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Drops & Concessions

mark.marrocco
Posts: 236
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7/18/2012 2:52:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Hey everyone, I'm still pretty ripe, so bear with me through any misunderstandings I might still have. Now, sometimes the conditions of a debate specify that "drops" are concessions. That seems straightforward at first, but how do we determine what exactly constitutes a drop? e.g. If I address the relevance of a point or contention in the early rounds, but wait to address the arguments & evidence provided to support it at a later point, then I haven't actually dropped that particular point yet have I? What if I disagree when my opponent claims that I've made a drop? Do I argue that within the debate, and continue as if I hadn't dropped? Or does merely claiming that I've dropped something actually establish that I have? That doesn't seem right to me, so any input or insight would be greatly appreciated at this point. Thanks!
"Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence."
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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7/18/2012 3:04:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/18/2012 2:52:10 PM, mark.marrocco wrote:
Hey everyone, I'm still pretty ripe, so bear with me through any misunderstandings I might still have. Now, sometimes the conditions of a debate specify that "drops" are concessions. That seems straightforward at first, but how do we determine what exactly constitutes a drop? e.g. If I address the relevance of a point or contention in the early rounds, but wait to address the arguments & evidence provided to support it at a later point, then I haven't actually dropped that particular point yet have I? What if I disagree when my opponent claims that I've made a drop? Do I argue that within the debate, and continue as if I hadn't dropped? Or does merely claiming that I've dropped something actually establish that I have? That doesn't seem right to me, so any input or insight would be greatly appreciated at this point. Thanks!

Welcome to debate.org. A "drop" is an argument that you failed to address in the round or conceded. For example, if we were debating and you responded to my contention 1, 2, 3, and 5 but failed to respond to contention 4, we would cal that a "drop."

A concession is if you agree or concede to contention 4. For example, if you stated that you "agree with me on contention 4", we would say that you "conceded" that contention.
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CiRrK
Posts: 670
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7/18/2012 3:50:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
You are probably referring to our debate Mark.

A drop is any argument that was not responded to, which includes a whole contention or even evidence cited as a warrant for the contention.
CiRrK
Posts: 670
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7/18/2012 4:21:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/18/2012 3:50:04 PM, CiRrK wrote:
You are probably referring to our debate Mark.

A drop is any argument that was not responded to, which includes a whole contention or even evidence cited as a warrant for the contention.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

"An argument is normally considered dropped if it is not answered in the speech in which the opposing team has the first opportunity to answer it."

Im guessing you have not done competitive debate before?
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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7/18/2012 5:16:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
There is no exact formula for determining exactly what constitutes a dropped point, it is at times a matter of judgment for the voters. While some cases are blatant and obvious, others are not. Say for example your opponent makes a set of arguments, you then respond by challenging the basis from which all of their arguments derived, in that case you did not drop any of their arguments. However your opponent would typically claim you did drop them, so you would have to focus on explaining why your argument negated his.

So the simple answer is yes, if your opponent claims you dropped their argument you absolutely need to respond to it. Failure to respond is just dropping the argument that you dropped his argument, therefore he wins the argument that you dropped his argument. Got it?

And also, depending on the circumstances (number of rounds, reason for the drop, etc...) failure to respond to an argument right away is a dropped argument. Many new debaters often try to "save" their arguments for the end when their opponent will have little chance to respond to it, this is the impression you give when you do that. Make all your arguments early, so that both debaters have an adequate opportunity to establish their case.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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7/18/2012 5:24:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I thought this would make a good example of what I was just saying when it comes to debaters having to argue over whether an argument was dropped. In this debate I made an argument I felt negated my opponents case but he claims I did not even address it. Sometimes the voters have to decide...
http://www.debate.org...
mark.marrocco
Posts: 236
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7/20/2012 2:24:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/18/2012 3:04:23 PM, Microsuck wrote:
At 7/18/2012 2:52:10 PM, mark.marrocco wrote:
Hey everyone, I'm still pretty ripe, so bear with me through any misunderstandings I might still have. Now, sometimes the conditions of a debate specify that "drops" are concessions. That seems straightforward at first, but how do we determine what exactly constitutes a drop? e.g. If I address the relevance of a point or contention in the early rounds, but wait to address the arguments & evidence provided to support it at a later point, then I haven't actually dropped that particular point yet have I? What if I disagree when my opponent claims that I've made a drop? Do I argue that within the debate, and continue as if I hadn't dropped? Or does merely claiming that I've dropped something actually establish that I have? That doesn't seem right to me, so any input or insight would be greatly appreciated at this point. Thanks!

Welcome to debate.org. A "drop" is an argument that you failed to address in the round or conceded. For example, if we were debating and you responded to my contention 1, 2, 3, and 5 but failed to respond to contention 4, we would cal that a "drop."

A concession is if you agree or concede to contention 4. For example, if you stated that you "agree with me on contention 4", we would say that you "conceded" that contention.

Thank you Micro, but yes I understood what each of those words meant, I was more interested in the criteria for judging what constituted a drop that would occur in a concession, but that condition actually appears to be an anomaly. Isn't that right, CiRrK? And no I have never done competitive debate, I came here out of the blue on my own free will.
"Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence."
mark.marrocco
Posts: 236
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7/20/2012 2:27:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/18/2012 5:16:11 PM, Double_R wrote:
There is no exact formula for determining exactly what constitutes a dropped point, it is at times a matter of judgment for the voters. While some cases are blatant and obvious, others are not. Say for example your opponent makes a set of arguments, you then respond by challenging the basis from which all of their arguments derived, in that case you did not drop any of their arguments. However your opponent would typically claim you did drop them, so you would have to focus on explaining why your argument negated his.

So the simple answer is yes, if your opponent claims you dropped their argument you absolutely need to respond to it. Failure to respond is just dropping the argument that you dropped his argument, therefore he wins the argument that you dropped his argument. Got it?

And also, depending on the circumstances (number of rounds, reason for the drop, etc...) failure to respond to an argument right away is a dropped argument. Many new debaters often try to "save" their arguments for the end when their opponent will have little chance to respond to it, this is the impression you give when you do that. Make all your arguments early, so that both debaters have an adequate opportunity to establish their case.

O.K. yes, thank you. I've applied your strategy generally and will remember it in the future. I don't think I'll ever try to be that sneaky about it so I'm not too worried about the last part. Although that does bring up another topic I might need clarified...
"Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence."