait for weeks.

Character limit should be 10,000 too.

Fortunately if this concerns you you could simply refrain from accepting debates with long time limits.

The longer the limit the more popular it will become. People won't accept a debate with 3, and people will nearly always make a week long version. Like 3 dayers are most common as its the longest.

Also it would make things really drawn out.


5 day doesnt solve the problem for people with time mostly on sat/sun (assuming Im not the only one in that position).

So your complaint is that it would be too popular?

More like too widespread.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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6/30/2012 3:32:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 2:45:38 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 6/30/2012 2:25:16 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 6/30/2012 2:16:25 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:47:47 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:39:44 PM, 16kadams wrote:
Too long. 5 day limit. What if you get an FFer? Then you have to wait for weeks.

Character limit should be 10,000 too.

Fortunately if this concerns you you could simply refrain from accepting debates with long time limits.

The longer the limit the more popular it will become. People won't accept a debate with 3, and people will nearly always make a week long version. Like 3 dayers are most common as its the longest.

Also it would make things really drawn out.


5 day doesnt solve the problem for people with time mostly on sat/sun (assuming Im not the only one in that position).

So your complaint is that it would be too popular?

More like too widespread.

That's because people want longer options. If Juggle opened up a ton of options, up to 30 days, I'll guarantee that 30 periods will not be the most popular.

Aren't you suppose to be about free market and such?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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6/30/2012 3:36:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think it's just weird to start a debate and have it end 2 months later.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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6/30/2012 3:52:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Longer debates can be linked off of site if needs be, then posted onto the site. However, it'd be nice if the long debates were able to be posted.

I think that this would be a good addition. The criticism of waiting ages for people to FF seems pointless tbh, as its a minor inconvenience at best, and completely irrelevant at worst. The question is though: what are our priorities? I think that team debates and official ruleset debates are up there as well.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

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16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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6/30/2012 4:17:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 3:36:56 PM, bluesteel wrote:
I think it's just weird to start a debate and have it end 2 months later.

Agreed
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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6/30/2012 4:18:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 3:32:41 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 6/30/2012 2:45:38 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 6/30/2012 2:25:16 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 6/30/2012 2:16:25 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:47:47 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 6/30/2012 1:39:44 PM, 16kadams wrote:
Too long. 5 day limit. What if you get an FFer? Then you have to wait for weeks.

Character limit should be 10,000 too.

Fortunately if this concerns you you could simply refrain from accepting debates with long time limits.

The longer the limit the more popular it will become. People won't accept a debate with 3, and people will nearly always make a week long version. Like 3 dayers are most common as its the longest.

Also it would make things really drawn out.


5 day doesnt solve the problem for people with time mostly on sat/sun (assuming Im not the only one in that position).

So your complaint is that it would be too popular?

More like too widespread.

That's because people want longer options. If Juggle opened up a ton of options, up to 30 days, I'll guarantee that 30 periods will not be the most popular.

It may. Based on this forum one week would thrive.


Aren't you suppose to be about free market and such?

In real life, not on a website.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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6/30/2012 4:24:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't support it for the same reason I don't support the option to have a 3 day voting period. I don't want to keep checking to make sure that the limit is not set to a month.
thett3
Posts: 14,338
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6/30/2012 4:36:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I support this. I would never engage in such a long debate, but people should be allowed to if they wish.
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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6/30/2012 4:40:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Really, in the case of forfeiters, what is the difference of saying "my opponent forfeited so extend arguments" once a week vs once every three days?

My only concern would be that there wouldn't be forfeits, but people would use the maximum time before posting. If too much time passes, then you risk losing interest in the debate and not putting in full effort. Or people will get tired of waiting for the next round and get involved in too many debates at once. Good debaters will have half-assed debates and forfiets and quality will go down.

But I don't think that 5 or even 7 days would be too long to cause those issues.
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bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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6/30/2012 5:11:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I agree with Ore_Ele, except I *do* lose interest in debates, even with 3 day delays. I take a debate, wanting to argue it for a bit. Then, a week and a half later, I'm still debating something that no longer really interested me past my initial research.

I find researching and educating myself fun, not responding to every little inane argument.

I guess people can have the option if they want, but a lot of users might use 7 days as a default "just in case" they have on time. We all procrastinate and want the maximum amount of time to do stuff, even though we *tell* ourselves we'll do it right away. I can see this leading to too many debates having really long delay periods.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
16kadams
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6/30/2012 5:29:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 4:40:45 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Really, in the case of forfeiters, what is the difference of saying "my opponent forfeited so extend arguments" once a week vs once every three days?

My only concern would be that there wouldn't be forfeits, but people would use the maximum time before posting. If too much time passes, then you risk losing interest in the debate and not putting in full effort. Or people will get tired of waiting for the next round and get involved in too many debates at once. Good debaters will have half-assed debates and forfiets and quality will go down.

But I don't think that 5 or even 7 days would be too long to cause those issues.

I concede, though I would never use it.
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
TUF
Posts: 21,309
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6/30/2012 7:26:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 1:39:44 PM, 16kadams wrote:
Too long. 5 day limit. What if you get an FFer? Then you have to wait for weeks.

Character limit should be 10,000 too.

Nix on the character limit.
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UnStupendousMan
Posts: 3,475
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6/30/2012 7:40:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I agree with Blue. I get bored when my opponent has delayed his (or her) argument to such a degree that other things have entered my mind and are now more interesting than what I was initially debating. And there is the issue with forfeitters--it would take that much longer to wait out the person who isn't going to post an argument anyway. However, I wouldn't be up in arms about this, but I just wouldn't accept (or instigate) debates with one week argument preparing times, just as one doesn't accept (or instigate) debates with half-hour or hour long argument prep times. I doubt that it would be the most popular option, because debates that have that long between arguments are going to be, well, slow. People will get bored with waiting for the person to create the case.

As a side note: I want 48 hour argument prep times.
Contradiction
Posts: 409
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6/30/2012 9:22:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 1:36:24 PM, Raisor wrote:
What is the community's position on adding an option for a one week response time. The current maximum is 72 hours.

Currently I simply do not have time Monday through Friday to research and write quality arguments, but would like to spend some time on the weekends contributing to the site. I also found this was the case while in school, that three days became a difficult deadline to meet.

I apologize in advance if this has been a topic recently discussed, I havent been very active here lately.

It's something I'd support.
larztheloser
Posts: 857
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7/1/2012 12:14:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'd support it IF, but only if, votes can have more characters first. There is no way a 5-round, 8000-character debate can be analysed by voters in 500 characters, and the longer times and character counts are the more difficult this task for voters becomes.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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7/1/2012 1:11:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 7:40:32 PM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
I agree with Blue. I get bored when my opponent has delayed his (or her) argument to such a degree that other things have entered my mind and are now more interesting than what I was initially debating. And there is the issue with forfeitters--it would take that much longer to wait out the person who isn't going to post an argument anyway. However, I wouldn't be up in arms about this, but I just wouldn't accept (or instigate) debates with one week argument preparing times, just as one doesn't accept (or instigate) debates with half-hour or hour long argument prep times. I doubt that it would be the most popular option, because debates that have that long between arguments are going to be, well, slow. People will get bored with waiting for the person to create the case.

As a side note: I want 48 hour argument prep times.

There are 48 hour prep times. And if you don't want to do a 1 week debate, then you wouldn't need to accept one. What's the problem again?
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

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Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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7/2/2012 12:14:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I would not have a problem if the site implemented a 7 day argument period as long as it is not the default. I don't think anyone likes the idea of waiting a week to hear their opponent's arguments or ending a debate 2 months after it started, so if the instigator picks this option then it is most likely because they are too busy to debate with a 3 day period. At least this way they are being given a chance to contribute to the site.

I certainly would not support a 10,000 character limit. 8,000 character rounds are already enough to put the reader to sleep in most debates, another 2,000 will not help. Part of the skill in debating is to make your point in as few characters as possible. As a debater your focus should be on the reader's perspective, not yours.
Double_R
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7/2/2012 12:23:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/1/2012 12:14:34 AM, larztheloser wrote:
I'd support it IF, but only if, votes can have more characters first. There is no way a 5-round, 8000-character debate can be analysed by voters in 500 characters, and the longer times and character counts are the more difficult this task for voters becomes.

I'd say 500 is enough. An RFD is simply a reason for decision, not a full analysis of the debate. And just like my comment before, it is an appreciated skill to say what you need in as few characters as possible. But I find that when people provide long RFD's in the comments it usually turns into is a complete recap of every argument. I just read the debate, I don't need to be told what was said.
Ren
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7/2/2012 2:12:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 1:36:24 PM, Raisor wrote:
What is the community's position on adding an option for a one week response time. The current maximum is 72 hours.

Currently I simply do not have time Monday through Friday to research and write quality arguments, but would like to spend some time on the weekends contributing to the site. I also found this was the case while in school, that three days became a difficult deadline to meet.

I apologize in advance if this has been a topic recently discussed, I havent been very active here lately.

I was thinking about this, and instead of having debates that last longer than a month (which is how long such debates will likely last), how about we have an option for extension?

We set it at the max time, and if 2 days just aren't enough, you apply for an extension for another two days. If your opponent accepts, then you have two more days to post an argument.

Yes?

I think the extension idea might be effective...
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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7/2/2012 2:14:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I mean, it would help to minimize forfeiting time-wasters without looking like one yourself, if that isn't your intention.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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7/2/2012 4:02:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I would most likely do a lot of serious debates if there were a 5-7 day option- especially when I'm taking classes.

I approve!
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phantom
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7/2/2012 4:25:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'd be up for adding two or three more longer options, one of them being one week. I don't think I'd have ever used that option in any of my previous debates but I'll be quite busy come fall so that would maybe allow me to actually not have to leave this site.
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